Renting sucks

kath

kath

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Katherine
My old FBO in Bedford that I rented from had all kinds of rules, and I whined about them from time to time. Paved runways only, and only 3000-feet length or greater. 3-hour daily minimum if you took the plane for the whole day. IFR flight into IMC only with permission on that day from the chief pilot. (This last one seemed especially silly, since I got my IR from the same school...)

I went into Aero Tech again today to do some more rental paperwork. Learned all about this place's policies for renters. The policies include:

[begin WHINE]

-- Landings only on paved runways. Okay, I could see this one coming... standard thing for tricycle rentals, I suppose. Too bad I can't go visit my friend in Girdwood (which is gravel).

-- Landings only at a list of "approved airports" (which of course are all paved). Since this is Alaska, this list has about 12 or 14 airports on it TOTAL. That is the sum total of places I can go? Once I've been to them all, then what?

-- One-hour checkout required with a CFI every 90 days. Per type aircraft. In other words, if I get checked out in both 150's and 172's, then every 90 days I have to take new checkouts in both (even if I'm a regular and current renter).

-- For instrument-rated renters, no IMC without an instructor aboard. EVER. Under any circumstances. (I asked if I could file IFR. They said sure, as long as I flew within VFR minimums for the whole flight.)

-- $35/hour "standby fee". This is the hourly charge for when the engine's not running, in other words, this is what I have to pay while I'm eating my $100 hamburger at the destination airport restaurant. Oh, but the first half-hour on the ground is free. Gosh, thanks. Can you even get a hamburger in a half-hour? Who would want to?

I think in time I could deal with all these rules... (after all they are safety-related)... except that last one, which will push me over the edge.

Compared to this new place, my old Bedford FBO seems free & easy by comparison. (They at least let me land at Katama after I got specially checked out.)

I left the place feeling steamed, and considering (again) renting from somewhere else. (If I can even find a place that's any better.) I mean, no IMC ever? How am I supposed to get any practice? $35/hour while I eat lunch? I'm just not willing to pay for that! So much for hiking or fishing or doing ANYTHING at my destination. Sure, flying itself is fun, but I also fly in order to go places and see and do things. Such a system would work fine if I were training. But for renting for fun.... Is this normal? Was I spoiled at Bedford? I feel mad and I haven't even gone flying yet.

I am starting to understand why all Alaskan pilots own their own airplanes. They buy them shortly after flying to Palmer, Kenai, Kodiak, Homer, Cordova, Fairbanks... and realizing that renting is a waste of time because everyplace worth going in this whole state is either gravel or water. And that there is no other way to explore all the wonderful possibilities but to buy your own Aviat Husky.

[end WHINE]

Seeking: partnership in gravel-worthy taildragger. Where can I start looking?

--Kath
 
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I've seen and had to deal with the first 4 and lots more restrictions on top of that. VERY ANNOYING!

That last one though. :eek: That's a show stopper. (your BED-WI trip a while back = KAching)
That pushes it well into the cheaper to own category if you're anything like me strolling off to snoop around after landing.

Any chance you can buy something in reasonable condition? Cub or such? Tailwheel with float option would be nice.


<----- Yea me too: done with renting, time to own.
 
Sorry to hear it.
There are tons of airplanes up there, maybe find a multiple-way partnership?
 
Chances are that you are not the only disgusted person with the situation at your rental FBO. Do you know anyone else there that you think that you could form a partnership with?

If you have to find someone and you don't already know them try posting something on the bulletin board at the FBO. Even though you will be leaving the rental part of their business you will now need mechanical assistance, fuel, etc. so keep a good relationship with them.

Lastly, have you looked at what your annual costs have been to date? Compare them to what your ownership costs would be. When I did this I found my hourly cost dropped from $120/hr to $80/hr while my fixed stayed at $500/mo. If I flew the same amount of hours I broke even. That made the purchase a little easier as I figured I would at least drop the hassle factor down. So far that has been the case and I enjoy owning. Maybe the price is right that you may be able to just buy on your own without a partner.

