rv9a ifr equip upgrade

D

drmax

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drmax
Welp, I'm needing advice. May have touched on this here already, but down to crunch time. My 9A is ifr certified (besides data base outta date)Has king 89B (failing display) with kx155 and cdi. (gs and loc) Also tru trac a/p equipped. I have ready to go, a garmin 650 install with gx3 touch. I'm "hating" dropping this doe on something I'll only fly (most likely) lite ifr. The deal, I'm not certified yet, and will use my plane to get certified. Hell, I don't even want to update my ndb, if I'm going to pull the 89B anyway.

What I'm thinking, is get the training with what I have, get my ticket, and then just use experimental ifr equipment. But this downfall, is that I can not legally fly ifr without a certified gps receiver, correct? Meaning, I'd need the garmin product anyway.

Any advice out there. Putting in a used 430 isn't the advice I need. Is there a way around shooting a waas approach with experimental equipment? Thx, DM
 
You only need the certified GPS receiver if you intend to shoot a GPS approach. You can still shoot an ILS with just a certified ILS receiver (non GPS). You should keep in mind though that GPS approaches are quickly becoming the majority of approaches, you'll want to have a certified GPS for any serious IFR use.

The key there is that whatever receiver you are using, for the type of approach you are shooting, has to be certified. An ILS approach requires a certified (non-experimental) ILS receiver, a GPS requires a certified GPS receiver. In addition to that, the autopilot will not take direction from a non-certified receiver, but it will take coupling direction from a certified receiver, for that reason.

In my 9A I've got full Dynon plus a 430W for the certified input to drive the display and autopilot for a coupled approach.

Please, please do not try flying IFR without proper equipment - the experimental world has enough people pulling stupid pilot tricks as it is, we don't need any more headlines.
 
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The big rub is that I don't know of any other than IFR GPS receivers that fully support all the stuff in GPS approaches that you will need. Of course, you don't technically need the STC etc... stuff for an experimental that goes with a normal IFR GPS installation, though it probably behooves you to fully follow the manufacturer's installation/certification procedures before you rely on it in the soup.

Your other option is to see if you can find another used 89B to swap which would be the faster/easier/cheaper solution for the short term.
 
airguy said:
You only need the certified GPS receiver if you intend to shoot a GPS approach. You can still shoot an ILS with just a certified ILS receiver (non GPS). You should keep in mind though that GPS approaches are quickly becoming the majority of approaches, you'll want to have a certified GPS for any serious IFR use.

The key there is that whatever receiver you are using, for the type of approach you are shooting, has to be certified. An ILS approach requires a certified (non-experimental) ILS receiver, a GPS requires a certified GPS receiver. In addition to that, the autopilot will not take direction from a non-certified receiver, but it will take coupling direction from a certified receiver, for that reason.

In my 9A I've got full Dynon plus a 430W for the certified input to drive the display and autopilot for a coupled approach.

Please, please do not try flying IFR without proper equipment - the experimental world has enough people pulling stupid pilot tricks as it is, we don't need any more headlines.
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i will have the proper equip
 
flyingron said:
The big rub is that I don't know of any other than IFR GPS receivers that fully support all the stuff in GPS approaches that you will need. Of course, you don't technically need the STC etc... stuff for an experimental that goes with a normal IFR GPS installation, though it probably behooves you to fully follow the manufacturer's installation/certification procedures before you rely on it in the soup.

Your other option is to see if you can find another used 89B to swap which would be the faster/easier/cheaper solution for the short term.
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Guess I'm either all in, or all out! 89 is crap to learn with. Yes cheaper but get wut u pay for. I want waas. 89 only certified for enroute. Does me no good for approach. so I'll dump the 20k and move on. That is 650, gx3 touch, tru trac upgrade servo and head, and grt mini x. This is as far as I wanna go!
 
You said it's an 89B, it should work fine for approaches. An 89 is enroute / terminal only. Of course it's not WAAS so you're limited in what approaches and other situations you can use it for, but it's not worthless. If it were me, I'd go to at least one of the WAAS ones.

