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Marauder

Marauder

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Marauder
Hello All. New to the forum and was looking for some guidance. I'm a long time IFR pilot that has exclusively flown needles since I got my rating. I have made a large investment in the avionics stack to include my first WAAS GPS and a PFD/MFD. This GPS and PFD/MFD subscription has me confused. Can someone with the following equipment tell me what is legally required for IFR? And what sources for these subscriptions offer the best deal?

Garmin GTN 650 (single unit at this point)
Aspen PFD 1000 Pro
Aspen MFD 1000

I currently use an iPad for my charts (backup is an iPhone) -- sure don't miss my Jepp paper subscription! Thanks for any help!
 
You'll need a subscription for the Garmin at a minimum, since that's your system for IFR navigation.

I don't know how the Aspens interface as far as flight plans go with the Garmin. If you never display the flight plan on the Aspens, you won't need the database to be up to date - what you NEED the Aspens for is the HSI functionality, and that shouldn't be dependent on a database.

But, assuming you want to have the flight plan on the Aspen and not run in to issues where a flight plan waypoint isn't in your expired database on the Aspen, then you'll need a subscription there too. Contact Aspen and find out if you can get one subscription that updates both the PFD/MFD. - you may have to "install" the data into each unit separately, but with any luck it will be for one price, like it is with the G1000.

The advantage of having the databases up-to-date in the Aspens is that in the event your Garmin dies or you have an electrical issue you still have a moving map with an independent GPS in the Aspens, and in an emergency that can be a good thing.
 
You need to read the manuals on your installation.

The GTN650 requires (in the sample flight manual supplement, again you need to check your installation) that you have a current database installed or you verify each fix is valid.
For all PRACTICAL means, you need to have a subscription for this.

The ASPEN absolutely requires for IFR that the GPS you are using be IFR-legal (see above). Similarly for ANY FLIGHT (they don't distinguish IFR / VFR), they "do not recommend" flight with an non-current database and again REQUIRE you verify all information as current before you use it (this is particularly daunting it would seem).

So, yes you need the NAVDATA updates form JEPP for both the Aspens and the Garmin.
If you're going to use the plates in the Aspen, then you need the Seattle Avionics subscription there.
 
Ron Levy said:
You will need the regular "monthly" (actually, every four weeks) Jeppesen database subscription for the 650. Jeppesen is the only source. See http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/legal/charts/ads-overview.jsp?ostc=ostc00186wh&omnostcloc=lr2 for subscription options and pricing.

There is no legal requirement to keep the Aspen's database current, but you may want to update it every 6-12 months anyway. For more on the Aspen database issue, see http://dealers.aspenavionics.com/index.php/database.
Click to expand...

You can purchase the aviation database and for that matter, all the GTN databases from Garmin or Jeppesen.
 
John Collins said:
You can purchase the aviation database and for that matter, all the GTN databases from Garmin or Jeppesen.
Click to expand...

You can subscribe through Garmin or Jeppesen (as long as you don't have chartview which is sort of redundant with the Aspen). The NavData (other than the Lite case) still comes from Jeppesen and everything else (other than ChartView plates) comes from Garmin.
 
Here is the operative text from the ASPEN (sample) Flight Manual Supplement:

Database currency date must be acknowledged on the EFD1000 MFD
and EFD500 MFD prior to each flight. Flight with an expired database is
not recommended. Any out of date data displayed on the EMD must
either a) be verified to be correct by the flight crew before use or b) not
be used.​
 
So if you use the Garmin as your nav source and moving map, and use the Aspens as primary and backup AI/HSI devices, you're ok with only the Garmin being current.