Scott
 
fgcason said:
That last one though. :eek: That's a show stopper. (your BED-WI trip a while back = KAching)
That pushes it well into the cheaper to own category if you're anything like me strolling off to snoop around after landing.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Snooping around is half the fun! Without the snooping, the flight is nearly pointless.
One should spend at least as much time in a place as it took to get there.

--Kath
 
Wow Kath! That stinks. Don't think I'll complain about my FBO after hearing this.
 
AdamZ said:
Wow Kath! That stinks. Don't think I'll complain about my FBO after hearing this.
Click to expand...

Me either. I have never heard of the $35/ hour standby charge. I assume they don't rent to people who actually want to go somewhere.
 
Hey on the bright side Kath it kinda makes owning a no brainer and guilt free.:rolleyes:
 
Try to get a hold of the Short Wing Piper Club Chapter there. To find a point of contact look up the National SWAP on the internet and get the chapter presidents infor. They have a great organization up there and are very active. They sould be able to point you to a nice Pacer or like type of aircraft that is for sale. The one person I know to point you to is Connie Cloud PO Box 71208 Fairbanks, Ak 99707. Also I don't know if Eddie Trimmer is still around but try him at 907-495-5724. He was out of Willow. E-mail kl7mt@potbox.mtaonline.net. Good luck.
 
kath said:
Exactly. Snooping around is half the fun! Without the snooping, the flight is nearly pointless.
One should spend at least as much time in a place as it took to get there.
Click to expand...

Yep. I haven't been there yet (soon??) but from what I've seen, Alaska means you take at least your day pack with you when you land...

That approved 12-14 airport list has to go too. You need to be able to land where your skill and plane will take you even if you stay on actual airports. IMHO gravel and grass are not that big of a deal and you're less likely to bounce anyway.

Maybe start looking for something relatively inexpensive to acquire and simple like some of the stuff that keeps popping up on Window Shopping on the board? (You could rent for IFR capability if you really had to) Even if you had to make a run to the lower 48 to pick it up or have someone fly it up there to you, it'd justify the hassle in the long run.

I grew up with unrestricted access to the family Cherokee when I was on the farm and sort of the same basic situation with a friends CE152 and 172. You may have the hassles of owning but trust me, there is nothing better than walking out and zooming off for as long as you want whenever you want with no restrictions just because...
 
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fgcason said:
Maybe start looking for something relatively inexpensive to acquire and simple like some of the stuff that keeps popping up on Window Shopping on the board?
Click to expand...

Well, I can browse all I want... but there are a few basic challenges to overcome first. It'll be a while before I'm in a position to buy something.

1) I just moved here. I'm still keeping all my grocery store receipts because I'm still figuring out what my actual monthly budget is, what with mortgage, car insurance, health insurance, condo fees etc. and all this other new stuff.

2) I've only got one income. And by myself I wouldn't fly enough. I'd need at least one partner.

3) I don't know ANYBODY. I don't know any mechanics. I don't know any pilots. And from what I've heard Alaska is full of... well, folks who might not quite be up on every AD if ya know what I mean. A guy in my department said he had a pilot friend who was interested in getting a partner for a floatplane. I expressed interest. The guy said of his friend, "Yeah, he's been flying his entire life. Hopes to actually get his license someday." :eek:

4) No goofing off until I get tenure! :D

There are a few other options to be tried out first... including things like driving up to Palmer airport where there is supposedly a taildragger training outfit.

--Kath
 
kath said:
Well, I can browse all I want... but there are a few basic challenges to overcome first. It'll be a while before I'm in a position to buy something.

1) I just moved here. I'm still keeping all my grocery store receipts because I'm still figuring out what my actual monthly budget is, what with mortgage, car insurance, health insurance, condo fees etc. and all this other new stuff.

2) I've only got one income. And by myself I wouldn't fly enough. I'd need at least one partner.

3) I don't know ANYBODY. I don't know any mechanics. I don't know any pilots. And from what I've heard Alaska is full of... well, folks who might not quite be up on every AD if ya know what I mean. A guy in my department said he had a pilot friend who was interested in getting a partner for a floatplane. I expressed interest. The guy said of his friend, "Yeah, he's been flying his entire life. Hopes to actually get his license someday." :eek:

4) No goofing off until I get tenure! :D

There are a few other options to be tried out first... including things like driving up to Palmer airport where there is supposedly a taildragger training outfit.

