Run up and mag check

Dave Krall CFII said:
After leaning for cruise, an early CFI told me that the FBO's A&P mechanic said to enrichen their SkyHawks less than one turn of the mixture knob per 1000 feet of descent... Right or wrong ?
Wrong. No enrichment is needed unless you push the throttle forward again, when you may have to enrich some again to get smooth operation. But you aren't going to hurt anything if upon level-off you add throttle, and then fiddle with the mixture to get it where it belongs in the new cruise state. And one turn per 1000 feet is a whole bunch of mixture change -- my Cheeger only wants about four or five clicks difference in cruise between the surface and 10,000 feet.
 
More indepth explaination:

Dave
=======================================================

Let's differentiate between the classic backfire, where the "fire" gets into the INTAKE manifold. If the mixture there is within combustible limits (it often isn't), the fuel/air vapor will ignite "vigorously," often seen as a gout of flame out the carburetor intake and a big bang. Since the intake manifolds are not designed to take this overpressure, the backfire may well be harmful. In the big radials this is ALWAYS due to a "too lean" mixture (not enough fuel, or too much air).

The "afterfire" occurs in the exhaust manifold, and is always the product of unburned fuel lighting off. If there's a lot of raw fuel in the exhaust manifold, a truly spectacular burst of orange fire (20 feet long, or more) can come out the exhaust stacks until the fuel is all burned. This is generally harmless, unless there is a continuing supply of raw fuel. Eventually, it may light something else off, such as the oil on a very oily engine (common on the old radials). On the other hand, if the fuel in the exhaust is well vaporized, it can also ignite "vigorously,"

causing a huge bang, often a series of them during the start. These may very well cause cracked exhaust stacks, which are deadly on a turbo'd engine, and not good anywhere. I saw this most recently on our old C-46 where a trainee got a series of about six bangs. Sure enough, the left outboard exhaust "trumpet" was found cracked almost all the way around.

Most of the above discussion is applicable to the starting. Once the engine is running, things tend to settle down and remain stable. The modern "flat" engines have fewer problems with all this, although all the above ARE possible. A stack fire on a Bonanza trying to get a start will sure singe the paint on the fuselage and cowling above, AND it may well be the ignition point for that puddle of fuel on the ground from the awful "flooded start" so many people use!

Now, at any cruise power, inflight, if you kill the combustion in a cylinder by turning both plugs off, the unburned fuel will just get blown on through, and ejected into the exhaust stack, where there is "fire" (from other cylinders) to light it off more or less harmlessly. If you turn both mags off, ALL the fuel blows on through, and there's no "fire" to burn it. It's probably a highly combustible mix, so when you turn the mags back on, and combustion begins again, the first shot of hot exhaust will probably light off everything still in the exhaust manifold, and you may get a momentary "overpressure." I don't know how much, and I'm now speculating, but I don't want to do that to my engine. I have done it, and it's a VERY ABRUPT resumption of power, at the very least. The "bang" (if

any) may be masked by the rest of the engine noise.

Note that IF you ALREADY have a dead mag, then doing a mag check will be the same as if you turned 'em both off. If you know what the engine monitor shows with a normal engine, you won't ever do that, because your EGTs will all be MUCH higher than normal if one mag fails. That's the time to ease well back on the power before you do the check.

If only one cylinder goes dead, the engine will seem like it's jumping off its mount, but that should be harmless, if corrected quickly.



Best...

John Deakin

 
Dave Siciliano said:
Add to the above that 2500 is a lot faster rpm than 1700 for the mag. check on the ground, so fuel is pumping faster. However, even on the ground, with on dead mag, it can cause quite a backfire or after fire as Walter refers to it. Difference is what happens after the after fire. On the ground, one may be shaken--not stirred :redface:

Dave

This is one of the occasions where the theory is good, But I have never seen it happen
 
Dave Siciliano said:
More indepth explaination:

Dave
=======================================================

Let's differentiate between the classic backfire, where the "fire" gets into the INTAKE manifold. If the mixture there is within combustible limits (it often isn't), the fuel/air vapor will ignite "vigorously," often seen as a gout of flame out the carburetor intake and a big bang. Since the intake manifolds are not designed to take this overpressure, the backfire may well be harmful. In the big radials this is ALWAYS due to a "too lean" mixture (not enough fuel, or too much air).

The "afterfire" occurs in the exhaust manifold, and is always the product of unburned fuel lighting off. If there's a lot of raw fuel in the exhaust manifold, a truly spectacular burst of orange fire (20 feet long, or more) can come out the exhaust stacks until the fuel is all burned. This is generally harmless, unless there is a continuing supply of raw fuel. Eventually, it may light something else off, such as the oil on a very oily engine (common on the old radials). On the other hand, if the fuel in the exhaust is well vaporized, it can also ignite "vigorously,"

causing a huge bang, often a series of them during the start. These may very well cause cracked exhaust stacks, which are deadly on a turbo'd engine, and not good anywhere. I saw this most recently on our old C-46 where a trainee got a series of about six bangs. Sure enough, the left outboard exhaust "trumpet" was found cracked almost all the way around.

Most of the above discussion is applicable to the starting. Once the engine is running, things tend to settle down and remain stable. The modern "flat" engines have fewer problems with all this, although all the above ARE possible. A stack fire on a Bonanza trying to get a start will sure singe the paint on the fuselage and cowling above, AND it may well be the ignition point for that puddle of fuel on the ground from the awful "flooded start" so many people use!

Now, at any cruise power, inflight, if you kill the combustion in a cylinder by turning both plugs off, the unburned fuel will just get blown on through, and ejected into the exhaust stack, where there is "fire" (from other cylinders) to light it off more or less harmlessly. If you turn both mags off, ALL the fuel blows on through, and there's no "fire" to burn it. It's probably a highly combustible mix, so when you turn the mags back on, and combustion begins again, the first shot of hot exhaust will probably light off everything still in the exhaust manifold, and you may get a momentary "overpressure." I don't know how much, and I'm now speculating, but I don't want to do that to my engine. I have done it, and it's a VERY ABRUPT resumption of power, at the very least. The "bang" (if

any) may be masked by the rest of the engine noise.

Note that IF you ALREADY have a dead mag, then doing a mag check will be the same as if you turned 'em both off. If you know what the engine monitor shows with a normal engine, you won't ever do that, because your EGTs will all be MUCH higher than normal if one mag fails. That's the time to ease well back on the power before you do the check.

If only one cylinder goes dead, the engine will seem like it's jumping off its mount, but that should be harmless, if corrected quickly.



Best...

John Deakin



A really nice post. In run up and start in the Beech I do sometimes get a exhaust fire for when it is hot fuel vapors get into the Exhaust and yes there is a loud pop. I do shut down and check the stacks to look for cracks for havng flown some radials in the past you do not want to fly with cracks in the exhaust system. With the intake backfire there is a real "Balloon of flame" that comes out of the intake and it is a usually a result of over priming on a cold day. It can be quite damaging if one does not correct and "Swallow the flames" as we called it. Keep the starter running and open the throttle all the way. The radials sometimes would get this condition. Interesting in the old radial airline days there was always a "fireman" with an extinguisher standing near by during the engine start. As a copilot it was my job to get the fireman to come on station when we fired up the Beech 18 for intake fires were more common with long throated intake manifolds.

John J
 
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