That would be the minimum configuration for IFR. You give up a significant portion of the Aspen's features.
 
flyingron said:
You can subscribe through Garmin or Jeppesen (as long as you don't have chartview which is sort of redundant with the Aspen). The NavData (other than the Lite case) still comes from Jeppesen and everything else (other than ChartView plates) comes from Garmin.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that you can download everything from the Garmin site with the exception of ChartView. If you select FliteChart then you get everything from Garmin. Prior to the GTN series, Aviation Data only came from Jeppesen, now you have a choice and can get all the relevant stuff from either location for the GTN. If you subscribe to one of the chart products, then it makes sense to download everything from the appropriate provider.
 
John Collins said:
My understanding is that you can download everything from the Garmin site with the exception of ChartView. If you select FliteChart then you get everything from Garmin. Prior to the GTN series, Aviation Data only came from Jeppesen, now you have a choice and can get all the relevant stuff from either location for the GTN. If you subscribe to one of the chart products, then it makes sense to download everything from the appropriate provider.
Click to expand...

My observation is regardless where you PAY for it, the downloads come from the person who provides it. That is: Jeppesen for the NavData, Garmin for just about everything else. The difference is you can't BUY a chartview subscription through Garmin.
 
flyingron said:
My observation is regardless where you PAY for it, the downloads come from the person who provides it. That is: Jeppesen for the NavData, Garmin for just about everything else. The difference is you can't BUY a chartview subscription through Garmin.
Click to expand...

If you don't get the Jeppesen product for charts, you can purchase it and download everything directly from the Garmin website without any interaction with Jeppesen. In other words Gamin distributes the GTN aviation database. Jeppesen also distributes it, but not exclusively. Jeppesen is a subcontractor to Garmin for the aviation database. One stop shopping from either Garmin or Jeppesen. I know of GTN owners that have no involvement what so ever with Jeppesen.
 
Wow! Thanks for the replies. Felt like I flew into a swarm of locusts -- you guys are hitting me from all angles. So if I get this correct, it should be:

GTN 650 -- need current database either from Garmin or Jepp, subscription cycle
GTN 650 -- Chartview is not applicable (only on the 750)
Aspen PFD -- should have database updated, correct? From Jepp only
Aspen MFD -- should have database updated, correct? From Jepp only
Aspen MFD -- optional charts from Seattle Avionics

Am I missing anything?

I'm also looking through the Aspen Synthetic Vision stuff. That is not going to be installed, but if I had it, it also has a database.
 
John Collins said:
If you don't get the Jeppesen product for charts, you can purchase it and download everything directly from the Garmin website without any interaction with Jeppesen. In other words Gamin distributes the GTN aviation database. Jeppesen also distributes it, but not exclusively. Jeppesen is a subcontractor to Garmin for the aviation database. One stop shopping from either Garmin or Jeppesen. I know of GTN owners that have no involvement what so ever with Jeppesen.
Click to expand...

That's good to know. These databases look to be pretty expensive on a subscription basis. It does look like Jepp offers a bundle if you have two navigators.

As for charts, I have been using both Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight since last year (the cost of both databases is cheaper than my old paper subscriptions and I am trying both out to see which one I will stay with). Although I have a backup for the iPad in the form of the iPhone, I do like the idea of the charts being displayed on the Aspen MFD, especially since I think they are geo-referenced (haven't gotten that far in the manual yet to confirm).

Jepp was my only source for a long period of time -- I haven't missed the hours of upgrading my approach books -- though I do miss all the coffee I drank while doing it!
 
Marauder said:
Wow! Thanks for the replies. Felt like I flew into a swarm of locusts -- you guys are hitting me from all angles. So if I get this correct, it should be:

GTN 650 -- need current database either from Garmin or Jepp, subscription cycle
GTN 650 -- Chartview is not applicable (only on the 750)
Aspen PFD -- should have database updated, correct? From Jepp only
Aspen MFD -- should have database updated, correct? From Jepp only
Aspen MFD -- optional charts from Seattle Avionics

Am I missing anything?

I'm also looking through the Aspen Synthetic Vision stuff. That is not going to be installed, but if I had it, it also has a database.
Click to expand...

Aspen database FAQ: http://www.aspenavionics.com/support/database/#1a
 
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