Frankly, a good moving map in any form (be it a 530W or a GTN or Avidyne or whatever) is a bigger thing to me in IFR than what approaches you are equipped to fly.

Good luck with your instrument training.
 
flyingron said:
You said it's an 89B, it should work fine for approaches. An 89 is enroute / terminal only. Of course it's not WAAS so you're limited in what approaches and other situations you can use it for, but it's not worthless. If it were me, I'd go to at least one of the WAAS ones.

Frankly, a good moving map in any form (be it a 530W or a GTN or Avidyne or whatever) is a bigger thing to me in IFR than what approaches you are equipped to fly.

Good luck with your instrument training.
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one is the waas ones, meaning waas capable GPS, I.E 430/530/650?
 
The 430W, 530W (note the W, the plain 430/530), the 480 and just about panel mount GPS made since has the WAAS capabiltiy.
 
Easiest thing to learn IFR with and pass the test is two VOR's, one with a glideslope. All the GPS stuff just makes it harder.

I recommend an IFR GPS , a VOR with glideslope two radios and an autopilot. Fly the enroute with a GPS and come in on the ILS (or VOR, VOR/DME or GPS or RNAV).

YMMV
 
coloradobluesky said:
Easiest thing to learn IFR with and pass the test is two VOR's, one with a glideslope. All the GPS stuff just makes it harder.
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Speaking as one who gives instrument training for a living, I agree completely. No GPS, no ADF, no autopilot -- saves a lot of training time. You can learn how to use all that other stuff later without the pressure of a practical test. Of course, you already have the TruTrak in the plane, so I guess you're stuck with that, and you probably wouldn't like taking the test with only a single nav/comm and no GPS (think partial panel hold at an intersection :yikes:)

In any event, I'm about to do an IR refresher in an RV-10 with a G3x Touch and a 650. I'll let you know what I think when I'm done, but my gut feel is it will be a fabulous system -- although you'd probably rather not go through the various degraded states on an IR practical test. OTOH, the idea of using a KLN-89B for routine IFR ops (I've done several training sessions with one) doesn't really light my fire -- old, clunky user interface, a map worthy of Pong's graphics in its sophistication, no WAAS (i.e., no LPV approaches), etc.

All things considered, however, if your two choices are to take the IR training and practical test with the 89B or to take it with the 650, you really will want to do it with the 650 -- much easier to use. Just expect to take a bit more time to really learn the 650 and the G3x.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Easiest thing to learn IFR with and pass the test is two VOR's, one with a glideslope. All the GPS stuff just makes it harder.
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Can you take the checkride with just 2 VORs? As I recall, you need 3 different approaches. I know you can do VOR, LOC, and ILS with two VORs (assuming at least one has a gliderslope). But I've heard something about some examiner not considering LOC and ILS different approaches. Is this an actual problem or just a rogue examiner?
 
\__[Ô]__/;1483675 said:
Can you take the checkride with just 2 VORs?
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Yes, as long as one has a GS. Note that when we say "VOR", we are talking about a standard VHF navigation receiver which includes both VOR and LOC capability. Thus, you can (as long as the approach isn't labeled DUAL VOR REQUIRED) fly a LOC approach with one VOR unit. With only that one nav receiver plus GS, you end up doing one VOR approach, one LOC approach, and one ILS approach -- thee different, two of which are nonprecision and one of which is precision, thus meeting the PTS requirement. Had a student last year with nothing but one KX-155 with GS and a transponder -- not easy, but it's possible.

As I recall, you need 3 different approaches. I know you can do VOR, LOC, and ILS with two VORs (assuming at least one has a gliderslope).
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Correct.

But I've heard something about some examiner not considering LOC and ILS different approaches. Is this an actual problem or just a rogue examiner?
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Either rogue examiner or you heard incorrectly. If you confirm this information to be accurate, please quietly let the FSDO know about it so they can equally quietly re-educate the DPE involved.
 
Thanks Ron. It's possible I misheard, or maybe the story got distorted by the time it got to me - I heard it second or third hand.
 
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