Requirements to be a ferry pilot?

DavidWhite

DavidWhite

Final Approach
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DW
I recently changed jobs and once again have 15 consecutive days off a month, along with CASS and all the associated travel benefits. I have been considering doing ferry pilot stuff when I'm not at my "real" job. My question is - what kind of times are most ferry pilots at? I have the vibe that I am fairly low time (3000ish TT) to do this, although I do think it has the potential to be a lot of fun.
 
You're probably fine TT wise, it would be time in certain types, or tailwheel,or that type of thing that might bite you a little.

Through up some adds and talk to some brokers and see what happens. Always thought that would be a fun side gig, I just don't have jumps seat deals.
 
James331 said:
You're probably fine TT wise, it would be time in certain types, or tailwheel,or that type of thing that might bite you a little.

Through up some adds and talk to some brokers and see what happens. Always thought that would be a fun side gig, I just don't have jumps seat deals.
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:nonod:
 
James331 said:
You're probably fine TT wise, it would be time in certain types, or tailwheel,or that type of thing that might bite you a little.

Through up some adds and talk to some brokers and see what happens. Always thought that would be a fun side gig, I just don't have jumps seat deals.
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Any idea where to start?
 
James331 said:
You're probably fine TT wise, it would be time in certain types, or tailwheel,or that type of thing that might bite you a little.
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This. Biggest issue is qualifying for insurance on the airplane in question. You can have thousands of hours, but if some guy is looking for a ferry pilot for a Comanche and you've never flown one or only have a couple hours I'm one, you probably aren't going to qualify for the insurance.
 
Should we all assume you got a CPL at some point during those 3000hrs?
 
I dunno David. When you ferry an airplane you always take a risk that it might be a ticking time bomb like that 210 I checked you out in back in the day. ;)

In real life I'd say go for it. I think you'd do fine.
 
most important thing to landing gigs is that you'll work cheaper than some other guy
 
DavidWhite said:
I recently changed jobs and once again have 15 consecutive days off a month, along with CASS and all the associated travel benefits. I have been considering doing ferry pilot stuff when I'm not at my "real" job. My question is - what kind of times are most ferry pilots at? I have the vibe that I am fairly low time (3000ish TT) to do this, although I do think it has the potential to be a lot of fun.
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Solely dependent upon a CPL, and qualifications for the aircraft being flown. I would not be flying any aircraft requiring a type certificate with out one.
 
When I looked into it Avemco covered THE OWNER's LOSS (me) on the airplane for a pilot that has the ratings and a Commercial. No coverage at all for the ferry pilots loss. Fairly typical but you should check. No mention of minimum hours or anything. Just so long as the flight is legal with the FAA, the owner was covered, but not the pilot.
 
Tyler has done some work for Van Bortel and can share with you his experiences.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Where have you been?

David has been flying professionally up in Alaska for at least a couple years now.
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Sorry I don't keep a running database on what every member here does for a living, and his original post was a bit ambiguous :rolleyes2:
 
StinkBug said:
Sorry I don't keep a running database on what every member here does for a living, and his original post was a bit ambiguous :rolleyes2:
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I don't keep track of everyone either, but David happens to be a legend here at POA....
 
coloradobluesky said:
No mention of minimum hours or anything.
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Got to read the fine print - even Avemco will list minimum time and certicate requirements for 'open pilot' coverage. It may be very low for something like 172 or PA28, but it is there (I used to have Avemco). To be named, the ferry pilot would need to provide application info and then be approved or not.
 
I've also seen some aircraft without the open pilot policy, on wheels my plane has a open pilot, don't even recall needing time in type just tailwheel, but on the amphibs there is no open pilot policy, if I recall it actually said to call if I am having anyone not listed fly her.
 
James331 said:
I've also seen some aircraft without the open pilot policy, on wheels my plane has a open pilot, don't even recall needing time in type just tailwheel, but on the amphibs there is no open pilot policy, if I recall it actually said to call if I am having anyone not listed fly her.
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If there is no open pilot clause, then they pretty much HAVE to be named if you want it to be covered though.
 
tonycondon said:
most important thing to landing gigs is that you'll work cheaper than some other guy
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Not true, I got more gigs after I raised my rate, and I dont have any airline benefits.

