Renew Medical or go LSA

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Hello everyone.

I am getting to a point where I need to make a decision, to continue with my medical and possibly postpone or miss some doctor visits, and or having to keep track, justify and explain every visit, or go LSA.
I am more inclined to go LSA, and considering to get:
C162, 90K 200 Hrs., Evektor Sport Star Max, 130k, New, or Sling 120K, New.

Location KSNA (John Wayne O.C. SoCal), KLGB (Long Beach), or KFUL (Fullerton), or KTOA (Torrance) tie downs.

I would appreciate your input as to the Insurance, What aircraft, Best location, Taxes, ADs, Fixed costs, and why etc.?
I may want to instruct in it, how will this affect Insurance Medical needed etc.?
Thank you everyone.
 
Unless you're being treated for some disqualifying condition a medical is not a big deal. I go to my regular doctor prior to going in for my medical and have them print out my visits, I put it on my medexpress and it never really matters to the AME. I had to go the ER and put three stitches in my finger. You got better, right? OK, next question. no big thing.
 
Insurance is no big deal. Don't know if there is a "no medical" bump because I already have the taildragger, homebuilt, low hours in type penalties...

You can instruct as a sport pilot instructor without a medical - I would assume that insurance would be no less expensive than a regular instructor.

The 162 seems to be one of the less capable of the new LSAs...
 
If SP works for the mission and you can afford one, in the face of possible disqualification there is no reason not to switch. One less worry in life and one less hoop to jump through. Life has enough hoops.
 
I've renewed both with and without a 3rd class medical. Insurance companies (2) never cared. You might want to consider a CTSW or CTLS. My 2006 CTSW has been largely trouble free, carries a reasonable load with full tanks and is a joy to fly.
 
For all we know the FAA may actually put the kibosh on the third class. Too soon to throw in the towel.
 
I asked my AME this question several years ago and he said the requirements are the same, only certification was different. Light Sport you self certify that you meet the medical requirements versus the AME certifying on regular medical.

LSA does save the trouble of the FAA asking for additional tests or documentation, or disagreeing with your local specialist. Many of us on SIs have found the process not too onerous and a small price to pay to fly non LSA aircraft.

http://www.leftseat.com/sport.htm
 
I asked my AME this question several years ago and he said the requirements are the same, only certification was different. Light Sport you self certify that you meet the medical requirements versus the AME certifying on regular medical.
Your AME is not quite correct. For accurate guidance on Sport Pilot medical issues, I suggest reading the Federal Air Surgeon's web page on that subject.
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/
 
... nice CTSW on Barnstormers for $78k, 169 hours, fully loaded with glass and autopilot
 
Well, I followed the FAA link and found:

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
Long-standing FAA regulation, § 61.53, prohibits all pilots--those who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. The FAA revised § 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots who use a current and valid U.S. driver’s license as medical qualification. The prohibition is also added under §§ 61.23 (c) (2) (iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.

Is there a list medical standards the FAA waives for LSA?
 
Is there a list medical standards the FAA waives for LSA?
There is no list of medical standards for Sport Pilot to waive. The regulatory standard for Sport Pilots operating on a DL in lieu of medical certificate is given in 14 CFR 61.23(c)(2)(iv), and it's simple but unspecific -- the pilot must "Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner". That's all there is to it, but that's a standard which cannot be waived. How does one then decide if a medical condition which would disqualify them for Third Class also disqualifies them for Sport Pilot? Back to the rest of the answer you quoted in part above:
You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. Certain medical information that may be helpful for pilots can be found in our Pilot Safety Brochures.
 
As for the airplanes, I've flown the Sport Star and basically liked it. But it can get pretty hot under that bubble canopy in the summer. I preferred the Tecnam Sierra because you can fly it open-canopy.

-Rich
 
Go lsa take the worry out of it. I like the flight design ctls and the jabiru,light sports.
 
Hello everyone.
Thank you all for your input.
I did some more research and I found some information that may be useful to others.

About the Medical. I think many would consider LSA not because they are having a medical problem at the present time but are trying to prevent one in the future. Many pilots are reluctant to see a doctor because they have to explain, and justify it, to the OK. That can be a long, expensive and difficult task. One example, some one was taking a vasodilator, Procardia XL 20mg?, and 81 mg Aspirin, for improved circulation, suggested by the personal doctor for feeling their feet colder when they went out in cold weather. That triggers a response that the individual has High blood pressure and request for many tests, in addition to information from the personal doctor that there is no blood pressure in the past.
I am sure that many pilots have many other examples. I think that not having to justify and explain a doctor visit to someone can keep pilots healthier, by just going to the doctor anytime they may think they have a problem, and possibility prevent one, and not having to wait until you may have a major problem to deal with.

The approach to health changes with age. When you are young you may be more likely to ignore problems until you find that you have a serious problem that you ignored. As one gets older one tends to be more into preventing something, that requires more doctor visits, until you get to the point that there is not enough paper to write all your visits on. If you miss writing one there is no end to that the end result could be.

