Requesting Flight Following From Non-Towered Airport

jollyroger

jollyroger

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jollyroger
Falling into the "I can't believe I never thought of this before" category. I depart from KWVI IFR once and a while and call up Nor-Cal on the local RCO frequency to get my clearance. Works just fine.

I've read recently that it is advisable to request flight following from ground at towered airports to help the controllers coordinate your flight. Makes sense but I have a Bay Tour coming up and it got me to wondering if I should request flight following on the ground before departing on the RCO since we don't have a tower.

I'm not sure if the advantages are the same since at non-towered airports there is no hand off between the local tower and approach so I don't know if requesting ahead of time offers any benefit, or even if it increases the workload on the controller since they now have to look for you when you are not even in the air yet.

Any of you controllers/pilots out there have an opinion or experience in that regard?
 
I use to do this out of a non-towered airport during my training. Was pretty much the same clearance on the ground as in the air with the exception of getting a zulu time to be airborne and a zulu time to expect my IFR clearance to be cancelled if I wasn't in the air by then.

We did it both ways for training and during a Tower tour once the guys actually preferred us calling on the ground cause they said not only did it warn them that we were coming but to also be able to relay any corrections to the departure aircraft while they were on the ground instead of having to do it in the air and creating any undue delays or confusion to the pilots.

I myself prefer to do it on the ground, I'd rather be there making any corrections if needed then being in the air and possibly getting distracted, especially during those bumpy climb outs during IMC.
 
If there's an RCO, go ahead and ask before takeoff. It saves the controller on the scope some work and reduces both talking on the sector freq and cockpit workload once airborne. Once you get your squawk and freq, go back to CTAF for takeoff and switch to the ATC freq once well clear of the pattern.
 
Kevin H. said:
I use to do this out of a non-towered airport during my training. Was pretty much the same clearance on the ground as in the air with the exception of getting a zulu time to be airborne and a zulu time to expect my IFR clearance to be cancelled if I wasn't in the air by then.

We did it both ways for training and during a Tower tour once the guys actually preferred us calling on the ground cause they said not only did it warn them that we were coming but to also be able to relay any corrections to the departure aircraft while they were on the ground instead of having to do it in the air and creating any undue delays or confusion to the pilots.

I myself prefer to do it on the ground, I'd rather be there making any corrections if needed then being in the air and possibly getting distracted, especially during those bumpy climb outs during IMC.
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Oops, I don't think I was being clear, I'm talking about flight-following, I mentioned IFR to explain that I request IFR clearances on the ground, but was wondering if I should get flight following set up on the ground using the RCO frequency before departure from a non-towered airport.
 
The Mountain View RCO has been out for months, though I'd guess you'd use the Salinas RCO instead down there.

Coming out of WVI, you have a lot of time before you get into Class B. Contact NorCal when clear of WVI, and ask for a Bay Tour. All the locals know this means flight following and a Class B transition (or you can just be explicit about that).
 
Okay after looking around i may be talking about an RTR as opposed to an RCO. The freq we use on the ground at Watsonville is the same as APP/DEP which is 127.15. I thought I had all these TLA straight but apparently not :nonod:

In any case Ron says yes and MAKG1 says no. I may try it and see what they say.
 
jollyroger said:
In any case Ron says yes and MAKG1 says no. I may try it and see what they say.
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There ya go - the worst that can happen is they say "Unable." They can't take away your birthday.
 
Whether that works differs from facility to facility, and controller to controller.

At VKX, my home field inside the Washington DC FRZ, I'm required to always call approach control on the ground prior to departure to get my squawk code. Several times I've asked to coordinate Flight Following but I've always been told to tell the controller once airborne. It's particularily annoying since the controller that I'm supposed to talk to on intital contact in the air is usually a special SFRA controller who cannot provide proper "flight following" and must hand me off to a controller who exclusively handles IFR traffic.
 
