Replacing Cylinders on a Continental O-470R: Airboss Cylinders

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JoseCuervo

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JoseCuervo
Looks like there may be somewhere between 1 and 6 cylinders needing to be replaced on my engine. They are currently chrome cylinders of varying age, condition, and compression.

It has been suggested that Airboss cylinders might be a good direction to go.

Any insight on them?
 
Air Boss cylinders are factory Continental cylinders, if you were wondering. So apply all which you have heard about factory cylinders and make your decision based on that.

I've been using them for a few years now on some overhauls I've done. The kits seem good but we'll really know how good they are in 500-1000 hours. Unfortunately, the engines I've done with them are on low use airplanes so they won't see that many hours in the near future.
 
Superior's will be steel. Continentals are what used to be ECI and you can get either steel or nickel.

The last cylinders I bought were nickel and they worked great. Superior is shipping me a new engine in the next day or two that has Millenniums on it. My 180 has Millenniums on it, too. They all work well.
 
Stewartb said:
Superior's will be steel. Continentals are what used to be ECI and you can get either steel or nickel.
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Got a reference for that? no one else seems to know that for sure.
 
As I've responded to you before, call Continental and ask them. That's what I did.
http://www.continentalsanantonio.com

The OP can also pick up a phone and call Superior in the Dallas area to check on cylinder availability. Their customer service is top notch. I've been swapping emails with them already this morning.
http://www.superiorairparts.com
 
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mondtster said:
Air Boss cylinders are factory Continental cylinders, if you were wondering. So apply all which you have heard about factory cylinders and make your decision based on that.

I've been using them for a few years now on some overhauls I've done. The kits seem good but we'll really know how good they are in 500-1000 hours. Unfortunately, the engines I've done with them are on low use airplanes so they won't see that many hours in the near future.
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Since I haven't heard anything about "factory cylinders" can you share what I have been ignoring?


What should be the life on cylinders for an o-470?
 
If you need to replace three, would you replace all six?


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Continental and Superior are the options for new. You can also choose overhauled cylinders from the cylinder shop of your choice including performance shops like Ly-Con. I have friends who prefer that.
 
Stewartb said:
As I've responded to you before, call Continental and ask them. That's what I did.
http://www.continentalsanantonio.com

The OP can also pick up a phone and call Superior in the Dallas area to check on cylinder availability. Their customer service is top notch. I've been swapping emails with them already this morning.
http://www.superiorairparts.com
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Thanks for the reference, their web page is a new one. OBTW ECI's customer service has always been great.
 
JoseCuervo said:
If you need to replace three, would you replace all six?


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Does the entire exhaust have to be remove to get at the "three"? If that is so, and very time consuming and expensive (like pretty much anything turbocharged) then yes, all 6.

If no, many aircraft that have separate exhausts for each bank of cylinders, then I'd lean toward just the three on one side.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Was ECI good or bad?


You recommend steel or nickel?
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I have never had a problem with ECI cylinders, the oil consumption was very low from the start. less than 1 qt on the first 25 hours.
IMHO low usage engines should have the nickel cylinders.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Since I haven't heard anything about "factory cylinders" can you share what I have been ignoring?


What should be the life on cylinders for an o-470?
Click to expand...

In a nutshell, Continental has been known in the past to produce cylinders that need a valve job at around the 500 hour mark. Depending on who you ask, the problems are fixed or the problems aren't fixed. In my opinion buying any manufacturer's cylinders is a gamble because the quality of what that company produces today won't be known for several years.

Based on what I see with the Continental cylinder kits, I think Continental has made some nice improvements to the product. Those improvements do not make up for poor machining however, therefore I am unsure if these new cylinders will be any more durable than the previous cylinders that were manufactured about 10-15 years ago. Only time and use will tell.
 
Stewartb said:
Continental and Superior are the options for new. You can also choose overhauled cylinders from the cylinder shop of your choice including performance shops like Ly-Con. I have friends who prefer that.
Click to expand...

My mechanic mentioned Airboss as a possible solution.

I think I want new.
 
bnt83 said:
Does the entire exhaust have to be remove to get at the "three"? If that is so, and very time consuming and expensive (like pretty much anything turbocharged) then yes, all 6.

If no, many aircraft that have separate exhausts for each bank of cylinders, then I'd lean toward just the three on one side.
Click to expand...


Worst option, it is 2 on one side, 1 on the opposite side.
 
Tom-D said:
I have never had a problem with ECI cylinders, the oil consumption was very low from the start. less than 1 qt on the first 25 hours.
IMHO low usage engines should have the nickel cylinders.
Click to expand...

Been flying 75-100 hours per year.

I would assume similar in the future.
 
