Restoring and upgrading a vintage panel

DaleB said:
Uh, yeah. Okay. Whatever.
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so as when my kids respond in that way I'll ask a rhetorical question. Why do you want to install a radio and transponder in an aircraft that has no electrical system to power them and does not require them to fly in nearly any airspace including under the rings of a class B ?
 
Tom-D said:
Understanding the term TSO and not refer to it as a requirement for a panel upgrade was the premiss I disagreed with.
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Since I never said it was (other than for transponder and GPS, where it's clearly stated in the regulations and AC's), why do you keep saying that?:mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
JHW said:
so as when my kids respond in that way I'll ask a rhetorical question. Why do you want to install a radio and transponder in an aircraft that has no electrical system to power them and does not require them to fly in nearly any airspace including under the rings of a class B ?
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Well, I can think of many reasons not to install an "expresso" [sic] machine in any airplane, let alone something with no room and no need for it.

Check the tail end of post #53 where I already answered your rhetorical question, though. A radio and transponder is pretty much mandatory for flying into and through C airspace, which comprises a lot of what I have in my area.

I also think it's a good idea to fly cooperatively, and communicate with other pilots. I choose not to fly without a radio, and would prefer not to fly with only a handheld. I don't quite understand some peoples' objections to that. Since an electrical system and a minimum of modern equipment can be installed in a plane like this, I fail to see the big problem with doing it. If you don't want anything electronic in your plane, great -- go fly and have fun. But please don't grouse about me wanting to update one I'm going to fly.
 
DaleB said:
Well, I can think of many reasons not to install an "expresso" [sic] machine in any airplane, let alone something with no room and no need for it.

Check the tail end of post #53 where I already answered your rhetorical question, though. A radio and transponder is pretty much mandatory for flying into and through C airspace, which comprises a lot of what I have in my area.

I also think it's a good idea to fly cooperatively, and communicate with other pilots. I choose not to fly without a radio, and would prefer not to fly with only a handheld. I don't quite understand some peoples' objections to that. Since an electrical system and a minimum of modern equipment can be installed in a plane like this, I fail to see the big problem with doing it. If you don't want anything electronic in your plane, great -- go fly and have fun. But please don't grouse about me wanting to update one I'm going to fly.
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It's your dream machine, put in it what you want, But refusing the advice given is like, why did you ask in the first place? the hand held radios are not the old rubber bricks of old, my new radio fits in my shirt pocket it has 760 channels and a full 5 watt output and a battery life of 4 hours.
that's more fuel than you will carry in the chief or champ.
 
Am I now required to accept all advice given? I do appreciate the advice -- all of it -- but some things that may work for someone else simply do not work for me. If flying with a handheld radio, or none at all is acceptable to someone, great -- go for it. If hand propping the engine works for you, great -- go for it. If staying clear of all Class C and B airspace is your thing, great. There are some things I'm simply not wild about doing.

It looks like the Lasher STC provides for installation of a C-85-12 with an electrical system, and taking the gross weight from 1220 to 1300. I already know the radio & transponder will be pretty light weight, even when you allow for cables and antennas. The starter, battery and charging system will add some weight, but not close to 80 pounds. I'd have a little control over the weight by being careful about the interior, paint, etc. Looks like a pretty good solution to me. If whatever I eventually find needs fabric, it's not an insurmountable obstacle, although frankly I'd prefer not to have to do it. There are several people I know who have done it and can give advice or lend a hand, but I do know it's a ton of work even with pre-sewn envelopes.

Yes, it will involve quite a bit of work, and not an insignificant amount of money. I'd already committed to that a long time ago, this would just be a different airplane. And who knows? Maybe I'll find something all ready to fly, set up just the way I want it. I did find one but it's been sold. There will probably be another. In the mean time if a suitable project becomes available, I'll consider that too.

So seriously, thanks for the advice, it's valuable and I do appreciate it. Just please don't be offended if my decisions don't line up 100% with what yours would be.
 
DaleB said:
Am I now required to accept all advice given? I do appreciate the advice -- all of it -- but some things that may work for someone else simply do not work for me. If flying with a handheld radio, or none at all is acceptable to someone, great -- go for it. If hand propping the engine works for you, great -- go for it. If staying clear of all Class C and B airspace is your thing, great. There are some things I'm simply not wild about doing.

It looks like the Lasher STC provides for installation of a C-85-12 with an electrical system, and taking the gross weight from 1220 to 1300. I already know the radio & transponder will be pretty light weight, even when you allow for cables and antennas. The starter, battery and charging system will add some weight, but not close to 80 pounds. I'd have a little control over the weight by being careful about the interior, paint, etc. Looks like a pretty good solution to me. If whatever I eventually find needs fabric, it's not an insurmountable obstacle, although frankly I'd prefer not to have to do it. There are several people I know who have done it and can give advice or lend a hand, but I do know it's a ton of work even with pre-sewn envelopes.

Yes, it will involve quite a bit of work, and not an insignificant amount of money. I'd already committed to that a long time ago, this would just be a different airplane. And who knows? Maybe I'll find something all ready to fly, set up just the way I want it. I did find one but it's been sold. There will probably be another. In the mean time if a suitable project becomes available, I'll consider that too.

So seriously, thanks for the advice, it's valuable and I do appreciate it. Just please don't be offended if my decisions don't line up 100% with what yours would be.
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There re two things to remember, It's your dream machine build it to suit you, and the second is you can buy better aircraft than you can build for the money spent, but you can build the one you want.

GO FOR IT.

My project 170 is a prime example, I probably have spent more than I could sell it for, but who is planing on selling? :) it will do what I want it to. and go anywhere I want.
 

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Ron Levy said:
I never said that! Stop saying I did!
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ok, bye, I think this horse is dead.

