Sensibility of converting 1957 172 to IFR panel?

I have a close friend with a 1961 172 with a single Garmin 430W in it. It's not my choice of an IFR platform but frankly he gets more IFR time in it than I do. He does however have a vacuum pump (and for reasons I won't go into here, I'd not suggest ever planning an IFR flight with just venturis). Of course he is selective in the IFR he plans. His plane has other reasons it's not a tremendous IFR platform, the biggest is range. We both left the GSO area one time, me heading to CJR and him going up near Baltimore. I'm looking at my ground speed and note that I'm showing 90 knots against a 135 or so TAS. I figure he's having a lot of fun. He bails around Richmond and decides to drive.
 
Just think....

Flying IFR is the reason they invented de-ice equipment.
 
James331 said:
Why?

There are some things I tell my students to commit to memory (lost comms procedures etc) other things I tell them not to waste the mental hard drive space on, required equipment is once such item.

Just look it up.
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I have found (just a personal observation) the more you can quote chapter and verse to the examiner, be it private or ATP, without looking it up, the easier and faster the oral goes.

Of COURSE you are allowed to look things up, but required equipment ought to be one of the things you know off the top of your head. The BRIGHT student says, here's what I remember (list, list, list) but I'd like to check my memory against 91.2xx.
 
jimmyjack said:
91.205 makes no mention, or excludes venturi driven equipment. "Well, I'll be...."

Are there other regs that I should scour that would be equally applicable to my situation?
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Pt. 23? The issue I would see is in certification for Known Icing conditions. Perhaps this has spread in 'cultural knowledge' improperly to all IFR use.:dunno:
 
jimmyjack said:
I think it's more that my II needs to see that I can shoot approaches, holds, etc before I get into the ground material. Anyone can learn ground, not everyone can fly instruments... maybe?
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After teaching both flying and engineering for 50 some years, I find both kinds ... those that can do the practical and have trouble with the theory/book, and vice versa. The teaching technique is far different for both.

And now and again (not very often) you get a gifted one that can do both easily.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
I have found (just a personal observation) the more you can quote chapter and verse to the examiner, be it private or ATP, without looking it up, the easier and faster the oral goes.

Of COURSE you are allowed to look things up, but required equipment ought to be one of the things you know off the top of your head. The BRIGHT student says, here's what I remember (list, list, list) but I'd like to check my memory against 91.2xx.
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I've had great luck with a heavily tabbed FAR put on the table infront of me, ya got to know weather, airspace, lost comms, etc, but for stuff like equipment for IFR I'll just flip to the tab and DPE and I can have a read along, most know this and don't feel like having reading time with applicants, just as long as the DPE knows you know where to find the answers. All the orals I've had and my students have had were rather painless.
 
The problem really with the old 172 is there wasn't a place on the engine for a vacuum pump. Think maybe was the 0-300c that provided a space. Having flown one with a Venturi system I don't think it would really be worth adding avionics and vacuum system. Without changing panel there is no good place to put a gps. My 172a was equipped for ifr with two nav-coms and adf. It was a great Vfr airplane but I wouldn't be very excited about flying it ifr in imc. I fly a great plane now that's equiped for ifr that has about every feature needed. Twin vacuum pumps, boots and heated prop and windshield, heated pitot and static and all the avionics and autopilot. And I have and do use all of those systems in imc and icing conditions. Would I do anything close with a ifr equiped early 172. No. Not even excited to run into ice in plane I have. But it happens.
 
Like ANY avionics upgrade - it is much cheaper to simply have the prior owner do it.

Thus - adding the standard 6 pack [or rearranging whats there] 2 VOR's and or a GPS/VOR, 2 radios, etc etc etc - plus the antenna and do dads, plus ADS-B compliance because it makes ZERO sense to spend any money right now without doing that -

Will be at least $30,000. At least. Avionics shops wire everything in gold these days -

Take the value of your airplane - add $35,000 most likely - what can you buy?

Thats the easy way to look at it financially.
 
James331 said:
I've had great luck with a heavily tabbed FAR put on the table infront of me, ya got to know weather, airspace, lost comms, etc, but for stuff like equipment for IFR I'll just flip to the tab and DPE and I can have a read along, most know this and don't feel like having reading time with applicants, just as long as the DPE knows you know where to find the answers. All the orals I've had and my students have had were rather painless.
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My heavily tabbed FAR/AIM was front and center during my private oral. We didn't refer to it a single time. All my papers were laid out perfectly straight, clean right angles, tabbed FAR/AIM front and center. I think that's all it took, really.
 
Tom-D said:
The 57 simply does not have the panel space to do a decent IFR lay out. radios are low in the panel which causes the pilot to widen their scan.

There is a modification to switch to a "Y" type yoke and a square panel like the later modes but it is expensive. and a lot of work.
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Would an Aspen fit?

Here's a photo of a 1957 C172 panel that I found on Trade-a-Plane:

jhimage
 
NoHeat said:
Would an Aspen fit?

Here's a photo of a 1957 C172 panel that I found on Trade-a-Plane:
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So far as I can see (and the left edge of the photo is chopped off) this aircraft is IFR legal with instruments with ONE exception. What is it?

(That MIGHT be it hiding next to the altimeter but I can't really see it.)

Jim
 
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weirdjim said:
So far as I can see (and the left edge of the photo is chopped off) this aircraft is IFR legal with instruments with ONE exception. What is it?

(That MIGHT be it hiding next to the altimeter but I can't really see it.)

Jim
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Looks like a clock...
 
This probably would've helped from Post 1. Here's my panel. This was taken the day I purchased the plane. I've velcro'd two Casio stopwatches to the panel. The Edo Aire nav/com is basically inop. NAV works, COM sometimes. Never tried the LORAN. MK12D works fine.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjf25rp1ychkols/panelanon.jpg?dl=0
 

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I found a POH online for a 1959 C172. It says this:

OPERATIONS AUTHORIZED.

Your Cessna 172 with standard equipment as certificated under CAA Type Certificate No. 3Al2 is approved for day and night operation under VFR.

Additional optional equipment is available to increase its utility and to make it authorized for use under IFR day and night.
​
Interestingly, it also says this, about using it for an airline:

An owner of a properly equipped 172 is eligible to obtain approval for its operation on single engine scheduled airline service on VFR.​
 
jimmyjack said:
This probably would've helped from Post 1. Here's my panel. This was taken the day I purchased the plane. I've velcro'd two Casio stopwatches to the panel. The Edo Aire nav/com is basically inop. NAV works, COM sometimes. Never tried the LORAN. MK12D works fine.
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Keep the 12D, dump the loran and edo aire nav/com, with head. add the 400 series Garmin in the space provided when the edo are was removed, with its cdi in the nav head hole.move the transponder over to he space where the loran came out.
 
Tom-D said:
Keep the 12D, dump the loran and edo aire nav/com, with head. add the 400 series Garmin in the space provided when the edo are was removed, with its cdi in the nav head hole.move the transponder over to he space where the loran came out.
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Perfect.

Jim
 
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