The people, fools, that want to circumvent the system will do it, with or without a medical.

It is my hope that that the No 3rd class medical gets passed and I think that would more likely improve the over all safety by having people go their doctors any time they may think they have a problem not wait until after they have one.

We already have a check built into the system, the Flight review. CFIs can tell if your a capable of flying and in good enough physical condition, maybe a Flight review once a year, or go up with a CFI every 6 months may be another way to help it?

To the others about the different Makes, Models I will look into it. Thank you.

And now some information that I was able to compile that I hope helps others.
FBOs that have LSAs have decreased in numbers in the last 4 years. I spoke with many FBO managers and owners and some that tried the LSA route have decided, most after Cessna 162 pulled out, that they will not continue and sold all of their LSAs. Only one new LSA FBO, Sling, that has no birds available presently. There is only one FBO, in SoCal LA area, that I know of, that presently has birds to rent and fly. At one time there were 5.

Evektor has stopped making the Sport Star max, they only make the Harmony, I am not sure how this will affect the support but I think the price has increased.

Cessna 162 no longer in production, not known what the support will be like in the future. Many ADs and some ongoing visits to the A&Ps on regular basis required.

Sling, not available for demo / flying, new, unknown questionable.

The minimum cost, fixed costs only, ti downs regular maintenance etc., no engine, repairs, lost interest on the money invested etc., is around $10,000.00 / year. You would have to fly about 100 hrs / year to brake even, assuming you find a place to rent for around $100.00.
Thank you, everyone again.
 
My philosophy is that I'll keep going in every other year for my medical. So far for me it's been no big thing and while I will discuss with my other doctors any drugs they want to prescribe me, I don't allow me having a medical affect my other medical treatment.

If it gets to the point where the prognosis of keeping a medical looks dicey, I'll do as Ted Kennedy would say, drive off that bridge when I come to it. Hopefully either the no-medical private will be around (I'll forgo flying IFR) or I'll trade the Navion in on some light sport (we're thinking seriously of Sea Rays or something like that living on the lake here).
 
Hopefully either the no-medical private will be around (I'll forgo flying IFR)
My personal guess based on taking with people in Flight Standards is that no-medical IFR isn't off the table completely, just "not now" -- kind of like "mañana" means South of the Border -- doesn't mean it will or won't necessarily happen tomorrow, just "it won't happen today". What they have done with the DL-medical so far is allowed it for Sport Pilots for 10 years (is it that long now?), and now are considering incremental expansion. I think they want to go with the Day VFR-only option for a few years and see what happens, then see if any further expansion makes sense, but that's just speculation based on history.
 
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There is only one FBO, in SoCal LA area, that I know of, that presently has birds to rent and fly. At one time there were 5.


Not sure on the total numbers in SoCal, there are two just at Santa Monica. Santa Monica Flyers has two Sportcruisers, and they are wildly popular. Last time I looked at the numbers, they had the two highest operations counts of any aircraft on the field (the fact they pay a low landing fee probably helps). They are also asking the city for approval to expand to up to six Sportcruisers.

Also at Santa Monica, Justice Aviation has a Pipistrel Alpha.


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For all we know the FAA may actually put the kibosh on the third class. Too soon to throw in the towel.

It's not throwing in the towel unless you turn in your certificate. You can fly an LSA on a PP with no medical, no worries. If the Class III goes away, you can get into a bigger plane.
 
Not sure on the total numbers in SoCal, there are two just at Santa Monica. Santa Monica Flyers has two Sportcruisers, and they are wildly popular. Last time I looked at the numbers, they had the two highest operations counts of any aircraft on the field (the fact they pay a low landing fee probably helps). They are also asking the city for approval to expand to up to six Sportcruisers.

Also at Santa Monica, Justice Aviation has a Pipistrel Alpha.


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Asking the city for permission to expand a rental fleet? That's ridiculous.
But understanding SMO ops, it figures. Unless there is a shortage of tie downs it should be a no brainer. Increased rentals mean more revenue for the city (taxes and fees). But it also means more noise for the residents to complain about.
 
That was me, by the way, I forgot to log in.. ^^^^ But seriously I will take you up in a Sling if you would like. I get the feeling you'll never want to come back.

There will be two brand new Slings to rent/train in within the month at the Sling Flying Club in Torrance.
 
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I too am considering the LSA route. The question I have about the self certification is this. Let's say you have a condition that would require an SI for a 3rd class certificate, but the condition is being managed by your physician and you are otherwise healthy. Are you good to go or is the fact that you would need an SI disqualifying in and of it self.

Say the SI is for OSA but you are using your machine and are getting the rest you need to feel safe to fly. Is that good enough or is it disqualifying.

Lets say you have a heart murmur and associated condition that would require an SI, but your cardiologist says your fine and above the FAA mins for non issuance of a medical. Are you good to go or is this disqualifying.
 
