Scattering Cremains

Aztec Driver

Aztec Driver

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Bryon
So, in the context of scattering ashes, what would constitute a "hazard to persons or property?"

Obviously, making sure not to drop a container is necessary. Not crashing would also be pretty obvious. Other than that, is there any other things to consider?

My father's last wishes were for me to scatter his ashes by airplane over the Chesapeake Bay near where he used to run his boat. I had thought to fly over the area at around 800 feet and disperse them through a piping construct out the pilot's vent window. I am just not sure if ashes being dispersed by aircraft over an area likely populated by boating enthusiasts would be a real nice thing to do.

I can not find any regulations prohibiting it in either state or federal statutes, nor anything in the FARS, with the exception of the "undue hazard" clause. Most of the statutes seem to indicate "don't ask, don't tell" type of situation.
 
First, mind the DC SFRA, which extends aboud halfway across the Bay from about the Bay Bridge south towards NAS Patuxent River. Also, avoid R-4001A at the north end of the Bay around the Aberdeen Proving Ground. Aside from that, just stay away from the boats. Pick a day when they're not out, and don't do it over any that are. Stay far enough from shore that there's no chance the cremains will end up in someone's back yard. Other than that, nobody will know or care.
 
Ok, here's the deal, no worries on the scatter over parks, wild lands, bodies of water....kinda a nono to scatter over populated areas. Trick to this is pressure differential and airflow. If at anytime the bag with the cremains gets opened while still in the aircraft cabin, the chances of everyone wearing 'Grampa who flew in the war' goes up to like 97%. You want to do this in a 182 where both side windows open and open them both. The right seated is the distributor. In the cardboard box you open one end exposing the bag to the left hand, hold the box in the right and reach both arms out the window as far as they can before opening the bag. As soon as the bag goes out the window you want to go into a power off descending, turning half ball skid to provide positive pressure displacement and flow to take the dearly departed into the slipstream.

If this procedure is not precisely followed, typically by the bereaved not puting the box out the window before dumping, things get gray fast, literally. The cockpit will flash IMC for a moment, but it clears quickly, the gray film makes everything a monotone gray.
 
The vacuum cleaner hose out the clear prop window sounds like a best bet. Just make sure it trails beyond anything that will suck back into the cabin. I know someone who through cremains out the Navion canopy and it all got sucked back in through the wing root vents into the baggage compartment.
 
Nice detail Henning, and I agree with Ron - no one will know/care. I think it may be more the act of scattering rather than where the ashes eventually land. They'll know what you did for them.
 
I've done it by putting the cremains in a paper bag, tying a cord to the neck of the bag and throwing it overboard. When the bag gets to the end of the cord it breaks because the cremains are fairly heavy. I have also heard of people using a lightweight plastic bag like what newspapers come in. I don't know how this would work from a Piper, however, since it has a small window. We did it from an open cockpit airplane. The people who operated it had some experience with this before, and it's what they suggested.
 
When I go, I'll specify a flour bombing run. :)
 
DaleB said:
When I go, I'll specify a flour bombing run. :)
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There was an old guy I used to fly with when he heard I was doing dusters said "make me into a brick and drop me on my son in law.":rofl:
 
We always wondered why there were chips in the paint and side windows on our Malibu. The old owner told us that he sent an old friend's remains out of the pilots vent window. The old owner was well prepared by flying depressurized and had made a good tube to exit the cabin.

Have something to extend a ways out or get a slow airplane. The old owner of our ship wasn't prepared for the bigger particles that exited the cabin.
 
When these threads come up I usually re-post this tragedy from 1998. I suspect the pressure differential Henning mention was in the wrong direction.
 

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I don't think I'd worry too much about the 'over boats or backyards' thing. If its just ashes with no bits or chunks then it'll disperse in the air and blow away. 800' should be plenty high but if you're worried just fly higher.

I'd use a long tube and do the vacume thing. End of tube past the end of plane. You could design a jet pump to aid in suction. About 3 feet down the tube make a hole of a smaller diameter. Get a second tube of this diameter and about 6" long and put a cut funnel on the end of that. Cut the funnel to make a very small diameter, but bigger than the tube.

The operator ends up with a long vacume tube extending past the tail of the plane. He holds that tube where the smaller tube is inserted. With his right hand, in the right seat he holds the vacume tube and the funnel with the funnel pointing into the oncoming air. This forces a larger amount of air down the main tube and will create a much stronger suction.

With the operators free (left) hand simply vacume the contents out of an enclosed container. Easy peezy.


Disclaimer: I've never done this or seen it work. In fact I just thought of it now.
 
The "paper bag at end of rope" method is what I've always heard recommended.

I'm leery of letting anything go far enough back that it could interfere with a control surface.
 
Would the barrel of a spud gun fit through the Piper window?
(You can add a smiley or not, as you choose :) )
 
Ron Levy said:
Neither would Henning, but his posts suggest a risk tolerance that makes NASA of the 60's look like pussycats.
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Nah, I'm picturing 3,000 AGL'ish cruising along. Whatever is below isn't going to notice ashes being dumped that high above. It'll all be gone with the wind.
 
