Repainting Fabric

Fearless Tower

Fearless Tower

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Fearless Tower
Pardon my ignorance having never owned a fabric covered plane before, but is it possible to repaint previously painted fabric? If so, is there any special process involved?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Pardon my ignorance having never owned a fabric covered plane before, but is it possible to repaint previously painted fabric? If so, is there any special process involved?
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There is a special process that requires a lot of sanding, and elbow grease.

The proper answer really depends upon what system you have to start with.

replacing the fabric in most cases is easier.
 
Tom-D said:
There is a special process that requires a lot of sanding, and elbow grease.

The proper answer really depends upon what system you have to start with.

replacing the fabric in most cases is easier.
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Not sure yet what system was used, I'll have to ask. Current fabric is only about 5 years old I believe and it has always been hangared.

If it is easier to replace, what do you think it would cost to have a shop replace and paint just the fuselage fabric on a cub sized aircraft?



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Fearless Tower said:
Not sure yet what system was used, I'll have to ask. Current fabric is only about 5 years old I believe and it has always been hangared.

If it is easier to replace, what do you think it would cost to have a shop replace and paint just the fuselage fabric on a cub sized aircraft?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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My understanding is that re-covering an airplane isn't particularly hard but is uber time consuming. i.e. it get's real pricey if you just want to drop it off and pick it up. I explored picking up a very nice PA20 that needed new skin and determined that the cost of a re-skin + paint would be more costly than the the plane would be worth unless I did the work myself, but I couldn't see myself finding the time or desire. If you're that interested in it, the EAA has some good, if not corny, videos on how to do it... that ought to give you an idea.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If it is easier to replace, what do you think it would cost to have a shop replace and paint just the fuselage fabric on a cub sized aircraft?
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I said easier not cheaper, your question's answer $10-12k

Cubcrafters gets 40k for a total recover on a super cub.
 
Tom-D said:
I said easier not cheaper, your question's answer $10-12k

Cubcrafters gets 40k for a total recover on a super cub.
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IIRC 20-25K was the quote I got for a total recover + paint for a PA20.
 
bartmc said:
My understanding is that re-covering an airplane isn't particularly hard but is uber time consuming. i.e. it get's real pricey if you just want to drop it off and pick it up. I explored picking up a very nice PA20 that needed new skin and determined that the cost of a re-skin + paint would be more costly than the the plane would be worth unless I did the work myself, but I couldn't see myself finding the time or desire. If you're that interested in it, the EAA has some good, if not corny, videos on how to do it... that ought to give you an idea.
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the videos are all on u-tube
 
Go to Aircraft Spruce and specialty and plug in this part number in the search window. 09-00738
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not sure yet what system was used, I'll have to ask. Current fabric is only about 5 years old I believe and it has always been hangared.

If it is easier to replace, what do you think it would cost to have a shop replace and paint just the fuselage fabric on a cub sized aircraft?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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What's wrong with the current finish? If it's peeling or cracking, repainting won't fix anything. There's so much work involved in taking off old finish without damaging the fabric that it's easier, as Tom said, to start over and do it right. And it might even be cheaper, too.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
What's wrong with the current finish? If it's peeling or cracking, repainting won't fix anything. There's so much work involved in taking off old finish without damaging the fabric that it's easier, as Tom said, to start over and do it right. And it might even be cheaper, too.

Dan
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There is nothing wrong with the current finish (only 5 years old and always hangared) other than it is a 'unique' paint job that I am not terribly thrilled with, but everything else about the aircraft appears to be in good order. In other words, I could hold out for an airplane with a paint job I like better, but may not be in as good shape, or I can buy this one and repaint or recover the fuselage. I like the wings and tailfeathers as-is.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There is nothing wrong with the current finish (only 5 years old and always hangared) other than it is a 'unique' paint job that I am not terribly thrilled with, but everything else about the aircraft appears to be in good order. In other words, I could hold out for an airplane with a paint job I like better, but may not be in as good shape, or I can buy this one and repaint or recover the fuselage. I like the wings and tailfeathers as-is.
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Poly-fiber --- sand with 400 wet until there is no shine left, and paint it the color you like.

Airtech ---- same thing.

Dope-- re do it from scratch.

razorback -- simply recover the whole aircraft now.

When it is a catalyzed ura finish you can place almost any thing over it. but nothing will stick unless the shine is gone.
 
Tom-D said:
Poly-fiber --- sand with 400 wet until there is no shine left, and paint it the color you like.

Airtech ---- same thing.

Dope-- re do it from scratch.

razorback -- simply recover the whole aircraft now.

When it is a catalyzed ura finish you can place almost any thing over it. but nothing will stick unless the shine is gone.
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Yup. All true.

