Reno Air Race Crash

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Mtns2Skies, Sep 18, 2022.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Final Approach

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    Not sure of details, but it looks horrible.
     
  2. FlightmechH3

    FlightmechH3 Pre-Flight

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    I'm watching the other angles right now.

    It looks like a mechanical problem and he rode it in.

    Rip
     
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  3. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Anyone know what airplane? A friend was racing his Pitts today.
     
  4. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    L29?
     
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  5. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Might be. Just saw another article that it was a jet race
     
  6. Dave Anderson

    Dave Anderson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Was this rudder failure or a G-lock? seems he could have rolled and pitched tragic
     
  7. Dave Anderson

    Dave Anderson Pre-takeoff checklist

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    and this is why i hate news coverage of anything aviation.

    The condition of the crew on board is unknown at this time. The crash happened on lap 3 of 6 during the Jet – Gold Race. A spokeswoman for the air races said it was a single plane crash and all operations have been suspended for the rest of this year's event.
     
  8. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route PoA Supporter

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    That’s terrible. Such little time it seems to get out of trouble. God bless
     
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  9. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Pattern Altitude

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    Besides “crew,” what’s wrong with it?
     
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  10. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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    Really sad day. I was at the event as we volunteer here every year.
     
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  11. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    Was it worth it? I stopped paying attention to Reno a long time ago.
     
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  12. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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    I’ve been coming to the event since 1978. Of course it’s a 20 minute drive and I learned to fly here (and soloed at Stead). It’s been a tough afternoon.
     
  13. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    You and me both. This kind of foolishness gets filed in the same category as STOL competitions. Ultimately, there’s no point in any of it, other than trying to prove who has the largest testicles. Each to their own, but I don’t get the point of these air race spectaculars.
     
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  14. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Historically, air racing, crashes included, is a big part of how we got aviation to where it is today. Read up on the 1920s and 30s. It’s a better source of innovation than war, and the participants know the risks. I doubt I would ever race, but I believe it is should continue as long as there are voluntary participants.
     
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  15. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Back in 1929 and 1930 they were the testing ground for new aerodynamic ideas and after Lindbergh the public couldn’t get enough of aviation. Fast forward to 1949 and surplus WW2 fighters and such. That became the roots of our present day Reno. Some notable sport pilots got involved in the 1960s to resurrect it. ABC Wide World of Sports signed on. Then there was a brief moment of new ideas with Tsunami and the Pond Racer. That faded. After that, it became just another event on the calendar, a sort of coda to end of the summer.
     
  16. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    There are always things being tried in order to get an edge. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t happening.
     
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  17. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    New planes that aren’t for racing rarely have huge innovations. They are about safety and risk reduction. Racing is the opposite, despite efforts at safety, there is an incentive, financial or simply pride to one up the others, and that drives innovation, and it’s still happening today.
     
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  18. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I’m not saying that it should discontinue by any means. It can be fun to watch and I suppose it appeals to a certain group of people; but for me, I don’t find value in it. I’m always sad to see tragedy from stuff like this. :(
     
  19. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    I took my kid 25 years ago. We watched a non-accident midair and an engine out emergency of a Mustang. She met lots of folks in the pits and was particularly fond of one pilot that was especially kind to her. He died the following year in a race accident. My daughter never wanted to learn to fly after that. I can’t imagine the pilot dads in the crowd today with their kids, trying to get them excited about flying. Epic fail. What a waste.
     
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  20. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Unfortunately the Galloping Ghost sorta put a different spin on new things being tried.
     
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  21. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Yep, I agree.
     
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  22. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  23. Warmi

    Warmi Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah it is definitely quite boring to me .. but is is baseball, football, nascar , you name it …so it may be just me …
     
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  24. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Technical Administrator

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    I'm pretty ignorant of air racing in general, and am intimately familiar with aerospace research and development. What are some specific innovations in racing that have made their way into mainstream aerospace development, aircraft, or systems recently?

    Nauga,
    and the dollars per knot rule
     
  25. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    Weird/ wide reversal. very large heading crossing angle, forcing an overshot reversal on the high yo-yo, if the different camera angles are not edited from different time frames for effect. If so, the recommittal was probably higher G than planned, rapid unload/reload to set the lift vector inside his competitor turn circle. Occam says that smells like a GLOC dear friends. G onset can be just as deadly a killer than ultimate G, especially when artificially accentuated (physiologically) by rapid preceding unload (what got the t-bird a few years ago).

    Do these aeros retain g suit pneumatics or do these racers bareback it(sts)?

    Condolences to the surviving family and friends.
     
  26. skyking3286

    skyking3286 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The relative steady descent into the ground would be consistent with a well trimmed airplane without pilot input.
     