My home airport isn't towered, but I can usually get flight following out of Johnstown very easily. If I'm going to the north I usually get handed off to Clevelenad Center or Youngstown shortly after takeoff, but it's a good feeling during the XC flights to know that someone is watching me. (Maybe that's just the newbie in me though...)
 
jollyroger said:
In any case Ron says yes and MAKG1 says no. I may try it and see what they say.
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I think MAKG1 said a) the RCO there is out so it won't work there, and b) there is no requirement for contacting them on the ground as you have a long way to the airspace where ATC contact is required. However, I don't think MAKG1 was saying you should not try it if there's a working RCO.
 
jollyroger said:
Falling into the "I can't believe I never thought of this before" category. I depart from KWVI IFR once and a while and call up Nor-Cal on the local RCO frequency to get my clearance. Works just fine.

I've read recently that it is advisable to request flight following from ground at towered airports to help the controllers coordinate your flight. Makes sense but I have a Bay Tour coming up and it got me to wondering if I should request flight following on the ground before departing on the RCO since we don't have a tower.

I'm not sure if the advantages are the same since at non-towered airports there is no hand off between the local tower and approach so I don't know if requesting ahead of time offers any benefit, or even if it increases the workload on the controller since they now have to look for you when you are not even in the air yet.

Any of you controllers/pilots out there have an opinion or experience in that regard?
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If by coordinating your flight you mean entering it into the ATC flight data processing computer to facilitate radar handoffs along your route you can easily do it yourself online. Enter an IFR flight plan, but use "VFR" or "VFR/nn" as the requested altitude, where nn is the planned VFR cruising altitude in hundreds of feet; "VFR/55 if planning to cruise at 5500 MSL, for example.

Calling FSS to do this will probably be understood as wanting to file a VFR flight plan which will send nothing to ATC.
 
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Yea like I posted earlier, I think I may have been mistaken of what a RCO is. The frequency we call is the same frequency that we are switched to when we contact Departure/Approach in that area and what is listed in the A/FD as the radar frequency.

I may have the terminology wrong but from what I understand Watsonville has an antenna nearby that allows easy communication between pilots on the ground and TRACON. That is what I would propose calling and say that I'm on the ground at Watsonville and would like the Bay Tour.
 
jollyroger said:
Yea like I posted earlier, I think I may have been mistaken of what a RCO is. The frequency we call is the same frequency that we are switched to when we contact Departure/Approach in that area and what is listed in the A/FD as the radar frequency.

I may have the terminology wrong but from what I understand Watsonville has an antenna nearby that allows easy communication between pilots on the ground and TRACON. That is what I would propose calling and say that I'm on the ground at Watsonville and would like the Bay Tour.
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In most cases, what is referred to as an RCO provides communication with someone at a flight data position at the facility, not the controller on the scope for that sector. If you just happen to be near enough to the antenna for the operational controller for that sector to be able to communicate while on the ground, it's a somewhat different story. Just make sure the controller knows you're on the ground when you call, but there's no reason you can't give the controller the data and obtain your squawk before takeoff.
 
jollyroger said:
Yea like I posted earlier, I think I may have been mistaken of what a RCO is. The frequency we call is the same frequency that we are switched to when we contact Departure/Approach in that area and what is listed in the A/FD as the radar frequency.
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RCOs are a tool of FSS, RTRs are a tool of approach, and RCAGs are a tool of Center. What's the difference in the equipment? Beatsthehellouttame.
 
Ron Levy said:
I think MAKG1 said a) the RCO there is out so it won't work there, and b) there is no requirement for contacting them on the ground as you have a long way to the airspace where ATC contact is required. However, I don't think MAKG1 was saying you should not try it if there's a working RCO.
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Oh no, there's nothing wrong with trying. Except using the Mountain View RCO. The worst they will do is tell you to contact NorCal after departing.

I had that experience when asking KPDX Tower for flight following, prior to taking off from KVUO (required contact per local procedure -- KVUO is one of those mythical nontowered Class D airports). They told me to contact Seattle Center when clear of Class D. Not a big deal.
 
roncachamp said:
RCOs are a tool of FSS, RTRs are a tool of approach, and RCAGs are a tool of Center. What's the difference in the equipment? Beatsthehellouttame.
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While those acronyms may make a difference to controllers, they aren't important to pilots. They function the same from a pilot's perspective, and the only difference is who's on the other end of what amounts to a very long headset cord running from the transmitter/receiver at the remote location to the controller/specialist, and that information is printed on the chart with the frequency/location of the remote site.