--Kath
Click to expand...

Once you're checked out, rental places anywhere will usually waive or favorably alter a lot of things like runway quality and daily minimums if you can show them how much money they'll lose by not letting you have your way. It's a mutually beneficial business thing.
 
One thing you guys forget, in Alaska aircraft are a way of life, they are actually used for real movement of food and things needed in every day life.

rental aircraft are for training pilots, not for sight seeing, IF you want to mess around and sight see play with your own money.

Because they know that you are an accident waiting to happen.
 
Kath, those restrictions are ridiculous. I think you are on the right track going up to the airport where they give tailwheel instruction. An actual flight school in the business of giving ratings and endorsements ought to be able to connect you with a potential partner who is licensed. You can also advertise on their (and other flight schools) bulletin boards and on websites for a partner. I know you've already thought of these things.

Give yourself some time. You have had a lot of changes, not to mention the change in budgeting. Also, you are going to make friends with other pilots. It will happen sooner than you think.
 
Kath: Not to give you anything more to think about but is Univ of Alaska where you want to be or is it a stepping stone to somewhere else. These issues may influence your aircraft decisions. Then again aircraft are of course portable. I knew a guy who purchased a 150 in AK and flew it home to Philly. Keep us informed on what you decide to do. Good Luck
 
Hey Toby...I just noticed the phrase on your avitar "Upside down girl no longer"?? Maybe I missed something...are you not flying aerobatics any longer?
 
Jeez. Very few hours for an aircraft so old but at $12.9K! It is almost like a "Hey, what the heck do I have to loose.".

1955 TRI-PACER 1742 TTSN, VFR, Mode-C, fresh annual, all logs, no damage, recent Ceconite, death forces sale. $12,900. (612) 715-0598
 
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Here's another one.

1954 PIPER TRI-PACER, 135hp, TT 2531, SMOH 1540, STOH 238, King transponder, KT78 TSO, King Com, KX125 TSO, Nav/Com GPS combo, KLX 135A, out of annual since May, flies good, good condition except some fabric. Will fly anywhere. $14,500. OK/580) 251-1817, (580) 252-4233
 
1957 160HP TRI-PACER, Ceconite, 2800TT, 490 SMOH, needs updated struts and annual. $16,500. Call TX/(432) 426-3100 day or night
 
1954 PA22, 135 HP, 2850 TT, 550 SMOH, KX145 Nav/Com, excellent shape, always hangared. all logs, $17,000. NY/(518) 856-9912
 
kath said:
Well, I can browse all I want... but there are a few basic challenges to overcome first. It'll be a while before I'm in a position to buy something.
Click to expand...

Yep. I hate conditional modifiers too...

kath said:
There are a few other options to be tried out first... including things like driving up to Palmer airport where there is supposedly a taildragger training outfit.
Click to expand...

One step at a time. You never know, you might run across a better deal in the process even if it's a little more inconvinent.
 
gibbons said:
What's up with the Husky?
Click to expand...

They come from the factory covered with ceconite and DOPE, good for 5-7 years before the dope fails and allows water to enter the rear fuselage area and attack the longerons just like the early Piper rag bags.

The super cub I posted is twice the aircraft, and half the maintenance.

Kath, go see Atlee Dodge, see what they can do for you, they may know some one that will allow you to rent a Private super cub..
 
NC19143 said:
They come from the factory covered with ceconite and DOPE, good for 5-7 years before the dope fails and allows water to enter the rear fuselage area and attack the longerons just like the early Piper rag bags.

The super cub I posted is twice the aircraft, and half the maintenance.

Kath, go see Atlee Dodge, see what they can do for you, they may know some one that will allow you to rent a Private super cub..
Click to expand...