In Canada the law requires that a system must be used from start to finish; for example, if one uses Poly-Fiber fabric he must also use Poly-Fiber adhesives, basecoats, UV layers, and topcoats. Repairing the finish also requires using that system's components. The reason for this was that mixing systems can result in some serious safety issues, like one manufacturer's basecoats damaging another's adhesives, leaving the fabric inadequately bonded to the airframe. Poly-Fiber even demands that their primers or varnishes be used on airframe parts that will have the fabric glued to them or in contact with basecoats that soak through to the airframe.

I don't know if the US has this law (which also has to do with STC compliance) but the OP would be wise to find out what system he has on his airplane and stick with its topcoats for refinishing for the best outcome.

If it's a urethane finish, he'll add some weight to the airplane by recoating. Some of the other finishes aren't so heavy.

Dan
 
I am going to take a guess here, but if this in on the Pietenpol you are looking at you might want to ask what finish is on it. It could be a non certified fabric system. IF it is you might have an extra option or two. But that would also depend on the varnish used to seal the wood.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Yup. All true.

In Canada the law requires that a system must be used from start to finish; for example, if one uses Poly-Fiber fabric he must also use Poly-Fiber adhesives, basecoats, UV layers, and topcoats. Repairing the finish also requires using that system's components. The reason for this was that mixing systems can result in some serious safety issues, like one manufacturer's basecoats damaging another's adhesives, leaving the fabric inadequately bonded to the airframe. Poly-Fiber even demands that their primers or varnishes be used on airframe parts that will have the fabric glued to them or in contact with basecoats that soak through to the airframe.

I don't know if the US has this law (which also has to do with STC compliance) but the OP would be wise to find out what system he has on his airplane and stick with its topcoats for refinishing for the best outcome.

If it's a urethane finish, he'll add some weight to the airplane by recoating. Some of the other finishes aren't so heavy.

Dan
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What you say about Polyfiber is one of the reasons I do not like the system.

Airtech has none of those restrictions.

I have completed a lot of testing on my own with all the glues and varnishes.

A product known as "5 year clear" sold by Smith and Company is the very best varnish it is a two part ura type with UV protection built in.

all the glues in any approved system will stick to it equally well.

Airtech's UA 55 glue is the fastest glue and goes farther than any other glue because it comes to you as a very thick viscus liquid that you thin 5 to one to use.

Polyfiber is basically the same glue but is already thinned and cost twice as much per unit.

Of all the systems out there Airtech goes on the fastest and the easiest Their primers do not require brushing to adhere to the ceconite, it can be sprayed and penetrate the fabric, stewarts and polyfiber will not, they must be brushed for the first coats.

Airtech is fire and chemical proof, both of the other two systems readily burn, and can be damaged by 100LL stains.

And yes we require STC compliance, But here is the kicker. Once the top coat is applied, you will not be able to tell the difference between Polyfiber, Airtech, Eco-Cryl, Randolph, or any other ura top coat.
 
Tom-D, if I'm ever on the west coast I'm gonna look you up and pick your brain some


-VanDy
 
So are antique/vintage airplane mechs compared to modern a&p's!


-VanDy
 
Your location also factors in the price BIG TIME.

The SAME fabric job that would cost you 10k in Georgia will cost you 30k in kalifornia.

The only other tip I would give would be to always stick with the same system, a plane that was covered with system Y then repainted with system X tend to go to chit after a few years (spiral cracks and all that fun $tuff).
 
Hey! It's easy to repaint. Depends on how you want it to look, and why it's being repainted. A lot of wood and fabric planes gain a hole in the fabric and a simple patch and repaint of the patched area is easy enough. Take an inspection plate the same color as the part that needs painted into a paint store and they'll match the color. Nothing wrong with latex paint for those simple jobs.

I can't imagine any reason to take perfectly good fabric off a plane merely merely because it needs repainted, and frankly I can't imagine why fabric only a few years old on a plane that has been hangared needs replaced. Replacing it is a long and really boring process.
 
tinerj said:
Hey! It's easy to repaint. Depends on how you want it to look, and why it's being repainted. A lot of wood and fabric planes gain a hole in the fabric and a simple patch and repaint of the patched area is easy enough. Take an inspection plate the same color as the part that needs painted into a paint store and they'll match the color. Nothing wrong with latex paint for those simple jobs.

I can't imagine any reason to take perfectly good fabric off a plane merely merely because it needs repainted, and frankly I can't imagine why fabric only a few years old on a plane that has been hangared needs replaced. Replacing it is a long and really boring process.
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It seems that you don't understand STC compliance very well.
 
Tom-D said:
It seems that you don't understand STC compliance very well.
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Perhaps I do, after all, which is why I own and fly homebuilt aircraft.
 
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