OBTW the next time you talk replacement parts and TSO in the same sentence we'll do this again.
 
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docmirror said:
One thing I haven't seen mentioned, but I'm no big fan of squawking. Unless one wants to actually land inside the class B, access to the mode-C veil is fine for non-transponder equipped aircraft without an engine driven gen/alt.
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It's a pretty big deal if you want to land in Class C airspace which is somewhat common around here. You can do it without a transponder and prior permission but it's a major pita.
 
Dale -- being somewhat familiar with this vintage of aircraft on the Experimental side I would be damn surprised if you would save money with a project. I'd really be looking for something flying if I were you.

I do know a fair amount about the A65/A75 since I've been quite involved in the maintenance of mine. If you want electronics you're going to want a C85 or bigger. O200 is MUCH easier to get parts for...

If I were to replace the engine on the Flybaby I'd probably go with a C85 to keep things simple but would be damn tempted to go all the way to an O200 (but it'd be considerably more work).
 
Tom-D said:
There re two things to remember, It's your dream machine build it to suit you, and the second is you can buy better aircraft than you can build for the money spent, but you can build the one you want.

GO FOR IT.

My project 170 is a prime example, I probably have spent more than I could sell it for, but who is planing on selling? :) it will do what I want it to. and go anywhere I want.
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Egg-zactly.

:)
 
jesse said:
It's a pretty big deal if you want to land in Class C airspace which is somewhat common around here. You can do it without a transponder and prior permission but it's a major pita.
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Thanks for quoting the exact preposition. It makes it easier for me to point to it when responding. So, in the orig post which you quoted, I prefaced by saying: Unless one wants to actually land inside the class B. Surely anyone landing in a class C would also know the regs on squawking in that space, but the class B exemption is not widely known because there are few non engine driven elec planes around anymore. I can now say this dead horse is well and truly beaten.
 
docmirror said:
Thanks for quoting the exact preposition. It makes it easier for me to point to it when responding. So, in the orig post which you quoted, I prefaced by saying: Unless one wants to actually land inside the class B. Surely anyone landing in a class C would also know the regs on squawking in that space, but the class B exemption is not widely known because there are few non engine driven elec planes around anymore. I can now say this dead horse is well and truly beaten.
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Okay? So now I'm supposed to assume everyone knows everything but doesn't know what you write? I guess I wasn't aware you knew precisely what everyone's knowledge base consisted of and was the only one capable of delivering a post of value.

I find that people mistakingly think they can fly no transponder in class c more often. As one that knows the airports and airspace around here and talks to the local controllers on a daily basis and also knows Dale I can understand why Dale wants to do what he wants to do. I'm looking at adding a transponder to my Flybaby for the same reason.

This thread is a sad example of this community. Nothing but bickering and a total failure to actually read what the op is writing. Remember the purpose of posting in this community is to make it stronger. If a post doesn't do that don't write it.
 
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jesse said:
Okay? So now I'm supposed to assume everyone knows everything but doesn't know what you write? I guess I wasn't aware you knew precisely what everyone's knowledge base consisted of and was the only one capable of delivering a post of value.

I find that people mistakingly think they can fly no transponder in class c more often. As one that knows the airports and airspace around here and talks to the local controllers on a daily basis and also knows Dale I can understand why Dale wants to do what he wants to do. I'm looking at adding a transponder to my Flybaby for the same reason.

This thread is a sad example of this community. Nothing but bickering and a total failure to actually read what the op is writing. Remember the purpose of posting in this community is to make it stronger. If a post doesn't do that don't write it.
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Oye vey. Go back and look at who quoted whom. I wrote nothing about class C airspace. You quoted me - with nonsequiter info about something I didn't write in the first place.

So; You quoted me, bringing up a point I din't make, and advising me personally about something that I didn't ask, and don't care about. Next, you are complaining once again, quoting me about the sad state of affairs of this community.

Well done. Reach around and pat yourself on the back. Nice job at being obtuse. I fully expect another quote with further blame. Don't let me down!
 
docmirror said:
Oye vey. Go back and look at who quoted whom. I wrote nothing about class C airspace. You quoted me - with nonsequiter info about something I didn't write in the first place.

So; You quoted me, bringing up a point I din't make, and advising me personally about something that I didn't ask, and don't care about. Next, you are complaining once again, quoting me about the sad state of affairs of this community.

Well done. Reach around and pat yourself on the back. Nice job at being obtuse. I fully expect another quote with further blame. Don't let me down!
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I wasn't correcting you with the quote. I was adding more information to what you had posted, based on what I know Dale is wanting to do. Just because someone quoted you does not mean they're attacking you or questioning anything about what you wrote. It's about providing relevance to what I wrote.
 
jesse said:
I wasn't correcting you with the quote. I was adding more information to what you had posted, based on what I know Dale is wanting to do. Just because someone quoted you does not mean they're attacking you or questioning anything about what you wrote. It's about providing relevance to what I wrote.
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I like pie.
 
Dale, I apologize unreservedly. I tried to provide some info, and help you along. Maybe it wasn't as useful as I first thought.

Best of luck.
 
Henning said:
With that fat wing you'd never notice the difference.:rofl: Really though, you don't.
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FWIW the reason you don't see people doing that anymore is because it doesn't work worth a ****. Or at least that's the general consensus on all the vintage forums.
 
jesse said:
FWIW the reason you don't see people doing that anymore is because it doesn't work worth a ****. Or at least that's the general consensus on all the vintage forums.
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I have a 3 amp wind driven generator that attaches to the strut and used with a small lawn mower battery that works great.
 
jesse said:
FWIW the reason you don't see people doing that anymore is because it doesn't work worth a ****. Or at least that's the general consensus on all the vintage forums.
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Worked just fine on a C-120 I used to fly.:dunno:
 
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