I too am considering the LSA route. The question I have about the self certification is this. Let's say you have a condition that would require an SI for a 3rd class certificate, but the condition is being managed by your physician and you are otherwise healthy. Are you good to go or is the fact that you would need an SI disqualifying in and of it self.

Say the SI is for OSA but you are using your machine and are getting the rest you need to feel safe to fly. Is that good enough or is it disqualifying.

Lets say you have a heart murmur and associated condition that would require an SI, but your cardiologist says your fine and above the FAA mins for non issuance of a medical. Are you good to go or is this disqualifying.
61.53 Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.

(a) Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, no person who holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter may act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person:
(1) Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation; or
(2) Is taking medication or receiving other treatment for a medical condition that results in the person being unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation.
(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in §61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.
(c) Operations requiring a medical certificate or a U.S. driver's license. For operations provided for in §61.23(c), a person must meet the provisions of—
(1) Paragraph (a) of this section if that person holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter and does not hold a U.S. driver's license.
(2) Paragraph (b) of this section if that person holds a U.S. driver's license.

[/QUOTE]
 
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Good information Jeff, but the crux of my question is this,

while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

If I know from my Dr's evaluation that my OSA is controlled then am I able to certify that I am safe?

If I know from my Cardiologists evaluation and testing that my condition is under control and better than the minimum requirements of the FAA, and I able to certify that I am safe?
 
I think most of us want to be legal and avoid being less than truthful, but it seems in this day and age that the FAA is looking for reasons to deny our medicals.

The fears I and many people have is that we can jump through all the hoops and meet all the requirements and still be denied our medicals, or at least have a barrage of tests thrown at us that make it financially prohibitive to fly.

We are not flying the heavy iron that has the potential to injure or kill many on the ground or on board and if my memory serves me correctly the last two pilots to have heart attacks in the air had first class medicals.
 
Good information Jeff, but the crux of my question is this,

while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

If I know from my Dr's evaluation that my OSA is controlled then am I able to certify that I am safe?

If I know from my Cardiologists evaluation and testing that my condition is under control and better than the minimum requirements of the FAA, and I able to certify that I am safe?

If you and your doctor believe that you are safe, then you don't have any reason to know that you have a medical condition that would make you unable... Eh?

There is a FAQ somewhere on the FAA aeromedical site that says something like "consult with your doctor".
 
If your doctor believes you are safe to drive,and doesn't recommend you stop flying,I would go light sport.
 
I too am considering the LSA route. The question I have about the self certification is this. Let's say you have a condition that would require an SI for a 3rd class certificate, but the condition is being managed by your physician and you are otherwise healthy. Are you good to go or is the fact that you would need an SI disqualifying in and of it self.

Say the SI is for OSA but you are using your machine and are getting the rest you need to feel safe to fly. Is that good enough or is it disqualifying.

Lets say you have a heart murmur and associated condition that would require an SI, but your cardiologist says your fine and above the FAA mins for non issuance of a medical. Are you good to go or is this disqualifying.

You are not self certifying that you meet any medical standard needed for any other certificate. You are certifying that you are in a safe condition to make the current flight. If you think there is something in your condition that would preclude safely operating the airplane, you should not take the flight.

If you have medical conditions you should talk them over with your doctor and make sure you understand all of the potential situations that could arise on a chronic or acute basis related to your specific condition(s), so that you can make informed decisions.
 
I too am considering the LSA route. The question I have about the self certification is this. Let's say you have a condition that would require an SI for a 3rd class certificate, but the condition is being managed by your physician and you are otherwise healthy. Are you good to go or is the fact that you would need an SI disqualifying in and of it self.
The need for an SI is not in and of itself disqualifying for Sport Pilot privileges. What it requires is that you consult your physician to decide if you can safely exercise Sport Pilot privileges despite the condition which would without an SI disqualify you for any medical certificate. If you and your doc agree you're safe to fly Sport Pilot, you're good to go.
 
Good information Jeff, but the crux of my question is this,

while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

If I know from my Dr's evaluation that my OSA is controlled then am I able to certify that I am safe?
It is not in and of itself grounding for Sport Pilot operations. Beyond that, it's up to you and your doc.

If I know from my Cardiologists evaluation and testing that my condition is under control and better than the minimum requirements of the FAA, and I able to certify that I am safe?
Ditto.
 
If your doctor believes you are safe to drive,and doesn't recommend you stop flying,I would go light sport.
Safe to drive and safe to fly (even Sport Pilot) are not the same. Make sure when you consult your physician you are open, honest, and candid about what you intend to do.
 
Safe to drive and safe to fly (even Sport Pilot) are not the same. Make sure when you consult your physician you are open, honest, and candid about what you intend to do.

If you read my post I mentioned that your doctor doesn't recommend you stop flying. I would always defer to my doctors advise.
 
If you read my post I mentioned that your doctor doesn't recommend you stop flying. I would always defer to my doctors advise.
I guess my point to make sure your doctor understands exactly what's involved -- and that being safe to drive is not the same as being safe to fly. I'm sure there are plenty of doctors who would not understand that fully.
 
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