Where is the SuperCub you posted ?
(Nevermind, found it... outstanding plane)
 
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kath said:
I went into Aero Tech again today to do some more rental paperwork. Learned all about this place's policies for renters. The policies include:

[begin WHINE]

-- Landings only on paved runways. Okay, I could see this one coming... standard thing for tricycle rentals, I suppose. Too bad I can't go visit my friend in Girdwood (which is gravel).
Click to expand...

Fairly standard as you say for paved runways.

-- Landings only at a list of "approved airports" (which of course are all paved). Since this is Alaska, this list has about 12 or 14 airports on it TOTAL. That is the sum total of places I can go? Once I've been to them all, then what?
Click to expand...
If you want to go to an airport that is not on the list, you just have to ask the owner (who is almost always available).

-- One-hour checkout required with a CFI every 90 days. Per type aircraft. In other words, if I get checked out in both 150's and 172's, then every 90 days I have to take new checkouts in both (even if I'm a regular and current renter).
Click to expand...

I can see both sides of this argument. As a renter, I would find this annoying, but I believe it is in place for insurance requirements. BTW, AeroTech is one of the few places that the renter is insured.

-- For instrument-rated renters, no IMC without an instructor aboard. EVER. Under any circumstances. (I asked if I could file IFR. They said sure, as long as I flew within VFR minimums for the whole flight.)
Click to expand...

Didn't know this one, but you won't have a lot of chances for flyable IMC up here anyway and keep in mind that the only approach back into Merrill is a GPS approach which none of AeroTech's airplanes are equipped for.

-- $35/hour "standby fee". This is the hourly charge for when the engine's not running, in other words, this is what I have to pay while I'm eating my $100 hamburger at the destination airport restaurant. Oh, but the first half-hour on the ground is free. Gosh, thanks. Can you even get a hamburger in a half-hour? Who would want to?
Click to expand...

This is another 'rule' that is very flexible with permission from the owner. I have taken the Cardinal RG for a couple flights that included 1-2 hour stays at the destination with no standby charge.

Seeking: partnership in gravel-worthy taildragger. Where can I start looking?

--Kath
Click to expand...

Wish I had the $$. I would partner in an instant.
 
Kath, find the income stream for a note on a $20,000 Cessna 140. You'll never look back. Less than a nice car.
 
Well, I went for my first Alaskan XC flight yesterday!
Merrill -> Talkeetna, AK

I feel a lot better about the rental thing (in general) now. A good flight cures some frustration. It took an hour to get off the ground (what with preflights, needing this 'n' that from the front desk, and oh, hey, maybe some fuel would be nice...) so we were running late. Flew slow. Spent about 1 or 1.5 hours on the ground in Talkeetna, walked into town to get some coffee ("town" is very very small -- I think the runway is actually longer than main street), called the FBO from the general store/laundromat to say we were running late and might not get back until after hours. They said no problem, just leave the keys in the plane and tie it down. No extra charges for the time on the ground in Talkeetna. It could be that the "standby" thing is only really enforced if you spend hours and hours and hours somewhere... or during the much-busier summer season demand for planes is higher. We'll see. Must get a feel for things. (No crazy partnership ventures at this time.) :)

It is amazing, though, how much more meaning is carried in the phrase "radar services terminated"... when you are heading out of Anchorage, into a land where there is pretty much no habitation whatsoever. No towns, no cloverleaf interstate intersections, no water towers... no nothing. No one to notice your crash if you're not on a flight plan, except the echos on the mountains. Just one road with no cars on it... a lonely railroad track... a winding river... caught a brief glimpse of Mt. Denali through some scattered clouds. Magnificent!

--Kath
 
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Hey Kath:

Glad to hear the flight went well.

Did you happen to notice the "other" airport in Talkeetna? It is right behind the store, or as I see it, right across the street from the Tavern. It is short and narrow. I think it was the original city airport and it is (or recently was) used.

At the regular airport K2 aviation had bunks you could rent for a nominal charge and the Tavern has rooms above the bar for about $50.00. I have taken a lot of buddies up there in the summer to fish and we use Talkeetna as our basecamp because I love the town, especially when all of the climbers are staging there for their ascent of Denali.

Chris
 
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