Searching for my first plane; Am I doing this wrong?

CapeCodFlyer

CapeCodFlyer

Pre-Flight
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Ft. Lauderdale/No. Truro, MA
Display Name
Display name:
Moe L.
I'm a fairly new ASEL, with 150 hours in my logbook, and I'm ready to take the plunge and buy my first aircraft. I've read as much information as I could find about buying a plane (AOPA and other sites), spent hours lurking here (great info and entertainment, btw), checked the Diamond forums, the Cardinal Flyers, the COPA, and the Piper and Cessna owners sites. I've defined my mission, have my budget, spoken with insurance brokers, and located hangars.

Once or twice a day, I review Controller, Aero Trader, Barnstormers, and Trade-A-Plane.

Once a plane catches my attention my approach is to: 1. Find out if an airplane is still available. 2. Request information from the seller in the form of a spec sheet and pictures. 3. If I like what I see, spend some time with the seller discussing the plane and obtaining additional information. 4. Assuming all prior steps are in order, request copies of the logs. 5. If the logs are in order, make an offer to the seller subject to an inspection by an A&P or other inspection service. 6. Escrow services, title search, etc. 7. Pay the seller (cash transaction) and happily fly away.:goofy:

Sound okay so far? Well, why can't i get anyone to respond to my inquiries??? The ads I've responded to include statements such as "It's Gotta Go!" and "Accepting Offers". Despite my sending emails asking if the plane is still for sale, nobody has responded. Is the market so robust that sellers can ignore potential buyers? I just don't get it...

Any suggestions from you "seasoned" folks on here would be much appreciated.
 
Everything is fake on the internet. Try airport bulletin boards or better yet tell your old CFI you are looking for a plane. Tell your neighbors too, never know who knows a pilot. Maybe spam filters are catching your emails? Try calling?
 
You just emailing or placing phone calls too.


I call before I emailed, aviation folks tend to respond better to phone calls than emails in my experince.

Also check out ASO.

Just bought my plane off controller, plane before that barnstormers, people always responded to my calls :dunno:


I've also never used a escrow or title search.

Just get the FAA CD for 5 bucks, has all the title info on there, as well as all the other reg info (past to present), 337s etc.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...on/aircraft_registry/copies_aircraft_records/

I all is in order, write up a sales agreement (AOPA has a template), give em a deposit, prebuy and annual goes well, pay the balance, collect my bill of sale and release of leins if needed.
 
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I monitored Trade-a-plane, Barnstormers, and The Controller while searching for my plane. I did this daily over the internet. My friend, who is an AP and has more certifications than I can shake a stick at. He found a great Archer for sale in New Jersey, on The Controller. He made all the contact for me, asked all the questions and I scheduled the trip up for both of us, from Tampa. He inspected the logs with a fine tooth comb, and then did a complete check of the plane, inside the skins that had access panels, and the engine. After receiving his approval and a title search, I bought the plane and we flew it down to Tampa. That was nearly two months ago. I've been very happy with it and have had zero issues with it.

My cost on this, airfare, hotel, meals. He has done this for over 30+ planes for friends. My advice, find someone you can truly trust to check it out.
 
I had fairly good luck with emailing off the usual websites. I did inquire on a few that never responded as well. If the ad if freshly posted, I think your gonna get in contact. The older ads are the most not responded.

I tried to buy a plane from a broker and he never emailed or called back for two weeks. When he FINALLY. Answers his phone, he says....oh. I just sold it on Tuesday. I told him what I think of his business communications skills and hung up on him. It was exactly what I wanted so I was ****ed....


Just stay at it. I bought mine sight unseen with a full annual and pics of every detail. I was fortunate the seller is as anal retentive as I am, and so were the previous owners as well. The books were outstanding and docs and receipts for all work done.

I will say I had the best contact luck from posts on Barnstormers. Seems that Controller, trade a plane, ASO are most brokers with a few private sellers mixed in. You are working around their schedule where as private sellers are more motivated to sell IMHO.
 
Last few planes I bought I bought sight unseen and had them delivered. My thought is if the price is good, the owner will deliver and pics look good buy it. If you don't like it sell it so someone else for $10,000 more.
I know I think different than everyone else :)
 
When I sell a plane, I ignore any email. I know that 1 out of 200 will be an actual buyer with money to spend, and the other 199 will be some kind of harvester of emails, or a spambot, or something.

