Rudder while take off and taxing

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rtbayne01072

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flyboy72
Hello All!

This is my second post on here. Still pretty early in my flight training.

Today I went up for my Third lesson, flying a Cessna 152. We worked on approach patterns, and I was able to do my first touch and go.

I have gotten the hang of piloting the aircraft in the air doing 30 and 45 degree bank turns, I've done some slow flying and take offs. But the area I feel like I and struggling the most with is using the rudder peddles during taxing and landings. My instructor says i used the brakes too much. Mainly because I don't trust the plane then I have a tendency to over correct. :mad2:

It's a little bit frustrating but I'm assuming I will get the feel for it with time. Did anyone else have this problem? any tips or advice?

On a side note my instructor said my approaches were pretty good.
 
Hello. Welcome to POA.

What you are describing is a common problem for student pilots. Riding the brakes while on the ground ends up being an expensive habit. The rubber on the tire of a 152 is very thin and it won't take much to be buying a new tire. The worst is to land with your feet on the brakes. It just takes one such landing to go right through the treads immediately.

So, you need to make sure you are controlling speed on the ground with the throttle and that you are using the rudder pedal to turn the airplane instead of using the brakes. Try to make sure you are only using the brakes for that final stop when you are parking.

While taxiing, use the rudder for directional control. To make sure you are not riding the brakes, make a habit of planting the heels of your shoes on the floor before landing and when on the ground. If you find yourself getting too fast, pull back on the throttle. If you are going too slowly around a corner, add just a little more throttle to help you go around. Ask your instructor to help you find what works best for you, your plane, and the airport.

PS. Good on those approaches. Glad you are getting the hang of it.
 
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I had the same issue early on. It was fixed easily by just slowing down the taxi speed. Try taxiing at half the speed you are now and I'll bet you find yourself rarely using/wanting the brakes and getting a better feel for how much throttle you need for ground ops. Good luck and keep us updated on your training!
 
Slow the taxi up a bit and you won't have to ride the brakes. During the roll out of the landing, don't feel rushed to exit the runway and slam on the brakes. It is your runway until you cross the hold short lines.
 
I generally use toe brakes during taxi for minor steering corrections. I only tap them very briefly and lightly for the small adjustments. The general direction of the aircraft should be actual rudders.

Whether I'm taking off or landing, once you're faster than taxi speed, your heels should be on the ground to prevent you from going near the brakes.

Most of this has to do with mental discipline. Everyone has their random technical issues that they have to overcome on the path to competent flying.
 
rtbayne01072 said:
....It's a little bit frustrating but I'm assuming I will get the feel for it with time. Did anyone else have this problem? any tips or advice? ....
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it was awkward for me (and probably a lot of peeps) at first but it is definitely something you will eventually master, to the point that you won't even think about it, it'll just be second nature for the most part. just keep working at it!
 
warthog1984 said:
Put your heels on the floor and you won't having to worry about pressing the brakes.
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Not necessarily so. I'm quite capable of actuating brakes in a 172 or 152 with my heels on the floor.

The right thing to do is place the balls of your feet on the lower halves of the rudder pedals.

Cessnas steer like supertankers. I suspect the real issue is trying to steer them like cars (or Pipers). You have to anticipate turns and keep the speed down.
 
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Train in a taildragger, then when you go to fly a tricycle it will not be a problem. Every new pilot should get some tailwheel training before climbing in a tricycle gear airplane. IMHO

Tony
 
MAKG1 said:
Not necessarily so. I'm quite capable of actuating brakes in a 172 or 152 with my heels on the floor.

The right thing to do is place the balls of your feet on the lower halves of the rudder pedals.

Cessnas steer like supertankers. I suspect the real issue is trying to steer them like cars (or Pipers). You have to anticipate turns and keep the speed down.
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This is what I taught my students. Feet come in different sizes, and my small feet can operate the brakes on a small plane with my heels on the floor. So I made sure all students understood that the balls of the feet should be on the lower part of the pedal to use the rudder. Doesn't really matter where your heels are after that.
 
I have a hand brake. I feather it. Also, taxing at higher RPM can cause you to use the brakes too much.
 
jcepiano said:
I generally use toe brakes during taxi for minor steering corrections. I only tap them very briefly and lightly for the small adjustments. The general direction of the aircraft should be actual rudders.

Whether I'm taking off or landing, once you're faster than taxi speed, your heels should be on the ground to prevent you from going near the brakes.

Most of this has to do with mental discipline. Everyone has their random technical issues that they have to overcome on the path to competent flying.
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Unless your nosewheel is free castering (ie. no nosewheel steering) you shouldn't be using the brakes to make minor steering corrections. Brake pads cost $.
 
Make sure you keep your heels on the floor so you ONLY use the rudder not the brake. After you land then put your toes on the brakes and use them to slow the plane down while using the rudder for directional control as best you can. You will get the hang of it!
 
Go fly a taildragger with heel brakes, that'll fix ya.

Ailerons to keep the plane in the middle of the runway, rudder to keep her pointed down the runway, you shouldn't even need the brakes
 
The steering bungees on a 152 can get soft. They're just a spring inside a tube against a rod, and they push and pull on the steering collar on the nosegear. The nosegear has a centering cam that locks the nosewheel straight once the wheel is off the ground and without those bungees the rudder would get locked as well. Everything is OK when they're in good shape, but the springs get soft and the nosewheel starts getting slow to react when the hours pile up on the old airplane. There have been a few instances, too, of the internal spring washer inside that tube wearing against the crimp that holds it, and it gets on the wrong side of the crimp and causes bad stuff like limiting rudder travel in one direction. IMHO there should be a mandated life limit on those bungees.

Some mechanics set the idle speed way beyond the specified figures because the engine idles nicer there. But those mechanics aren't pilots and don't realize the hassle they're causing. High idle makes landings longer and use more runway and more tires and more brake pads and discs. High idle causes the propeller to suck up more stones and junk off the surface. There are specifications for good reasons.

Dan
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone!!

I'll definitely take these things into consideration next time I go up! I agree with the heel on the floor strategy and slowing taxi speed down. I'm hoping to go up a week from Friday so I'll keep everyone updated on how I do.
 
Some planes are just harder to taxi in a straight line than others. Don't worry about it, it'll come.
 
rtbayne01072 said:
Thanks for all the replies everyone!!

I'll definitely take these things into consideration next time I go up! I agree with the heel on the floor strategy and slowing taxi speed down. I'm hoping to go up a week from Friday so I'll keep everyone updated on how I do.
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Some fresh ideas for you....

1) At this stage, taxi at a slower pace, roughly equivalent to a fast jog if you were running beside the wing.

2) To help maintain the taxiway center line, imagine it going just under your right foot. If it's not under your right foot, make a small correction with the pedals to get it back under your right foot.

3) If needed, run over all of the reflectors stuck on the taxiway, making sure you "buh-bump" across each one. When the instructor asks you why you're doing that, respond, "Some guy on PoA suggested a taxi-by-Braille method."
 
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