Fearless Tower said:
This. Biggest issue is qualifying for insurance on the airplane in question. You can have thousands of hours, but if some guy is looking for a ferry pilot for a Comanche and you've never flown one or only have a couple hours I'm one, you probably aren't going to qualify for the insurance.
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That hasnt been my experience yet, I did my first ferry with a fresh CPL 300~hours and 0 time in type. As long as your rated for the airplane I havent had any issues being named insured. In fact, before the cubs i just did, all of the ferry trips were new to me airplanes.

Word of mouth seems to be the best way, unless you can get on with a broker like mentioned earlier. I aim at small, old, slow tailwheels, and can do a pre-buy or annual in conjuction, so that helps me out a lot. The hardest part is landing your first one, then whore the **** out of it on facebook. More will come. I've been lucky so far, only walked away from a couple of prebuys, and still found better ones for the owners. The ones that were just ferry's turned out to be nice airplanes.

Every trip i've done so far as had an issue of some sort, whether getting stranded due to weather or, mx, or could only make it to a place with no hotels before dark and sleeping in a hangar that only happened to be open.

But they are a ton of fun! Go for it. Ive done a few now and will answer any questions and help as i can
 
VanDy said:
That hasnt been my experience yet, I did my first ferry with a fresh CPL 300~hours and 0 time in type. As long as your rated for the airplane I havent had any issues being named insured. In fact, before the cubs i just did, all of the ferry trips were new to me airplanes.
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That is interesting. I have not done any ferry pilot work, but as an owner, every time I have purchased an airplane (4 now) and explored possible ferrying with my insurance company, they had minimum experience requirements for the ferry pilot.

Either way, it is a conversation that needs to take place before agreeing to the job to make sure that the ferry pilot and airplane are fully covered.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
That is interesting. I have not done any ferry pilot work, but as an owner, every time I have purchased an airplane (4 now) and explored possible ferrying with my insurance company, they had minimum experience requirements for the ferry pilot.

Either way, it is a conversation that needs to take place before agreeing to the job to make sure that the ferry pilot and airplane are fully covered.
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Agreed, most of my time is tailwheel, and they've all been similar airplanes, champs, cubs, J5, flybaby.
 
tonycondon said:
most important thing to landing gigs is that you'll work cheaper than some other guy
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I disagree. I think the most important thing is 1) being responsive--email replies in under 5 minutes, calls answered on the second ring, and 2) being available to fly within 24 hours of the call. Except for specialty stuff, a lot of ferry pilot gigs are short notice. Finding someone to fly a plane is easy; someone to fly a plane by 3pm this afternoon--not so much.
 
Brad Z said:
I disagree. I think the most important thing is 1) being responsive--email replies in under 5 minutes, calls answered on the second ring, and 2) being available to fly within 24 hours of the call. Except for specialty stuff, a lot of ferry pilot gigs are short notice. Finding someone to fly a plane is easy; someone to fly a plane by 3pm this afternoon--not so much.
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I'd agree with this. Not everybody goes with the cheapest. Responsiveness and professionalism often carries the day.
 
You have plenty of TT.

You may start by posting an ad on barnstormers. Put your TT, any other relevant experience, dates you are available and you might want to say "available with 24 hrs notice" or something like that. If you have a lot of time in an unusual airplane, list that as well.

I did some domestic ferry jobs in piston singles and was even asked to take a 172 down to paraguay but I couldn't swing the time off from work. It would have been fun and paid well. I passed the job off to a qualified CFI friend and he had a great time.

Its expected that the customer provides insurance. You should fill out a pilot history form and have you listed as named insured on the policy. Offer to call their agent and handle the process. Usually it costs them little or nothing.

I let my ads expire and haven't done any trips in quite some time as my vacation time is limited and I no longer care to take time off to go drone around in a 172 or something. I may advertise for Swift ferrying though, it can be hard to find a pilot for an airplane like that.
 
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You might want to check with your jumpseat committee about personal vs. business use of jumpseats.
 
Can you turn being a ferry pilot into a career? I'll admit that's one of the reasons I'm looking to get my CPL as well, to ferry airplanes.

Ultimately I'm after my CFI, but the appeal of flying different aircraft is high.
 
Caramon13 said:
Can you turn being a ferry pilot into a career? I'll admit that's one of the reasons I'm looking to get my CPL as well, to ferry airplanes.