Might be an age thing, but pilots and particularly plane owners are an older generation, and we like phone calls. Call and chat with the seller, and let him ramble a bit. Know your target plane and make specific inquiries that show you know that make and model. For a Cardinal, that might include asking about the door stops, and the flying tail(whatev). I wouldn't ask for the logs to be sent out until I had skin in the game. No way am I sending copies of my logs, which are very big out anywhere, but the buyer is welcome to come look, and if there's something specific, I will be happy to look it up and report back i.e. AD 97-xx-yy done on what date?

You didn't mention, but it also sounds like you are looking at brokered airplanes. That's the worst. They only care about one thing - the commission. If you want to buy a brokered plane, you need to have a date, time and location where your agent will show up to inspect. Once that's done, they pretty much expect you to make an offer and write the check. Brokers don't have time to teach you all about the specifics of an airplane, and they generally don't have the logs anyway, those are at the owners house, locked up in the safe. Stop dealing with brokers and your life will be much easier.
 
Would it profit you to rent until you have around four to five hundred hours ? Rent and Talk to various pilots , fly in different aircraft, etc. you might find what you bought was not what you wanted later on. Just a thought. I always bought thru word of mouth, never thru a broker but that's just me.
 
We had a thread back a few months ago on my observations on Sellers. YOu are kinda going thru the same thing.

Many of them don't want to actually sell, they are losing their medical and trying to hang on to their last tangible toys of youth.

Others don't really know how to use a camera and upload/text/email pictures. Shocking, but that happened quite often.

Some of them are flat dishonest, despite having grandfatherly like grey hair and wearing hopelessly out of fashion clothes. They will flat out lie to you.

At the end of the day, I found a plane thru a mechanic I knew, I trusted, and he knew the plane. It was advertised but in 6 months, only one person came and looked at it.
 
Get that 172 for sale...John H. It sure looks like an outstanding beauty!
 
Moe, its a problem for sure. I can't tell you how many ads I've called on that either don't respond or if they do tell me the plane sold 10 months ago. You just have to keep plugging away or you might also consider a buyer's broker to find you something, they can cut through the BS.

BTW are you considering basing in Florida or Cape Cod or will the plane relocate seasonally. Are you bay side or Ocean side in Truro? Spent many a summer on Ballston Beach as well as Corn Hill and Fisher Beach.
 
One thing to consider, try not asking "is the plane still for sale". I know why we do this but as a seller it drives me nuts. If the ad is still up, assume the product is still for sale.

What gets my attention quicker is someone asking a specific question or two during the initial contact to get the conversation going.

As with all things, YMMV.
 
AdamZ said:
Moe, its a problem for sure. I can't tell you how many ads I've called on that either don't respond or if they do tell me the plane sold 10 months ago. You just have to keep plugging away or you might also consider a buyer's broker to find you something, they can cut through the BS.

BTW are you considering basing in Florida or Cape Cod or will the plane relocate seasonally. Are you bay side or Ocean side in Truro? Spent many a summer on Ballston Beach as well as Corn Hill and Fisher Beach.
Click to expand...

I think I may have finally found a C-182, but I will have to keep plugging to make it happen. My plan is to relocate the plane seasonally, hence the desire for a 182 so I don't get to my destination in time to leave again. ;) I'm on the bayside in Truro (Cold Storage Beach). I want to keep the plane in PVC during the summer.

Ballston, Corn Hill and Fisher are all great beaches! I love the solitude of North Truro! Summers are like heaven there.:yesnod:
 
I went through the same crap. I could not believe how people selling airplanes would act. so many A holes it blew my mind.

I called one guy, offered him full price (I wanted that plane and had already had 5 deals fall apart. I was anxious) and he accepted. Next day he was supposed to fly it to me to inspect it and I get a call saying its no longer for sale. Saying it was the last airplane he would ever own. blah blah blah..

My next one will be through a reputable company. good luck finding what your after.
 
JasonM said:
I called one guy, offered him full price (I wanted that plane and had already had 5 deals fall apart. I was anxious) and he accepted. Next day he was supposed to fly it to me to inspect it and I get a call saying its no longer for sale. Saying it was the last airplane he would ever own. blah blah blah.
Click to expand...

Seller's remorse, I know how he feels.
 
You need to be prepared to walk, if you show up with your trusted mechanic and he says it is a no go...

Take someone with you that will tell you this.

Be prepared to drop a grand or two on the trip, and then leave the POS where it is...
 
And, it is a business transaction, nothing more. You ain't trying to make a friend, nor an enemy. Just trying to exchange $$$ for aluminum.
 