  27. Spring Ford

    Spring Ford Line Up and Wait

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    I recently watched a youtube video featuring Robert "Hoot" Gibson. He has raced various piston warbirds at Reno and after that raced his own modified Cassutt Racer. Regarding the P-51 he was specifically asked if he wore a G suit. The reply was - too heavy, we are racing and the weight would be disadvantageous.

    He said that he did not look at the G meter during the races but *as I recall* he said that the recording needle read 6.5G afterwards.

    Obviously this jet might be different.

    The Merlin in the Mustang was run at a manifold pressure of 125 inches (I assume absolute). About 3 atmospheres or 45psi *boost*. They didn't last very long and he did many dead stick landings in various warbirds at Reno.
     
  28. Warmi

    Warmi Line Up and Wait

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    These guys make car racing look like Sunday afternoon family sport.
     
  29. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Your premise is seriously flawed.
     
  30. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack En-Route

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    Yep. For that matter, general aviation itself is really stupid. Just a bunch of rich guys who want to put the public at risk so they can have fun.

    You know what's really stupid... air-to-air photography. These idiots like to fly close together just so they can get a pretty photo of themselves flying their rich-guy machines. So lame.

    Of course I'm joking, but in the aviation community I think I'm in the minority. I'm okay with these events, but I wouldn't blame insurance companies for opting out. I'm not a Mike Patey worshiper like many pilots I've met. You should have seen the crowd around his plane at Oshkosh. He turns money into worship better than most. I still remember when he was crying about the insurance company dropping him on Draco. Weeks after whining... he balled it up acting stupid. Funny how the insurance company saw this coming and dropped him!

    Remember this drama? What a joke this guy is. He started off by saying "Loss of DRACO" even though at that time he hadn't destroyed it yet.

    Loss of DRACO. Sad week and loss for Draco, myself and friends. No, Draco has not crashed or been damaged but it feels a bit like it. I’m heartbroken to report that DRACO airshow performances and racing is over. I have attached a short compilation of DRACO performances and trips from Florida to Alaska and everywhere in between.

    What happened? Sadly in an effort to cross off a bucket list item and race Draco at Reno, I inadvertently lost insurance coverage for all show performances. I am not upset with the insurance companies, we should all be grateful for every company who supports aviation. My provider and underwriter did everything possible to work past this and I am forever grateful to them for the attempt and efforts to get me insured, but after working on this for over a month, time has run out and I just can’t bring myself to pay $45,000/year to do a couple events.

    *See the attached copy of the premium increase, I have cropped the paper to avoid shedding any negative light on the companies.

    To better understand what I was asking of them, they realized the added risk and felt they couldn’t agree to cover Draco at the price I’ve been paying. My policy, as it stood, must reflect to either no longer cover those risks, cancel my policy completely or increase the premium as seen below to do ANY “STOL or airshow demonstrations”.

    I have since learned that I’m not the first. Many before me have been cut from Reno and racing because of the higher value of their aircraft. Many companies have limits of $500,000 or less and the loss risk was simply less to allow more options for less cost.

    My current build, “Scrappy”, won’t have experimental exhibition that limits some insurance, nor will it exceed $500,000, so it will fit into all the categories my friends found insurance with.

    I will focus my efforts and time on my future builds. Fortunately, I am able to still hold insurance and will be flying DRACO to the Reno Air Race to be on static display.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
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  31. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Could he have flamed out in that pass?
     
  32. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Expound?
     
  33. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    You would have seen a rapid negative line of sight rate (LOSR) compared to his competitors if the engine had flamed out. These things are draggy bricks when unpowered, frankly i find them a weird (inefficient) choice for racers.

    At any rate, these trainers have mechanical flight controls, so powerplant status does not affect flight surface actuation. The smooth and slow vertical stack transition leads me to believe the deceased was asleep all the way to impact, with the aircraft settling into its last trimmed pitch position, as post 26 already suggested/alluded to.
     
  34. FancyG

    FancyG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Those that can't, hate.
     
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  35. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Same can be said of any type of racing. You’re either a fan or not. As for me I love going to a good race but ignore all other competitive sports.
     
  36. ateamer

    ateamer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Humans compete with each other. To be the fastest, strongest, climb higher, run farther, make more money, be cooler. A great many are hardwired that way. It’s a good thing. Otherwise we’d still be walking, eating grubs and berries and freezing to death in the winter.
     
  37. GaryM

    GaryM Pattern Altitude

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    I may be back to the 'freezing to death in winter' stage. My fuel oil provider just increased my monthly (12 month plan) fuel oil bill by $300, almost double what it was last year.
     
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  38. robin ardoin

    robin ardoin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games" Ernest Hemmingway.
     
  39. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    What is GLOC?
     
  40. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

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