The significant difference to pilots is RCO vs GCO. RCO's are treated like any other ground radio station (push to talk, release to listen). GCO's are hooked up to a telephone, and involve the business of clicking some number of times depending on whom you're trying to reach, and have the annoying limitation of dsconnecting if the pilot doesn't transmit for some number of seconds (a problem if you're holding for release or waiting for the flight data person to get the clearance from the system).
 
roncachamp said:
RCOs are a tool of FSS, RTRs are a tool of approach, and RCAGs are a tool of Center. What's the difference in the equipment? Beatsthehellouttame.
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Gear is pretty much the same. Different names is mostly just organizational bureaucracy and which contract paid for it, etc. There aren't too many players ok the market, so the bids get filled by a small number of players. Niche market.

Mostly just a big hint as to who pays for the telco circuit. ;)
 
I tried to use the RCO to set up flight following in the Houston Approach airspace... no joy. It was also a pain to get them to set you up for flight following out of the local area with a non-local code. Had to leave a towered field for that to happen. Otherwise about 40 miles east it was "radar svc terminated, contact....."
 
Well after all that, the freq was so busy it turned out to be easier to launch, wait for the freq to die down a little and then make my request. Oh well it still worked out.

Man, San Franciso is beautiful at night! :yes:
 
Weather was nnnnniiiiiicccccccccccceeeeeeee last night. And all day yesterday and today. Glad you made it.
 
What do controllers prefer in this situation? If I am going to depart from a airport that is under the outer shelf of a class C or B and not enter the Charlie or Bravo, is it preferable to call approach and tell them on the ground before leaving or after popping up and moving?

I will be requesting flight following as soon as possible after departing.
 
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the question, but I fly out of an uncontrolled airport and do have the ability to contact PVD approach on the ground but I wait until I’m airborne and clear of the pattern. I call them up and request FF to wherever. They give me a squawk while in route and I’m on my way. Not really all that complicated, so maybe I missed something? :dunno:
 
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Most of the towered areas where I go tell you to contact center when in the air to request flight following. In the non-towered environment I try to contact them as I am getting ready to leave the pattern, just because of work load before that, and sometimes before that I am too low to get a clear signal from them. More times than not they tell me to wait anyway.
 
Almost invariably, if there's an RCO and I call them on the ground for VFR flight following, the most they'll do is give me the freq to call when airborne.
 
jollyroger said:
Yea like I posted earlier, I think I may have been mistaken of what a RCO is. The frequency we call is the same frequency that we are switched to when we contact Departure/Approach in that area and what is listed in the A/FD as the radar frequency.

I may have the terminology wrong but from what I understand Watsonville has an antenna nearby that allows easy communication between pilots on the ground and TRACON. That is what I would propose calling and say that I'm on the ground at Watsonville and would like the Bay Tour.
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By the way, I think the antenna for that ATC frequency (127.15) is actually on the field.
 
My daughter is moving to Odessa, TX and I want to use KODO. The traffic pattern is 4000 and the class C shelf starts at 4600 over this airport. Not a lot of wiggle room.

I just was wondering if they wanted to know before I left the ground or hey surprise here I am just a a mere 1000 feet below the Charlie when the radar picks me up and they haven't a clue what my intentions are.

Was just curious as this happens daily anyway.
 
You're legal to enter Class C as soon as you establish two way communication with Approach, unless instructed otherwise. No rules about a squawk code or flight following.
 
I go into KODO and KMAF all the time, that is routinely. It's not a big deal. If you are departing the area to the west just leave and contact center as you climb high enough or you can contact midland departure and ask for FF. If you are crossing thru their air space then call them on the ground before take off. The freq. for clearance delivery is on a sign next to the runways.
Or you could fly south a little bit and cut over and never have to bother with KMAF departure just go straight to center.
However, the KMAF ATC folks are pretty helpful. I've met a number of them taking students for tower tours.
 
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Thanks Jeanie,

It looked like an easy escape to the west and only slightly longer south. I will just call on the climb out and be prepared to deviate south as a direct back to my house is almost thru the middle of the Class C.
 
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