Going through the same thing. myself and 4 others are looking for most likely a 182. But same thing. There is ALOT of junk out there people think is worth more, or you look at the dealers and see how much they want. It's not easy searching. And that is 5 of us looking daily.
 
CapeCodFlyer said:
I'm a fairly new ASEL, with 150 hours in my logbook, and I'm ready to take the plunge and buy my first aircraft. I've read as much information as I could find about buying a plane (AOPA and other sites), spent hours lurking here (great info and entertainment, btw), checked the Diamond forums, the Cardinal Flyers, the COPA, and the Piper and Cessna owners sites. I've defined my mission, have my budget, spoken with insurance brokers, and located hangars.

Once or twice a day, I review Controller, Aero Trader, Barnstormers, and Trade-A-Plane.

Once a plane catches my attention my approach is to: 1. Find out if an airplane is still available. 2. Request information from the seller in the form of a spec sheet and pictures. 3. If I like what I see, spend some time with the seller discussing the plane and obtaining additional information. 4. Assuming all prior steps are in order, request copies of the logs. 5. If the logs are in order, make an offer to the seller subject to an inspection by an A&P or other inspection service. 6. Escrow services, title search, etc. 7. Pay the seller (cash transaction) and happily fly away.:goofy:

Sound okay so far? Well, why can't i get anyone to respond to my inquiries??? The ads I've responded to include statements such as "It's Gotta Go!" and "Accepting Offers". Despite my sending emails asking if the plane is still for sale, nobody has responded. Is the market so robust that sellers can ignore potential buyers? I just don't get it...

Any suggestions from you "seasoned" folks on here would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Are you calling them? If you are in Ft Lauderdale, let me know and I'll see if I can help you out.
 
docmirror said:
When I sell a plane, I ignore any email. I know that 1 out of 200 will be an actual buyer with money to spend, and the other 199 will be some kind of harvester of emails, or a spambot, or something.

Might be an age thing, but pilots and particularly plane owners are an older generation, and we like phone calls. Call and chat with the seller, and let him ramble a bit. Know your target plane and make specific inquiries that show you know that make and model. For a Cardinal, that might include asking about the door stops, and the flying tail(whatev). I wouldn't ask for the logs to be sent out until I had skin in the game. No way am I sending copies of my logs, which are very big out anywhere, but the buyer is welcome to come look, and if there's something specific, I will be happy to look it up and report back i.e. AD 97-xx-yy done on what date?

You didn't mention, but it also sounds like you are looking at brokered airplanes. That's the worst. They only care about one thing - the commission. If you want to buy a brokered plane, you need to have a date, time and location where your agent will show up to inspect. Once that's done, they pretty much expect you to make an offer and write the check. Brokers don't have time to teach you all about the specifics of an airplane, and they generally don't have the logs anyway, those are at the owners house, locked up in the safe. Stop dealing with brokers and your life will be much easier.
Click to expand...

I can appreciate this post. And I certainly called around when I bought my plane.

However, I would not consider any plane without first reviewing the logs. I should clarify - I used Savvy - and I had them review the logs as well as myself.

I am now getting ready to buy my 2nd plane. This time I'll require the logs and the engine data before it could be considered.

I can't imagine putting money down without seeing logs first! Again, I get the whole "skin in the game" and I realize many people will never buy. But makes me cringe thinking I would put down hard earned cash without seeing logs first.

But that's just me...
 
EminiTrader said:
I can appreciate this post. And I certainly called around when I bought my plane.

However, I would not consider any plane without first reviewing the logs. I should clarify - I used Savvy - and I had them review the logs as well as myself.

I am now getting ready to buy my 2nd plane. This time I'll require the logs and the engine data before it could be considered.

I can't imagine putting money down without seeing logs first! Again, I get the whole "skin in the game" and I realize many people will never buy. But makes me cringe thinking I would put down hard earned cash without seeing logs first.

But that's just me...
Click to expand...

I like looking at the logs and plane together. Looking through the logs is a long tedious process that doesn't actually represent the plane well. For all the planes that I walk up to and eliminate in 15 minutes on condition, I'm not all that keen on digging through the logs before I see the plane.
 