Tom-D said:
I have never had a problem with ECI cylinders, the oil consumption was very low from the start. less than 1 qt on the first 25 hours.
IMHO low usage engines should have the nickel cylinders.
Click to expand...

Of the aftermarket cylinders, I thought the ECi cylinders were better than the Superiors in my limited experience. I just didn't like the thought of some of the ADs that were being issued on both Superior and ECi cylinders and gravitated toward OE cylinders to avoid some of that.
 
JoseCuervo said:
My mechanic mentioned Airboss as a possible solution.

I think I want new.
Click to expand...

As I said before Air Boss is not another cylinder manufacturer. AERO is just a retailer for the OE Continental cylinders and they buy them in large quantities to resell with their own name on the box.
 
mondtster said:
Of the aftermarket cylinders, I thought the ECi cylinders were better than the Superiors in my limited experience. I just didn't like the thought of some of the ADs that were being issued on both Superior and ECi cylinders and gravitated toward OE cylinders to avoid some of that.
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I've always thought that the exhaust valve rotator in the ECI cylinders was a great addition.
But here is a nit-pic question.
When they were ECI cylinders prior to the change in ownership, we were required to use a 337 to install the STC. Now that the cylinder is now made by the engine type certificate holder do we need a STC to use a new cylinder that came in a ECI box, which still has the STC paper work in the box?
 
mondtster said:
In a nutshell, Continental has been known in the past to produce cylinders that need a valve job at around the 500 hour mark.
Click to expand...
Historically TCM built a steel choked cylinder that had no exhaust rotation device, because ECI held the patient on that. thus short exhaust valve life. Plus the choke caused over heating of the rings during break in, thus high oil usage, and glazed cylinders. Chuck Ney has always said his no choke cylinders ran cooler, and produced better power. I've never used his cylinders, so, I don't know if that is true.
But I do know the OEM cylinders of old, are why the old wives tale of use a mineral oil during break in became law in many eyes. choked cylinders ran hot and produce plenty wear products. the new fine honed ECI run great on Phillips 20W50 and show no wear products in the filter.
We'll see -- as has been said,
 
Im running a O-470U in my 182 that has about about 700 hrs SMOH.

Over the past 3 years of annuals 4 of the 6 cylinders had to be pulled and replaced (1 1st, year, 1 2nd year, 2 this year) so I can vouch for the O-470 midtime cylinder replacement issue.

I guess only 2 more to go!
 
Replaced why? What was wrong with them? The overwhelming fail issue with 470/520 cylinders has always been E valve guide wear and subsequent valve burning. That's an easy fix. Better yet, a good cylinder shop can work the rocker geometry and eliminate most of the problem before it happens.
 
Stewartb said:
Replaced why? What was wrong with them? The overwhelming fail issue with 470/520 cylinders has always been E valve guide wear and subsequent valve burning. That's an easy fix. Better yet, a good cylinder shop can work the rocker geometry and eliminate most of the problem before it happens.
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I should have been more specific... we actually didn't replace the cylinders but they did have to be pulled out and overhauled.

I'm not sure what was causing the issue specifically but they were all because of low compressions
 
Tom-D said:
Historically TCM built a steel choked cylinder that had no exhaust rotation device, because ECI held the patient on that. thus short exhaust valve life. Plus the choke caused over heating of the rings during break in, thus high oil usage, and glazed cylinders. Chuck Ney has always said his no choke cylinders ran cooler, and produced better power. I've never used his cylinders, so, I don't know if that is true.
But I do know the OEM cylinders of old, are why the old wives tale of use a mineral oil during break in became law in many eyes. choked cylinders ran hot and produce plenty wear products. the new fine honed ECI run great on Phillips 20W50 and show no wear products in the filter.
We'll see -- as has been said,
Click to expand...

The addition of rotators on the newer Continental cylinders is one of the things I was referring to when I was talking about the recent improvements made. I'm not sure exactly when Continental incorporated them but I believe they've been doing It for at least 5 years now. The head castings also appear to be of a new design, which may or may not be a good thing compared to the old ones. Oil consumption also went way down with the 4 ring pistons and newer rings they have been using as well. They seem to break in ok on Phillips XC, I did a little experiment with that on my personal plane after having a rather heated debate with one of the older, local mechanics.

I'm curious about your paperwork/stc question. My impression is that Continental is going to be incorporating the ECI manufacturing techniques into what they call their OE cylinders. If that's the case I'd expect that there won't be any paperwork required for the new cylinders.
 
Cylinder STC? I don't recall either Millennium or ECI Titan cylinders using STCs.
 
Stewartb said:
Cylinder STC? I don't recall either Millennium or ECI Titan cylinders using STCs.
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Superior never use a valve rotation device ECI did, that is a major alteration of the cylinder design, thus the STC. at least on the 0-200/0-300.
Big bore cylinders :confused:
 
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