Ultimately I'm after my CFI, but the appeal of flying different aircraft is high.
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I think it would be tough to mad a living doing full time ferrying. Most of the guys I know who do ferry jobs are also CFIs.
 
I know a few people off hand who ferry for the price of fuel just to build hours and have flight benefits so nobody has to buy a one-way ticket. Hopefully none in your area so you don't have to try to compete with them. Good luck!
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
I know a few people off hand who ferry for the price of fuel just to build hours and have flight benefits so nobody has to buy a one-way ticket. Hopefully none in your area so you don't have to try to compete with them. Good luck!
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And im betting that most of their work is for friends. Most people ive talked to would rather pay for the professionalism, and not further prove that pilots dont need paid well.
 
VanDy said:
And im betting that most of their work is for friends. Most people ive talked to would rather pay for the professionalism, and not further prove that pilots dont need paid well.
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Around here, it is just the opposite. If someone can't move the typical light airplane themselves, they'll usually find whatever person is available, has a pulse, and will work cheap. Having a CFI rating generally helps though.


I've considered looking for some ferry work, I feel that I've got as much or more to offer than a lot of those who are advertising their services. The big disadvantage that I have however, is that I don't have any airline benefits so I'd have to charge for that.
 
mondtster said:
The big disadvantage that I have however, is that I don't have any airline benefits so I'd have to charge for that.
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Travel benefits are for personal travel only. If it's a business trip (ferrying an airplane for compensation) then they're violating their airline's travel policy by using their non-rev benefits.
 
DavidWhite said:
I recently changed jobs and once again have 15 consecutive days off a month, along with CASS and all the associated travel benefits. I have been considering doing ferry pilot stuff when I'm not at my "real" job. My question is - what kind of times are most ferry pilots at? I have the vibe that I am fairly low time (3000ish TT) to do this, although I do think it has the potential to be a lot of fun.
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You run the real chance of getting BBQed by your company and losing their JS status if you use either travel benefits or JS for business purposes.

Most companies have VERY strict guidelines about using travel benefits in this way. Same for the JS.

There was a fairly sharp guy over at ProPilotWorld that built his ferry business up from the ground up. He had some interesting stories, but in the end I think he mentioned it was VERY difficult to compete with the "do it for expenses" crowd, despite the stories of airplanes getting abandoned mid-ferry when the circumstances proved difficult (vs the professional that sticks with it).

Richman
 
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Larry in TN said:
Travel benefits are for personal travel only. If it's a business trip (ferrying an airplane for compensation) then they're violating their airline's travel policy by using their non-rev benefits.
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True, but unfortunately I have seen a lot of guys advertise their ferry pilot services based their jump seat privileges.

There was even a ferry pilot website/job board that wouldn't allow you to post unless you JS privileges.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I don't keep track of everyone either, but David happens to be a legend here at POA....
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Agreed...

It seems like it was just a few months ago, a wet behind the ears kid solo'ed and had dreams of flying for a living....

Now he posts he has 3000+ hours....... :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Where did the time go...:dunno::redface:
 
Fearless Tower said:
I think it would be tough to mad a living doing full time ferrying. Most of the guys I know who do ferry jobs are also CFIs.
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The guys who make a living are the ones who can handle all the logistics (incl paperwork and install of extra fuel tanks) and don't mind long over water flights in piston airplanes
 
The two busiest ferry pilots I've known were CFIs with airline flight privs from a family member so they could get themselves home for free. I have known others of course, but those two were flying something somewhere regularly. Some months they were gone as much as the airline folks.
 
If you want to have some real adventure look into ferrying across the ocean. There used to be and maybe still is a company at KCMA who ferryed across the Pacific. They'd put fuel bladders in and depart KSBA. Smallest plane I saw them do that in was a C150. The did a Crop Duster once going to New Zealand, first stop Hilo. A guest speaker at a Club meeting I attended once told his story of taking a Cirrus to France.
 
Do not use your company's non-rev privileges to ferry airplanes. You will jeopardize those privileges for everyone else at your company. Some airlines are tracking non-revs and where they go because of abusers
 
You can NOT use travel or jumpseat privileges in pursuit of a business. Doing so is a violation not only of company policy, but IRS rules.
 
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