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Thanks for all the helpful comments. Here is an update on my search...
I just returned from a weekend in the frozen north to view and inspect the C182P which had caught my attention. A broker had the listing and he was great to deal with. He arranged to transport the plane to an A&P of my choice for an inspection (doing this before I had even sent a deposit). I flew up there and arrived to watch over the shoulder of the A&P who gave me all the highs and lows. The plane had some damage history and I asked the A&P to specifically search that out to make sure the repairs were completed properly. I also asked the shop to check out the avionics to make sure they were all checked out. The A&P told me that this was the nicest P that he had ever had in his shop. The plane has had meticulous care and has been hangared for the past 12 years. Paint, interior and glass is like new, STOL, wheel pants and flap gap seals. Now for the best part... Aspen PFD, JPI EDM 930, Garmin 430 WAAS, Garmin 496, Century 2000 AP, Garmin GTX 327, PS Engineering PMA 8000B audio panel, and a 406 mhz ELT. It has a Narco nav/com as a backup and I'm going to replace it with a Garmin GNC 255a before I take delivery. Engine is mid-time and it's been about 100 hours STOH. The A&P had a few squawks consisting of a burnt out taxi light, two small scratches in the paint, and a very minor hangar rash on the tail.

As a bonus, I got to attend the Pats/Colts game last evening and the good guys won! :)

I'm very happy those other guys never responded to me. If they mistook me for a tire kicker, then I guess it was their loss. If they weren't serious about selling, then I'm glad I didn't waste my time with them. I was apprehensive about dealing with a broker, but the broker and the organization were nothing short of professional. The broker returned all my calls and kept me informed on the seller's response. The plane was priced fairly, and we completed the transaction fairly quickly after my initial offer.

I am one pretty happy camper right now.
 

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Congrats man that is awesome. Have fun with it.
 
Great looking plane.

Congrats on sorting thru the chaff to find the wheat.
 
Great Buy, I called a day after you purchased it and was sad to hear it was sold - snooze you lose

Enjoy your fine looking airplane
 
It is amazing you were able to purchase an airplane so quickly without all the drama displayed by some on this board. Say it ain't true that there are no airplanes available, no sellers with integrity, no qualified mechanics to perform prebuys. Again, totally amazing.

Congratulations on the new airplane.

Also good job proving that it is no where near as difficult to become an owner as some here have described.

WOW.
 
KA550 said:
It is amazing you were able to purchase an airplane so quickly without all the drama displayed by some on this board. Say it ain't true that there are no airplanes available, no sellers with integrity, no qualified mechanics to perform prebuys. Again, totally amazing.



Congratulations on the new airplane.



Also good job proving that it is no where near as difficult to become an owner as some here have described.



WOW.
Click to expand...

Women shouldn't be as difficult to hook up with as many a man has lamented, but some find it easier than others.
 
Try the phone first,sellers can get an idea if your serious. Too much junk over the net,e mail works better when your in negotiations.
 
frfly172 said:
Try the phone first,sellers can get an idea if your serious. Too much junk over the net,e mail works better when your in negotiations.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. Every airplane I've purchased started with a phone call.
 
CapeCodFlyer said:
Thanks for all the helpful comments. Here is an update on my search...
I just returned from a weekend in the frozen north to view and inspect the C182P which had caught my attention. A broker had the listing and he was great to deal with. He arranged to transport the plane to an A&P of my choice for an inspection (doing this before I had even sent a deposit). I flew up there and arrived to watch over the shoulder of the A&P who gave me all the highs and lows. The plane had some damage history and I asked the A&P to specifically search that out to make sure the repairs were completed properly. I also asked the shop to check out the avionics to make sure they were all checked out. The A&P told me that this was the nicest P that he had ever had in his shop. The plane has had meticulous care and has been hangared for the past 12 years. Paint, interior and glass is like new, STOL, wheel pants and flap gap seals. Now for the best part... Aspen PFD, JPI EDM 930, Garmin 430 WAAS, Garmin 496, Century 2000 AP, Garmin GTX 327, PS Engineering PMA 8000B audio panel, and a 406 mhz ELT. It has a Narco nav/com as a backup and I'm going to replace it with a Garmin GNC 255a before I take delivery. Engine is mid-time and it's been about 100 hours STOH. The A&P had a few squawks consisting of a burnt out taxi light, two small scratches in the paint, and a very minor hangar rash on the tail.

As a bonus, I got to attend the Pats/Colts game last evening and the good guys won! :)

I'm very happy those other guys never responded to me. If they mistook me for a tire kicker, then I guess it was their loss. If they weren't serious about selling, then I'm glad I didn't waste my time with them. I was apprehensive about dealing with a broker, but the broker and the organization were nothing short of professional. The broker returned all my calls and kept me informed on the seller's response. The plane was priced fairly, and we completed the transaction fairly quickly after my initial offer.

I am one pretty happy camper right now.
Click to expand...


Gorgeous. looks like my dream. What did you end up paying for the plane?
Jim
 
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