Captain said:
Nah, I'm picturing 3,000 AGL'ish cruising along. Whatever is below isn't going to notice ashes being dumped that high above. It'll all be gone with the wind.
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That's what I would have thought before reading this thread, too. I would expect that by the time the ashes reached ground level, they'd be so dispersed that there wouldn't be any way to notice.
 
hopmedic said:
That's what I would have thought before reading this thread, too. I would expect that by the time the ashes reached ground level, they'd be so dispersed that there wouldn't be any way to notice.
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These aren't "ashes" like you find in a cigarette ash tray or sweep out of your fireplace. More like fine gravel bits than what we usually think of as ash. If dropped from 800 feet as the OP originally said, they could indeed be noticable.
 
ejensen said:
When these threads come up I usually re-post this tragedy from 1998. I suspect the pressure differential Henning mention was in the wrong direction.
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See, he was making left turns likely dumping out the right side, in this case the high pressure side. 300' is far too low for this stuff, you have to be ready for it to go wrong because it's not infrequent. The bag method is probably best, but I would be hesitant out a storm window and it would have to be a strand of soft yarn.
 
Ron Levy said:
These aren't "ashes" like you find in a cigarette ash tray or sweep out of your fireplace. More like fine gravel bits than what we usually think of as ash. If dropped from 800 feet as the OP originally said, they could indeed be noticable.
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Really? Huh. Didn't know that.
 
i used to have a large remote control airplane that dropped a parachute guy - 'dispersed by aircraft' could constitute an r/c...
 
I've seen it done a few times and it has never worked out well.

The bone fragments do a pretty good job of sand blasting stabilators, too.
 
hopmedic said:
That's what I would have thought before reading this thread, too. I would expect that by the time the ashes reached ground level, they'd be so dispersed that there wouldn't be any way to notice.
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Soft tissue like organs and muscle is pretty much vaporized by the intense heat. What remains is mostly bone (plus any jewelry that was missed, maybe a titanium hip replacement, gold fillings, shrapnel from the war, bone screws, and maybe even a pacemaker - though it's supposed to be removed first). The extraneous stuff is pulled out before the bones go through the pulverizer because they can damage the machine. Just like you don't want to run a bolt through your hammer mil when grinding hog feed. In the end, the residue is grainy like sand or gravel, as has been stated before. Very little "ash" like substance to it.

In my limited experience it bears a slight resemblance to very finely ground haydite, which is fired shale that you see in bonsai arrangements.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...I4jm2QXxq8m-Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CGUQ9QEwBg&dur=3667
 
Interesting. I had no idea. I always thought it would be like ash from a fireplace. Of course, why would one research such a thing to find out, right? lol
 
jnmeade said:
Soft tissue like organs and muscle is pretty much vaporized by the intense heat. What remains is mostly bone (plus any jewelry that was missed, maybe a titanium hip replacement, gold fillings, shrapnel from the war, bone screws, and maybe even a pacemaker - though it's supposed to be removed first). The extraneous stuff is pulled out before the bones go through the pulverizer because they can damage the machine. Just like you don't want to run a bolt through your hammer mil when grinding hog feed. In the end, the residue is grainy like sand or gravel, as has been stated before. Very little "ash" like substance to it.

In my limited experience it bears a slight resemblance to very finely ground haydite, which is fired shale that you see in bonsai arrangements.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...I4jm2QXxq8m-Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CGUQ9QEwBg&dur=3667
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so much for lunch :rolleyes2:
 
it's been too long since I was paramedicing - got my stomach back!
 
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hopmedic said:
Interesting. I had no idea. I always thought it would be like ash from a fireplace. Of course, why would one research such a thing to find out, right? lol
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There's also a metal tag, about the size of a coin which is used for identification.
 
I didn't know that at all about cremation ashes. There went another great business idea I had a while back.

San Diego's sewage is pumped five miles out into the ocean after moderate treatment. My thought was to offer low cost dignified ocean burials for cremated love ones to people in the Midwest. They send me the cremains, and I lovingly place them in my Pacific Ocean dispersal system. I guess the remains would clog up my ocean dispersal system right at the dignified cremains dispersal acceptance bowl.

Oh well, there goes another of my million dollar ideas swirling down the toilet.

-John
 
I hate to break it to you, but non-disolvable stuff becomes part of the sludge which is removed before the stuff is pumped into the ocean. The solids from the waste water is sent to the BIOSOLIDS plan. The inorganic grit is trucked off to a landfill and the remaining organic sludge is spread on land as fertilizer.
 
flyingron said:
I hate to break it to you, but non-disolvable stuff becomes part of the sludge which is removed before the stuff is pumped into the ocean. The solids from the waste water is sent to the BIOSOLIDS plan. The inorganic grit is trucked off to a landfill and the remaining organic sludge is spread on land as fertilizer.
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That is why my post about my brilliant idea was doomed to failure. When I came up with it, I thought cremains were like regular ashes, and would dissolve before they reached the settling ponds.

ALSO.....I do hope you understand that my entire contribution to this thread was meant to be taken tongue in cheek. I would never engage in such an unscrupulous scheme. I'm retired, I'm trying to get out of work, not find more. :D

-John
 
Well, Dad has been laid in his final resting places. The dispersal device did not work too badly, but it did have to have some tweaking to deliver the whole amount. had to reload the canister, because there was more ash than fit into the canister at one time. ran a pipe out the side vent window of the Twinkie and let the air pressure suck it out of the canister. Just could not dump it too fast, or it would clog the pipe.

He was scattered over quite a few miles of the bay he enjoyed.

Rest well, Dad.
 
RIP. He's probably laughing at all of the effort put forth on the project, from the afterlife, if you believe in such things. And his last wishes were respected, however you slice it.
 
Bryon. Sorry for your loss, but I am glad that you were able to fulfill your Dad's wishes.
 
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