Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor - Now with NUDE PICS!

[Greebo]

My wife and I are becoming avid DIYers, and right now we're in the middle of a remodel of a small room upstairs which during its lifespan has been a bedroom and a kitchen.

We are nearly done with mudding and taping and are about ready to paint, and then we'll be turning our attention to the floor.

We first considered putting in a swiftlock laminate floor, but we've been looking at the original, 66 year old hardwood, and think it may be salvagable if we can clean it and sand it and then treat it properly.

Stuck to the floor, however, is old rosin paper that was put down under the vinyl floor that was installed when the room became a kitchen. The paper is very old and was glued down, not tacked. Removing it is a pain, but we can scrape it up, however its a very slow and tedious process.

I think we can speed the process by soaking the paper with a mild soap solution, and then scrape it up after a couple of minutes.

Any experience or thoughts on the subject?

Also I'm thinking if we're going to sand and stain and seal the floor, we should do that before painting, and then protect the floor while we paint.

Thanks for the input in advance!

 

[markb5900]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

We just did the exact same thing in my sons house.
We found if you use a heat gun it comes up pretty quickly.
We did his entire living room in about 2 hours using 2 heat guns and scrapers and it did a much "nicer" job getting the adhesive up also.

Mark B.

 

[Missa]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

My wife and I are becoming avid DIYers, and right now we're in the middle of a remodel of a small room upstairs which during its lifespan has been a bedroom and a kitchen.

We are nearly done with mudding and taping and are about ready to paint, and then we'll be turning our attention to the floor.

We first considered putting in a swiftlock laminate floor, but we've been looking at the original, 66 year old hardwood, and think it may be salvagable if we can clean it and sand it and then treat it properly.

Stuck to the floor, however, is old rosin paper that was put down under the vinyl floor that was installed when the room became a kitchen. The paper is very old and was glued down, not tacked. Removing it is a pain, but we can scrape it up, however its a very slow and tedious process.

I think we can speed the process by soaking the paper with a mild soap solution, and then scrape it up after a couple of minutes.

Any experience or thoughts on the subject?

Also I'm thinking if we're going to sand and stain and seal the floor, we should do that before painting, and then protect the floor while we paint.

Thanks for the input in advance!

Hot water, Simple green and a bit of soak time works wonders. Takes one soaking to get the paper off and one to get the adhesive so you can scrape it in one pass. Make sure to have some paper around to put the sluge on so you don't mess the water up so quickly. (I just took that up in my kitchen).

Also it's much better to work top down. Paint the ceiling then the walls then the trim, then do the floor. Don't even bother removing the paper untill after you've painted. Any paint you drip will come up with the paper (Keep a wet rag with out and wipe it up if you drip but don't worry to much about it). And if you need any help... it's a short flight out to Williamsport for all the pratice and coaching you might need.

Oh, and don't use Minwax poly to seal the floor. Everytime I've used it, it bubbles. I like the Sherwin-Williams brand of poly for the floor. You have to ask for it at the counter because they usually keep it in back.

Missa

 

[Greebo]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Well the paper is partially off already, so when we paint, we'll be putting drop plastic down anyway...

Is simple green ok for wood? I'm leery about putting *any* chemicals on the floor, even soap...

 

[Missa]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Well the paper is partially off already, so when we paint, we'll be putting drop plastic down anyway...

Is simple green ok for wood? I'm leery about putting *any* chemicals on the floor, even soap...

Well, I have to admit I didn't read the bottle (But I can when I get home) For me it was on the sub floor not a hardwood floor and I intend to go over with tile. If it's hard wood and was once sealed you should be ok. You will generally not be going into the wood just onto the old polly. You will then have to remove the old polly (Heat gun/chemical stripper/sanding). The heat gun suggestion might be better becuase of this. If there is polly then the heat gun is actually removing the polly and just getting the glue and paper off with it. (I remove paint from moulding this way). The real question is what's under the glue?

I'd still not finish the floor till the walls are done. If something happends to the floor it's easier and less painfull if you haven't just finished it.

Missa

 

[Greebo]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Its 65 year old hardwood, and I don't know what it was sealed with, if anything. It doesn't look like it has a poly seal, though.

I was agreeing that painting should come first, just that we'll still be putting cloth down over the old paper.

Our original plan was to put in new laminate - but now that the vinyl is up and we can see the original hardwood, we'd like to try to save it. If we can't, well, plan A is still there.

 

[Missa]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Its 65 year old hardwood, and I don't know what it was sealed with, if anything. It doesn't look like it has a poly seal, though.

I was agreeing that painting should come first, just that we'll still be putting cloth down over the old paper.

Our original plan was to put in new laminate - but now that the vinyl is up and we can see the original hardwood, we'd like to try to save it. If we can't, well, plan A is still there.

Remodleing is always full of suprises, some good, some bad, and some really ULGY. I'm in the camp of save as much of the good stuff as possible. In my house someone painted over a very nice mahogny stained window moulding with harvest gold paint matched with strawberry wall paper and blue curtians. And as far as the house is concerned that the bad part... the ulgy part was the wire splices without junction boxes in at least 3 rooms so far and the 1/2" notches taken out of a few studs so they could make an alcove for the refrigrator under the stairs.

I'm really sick of doing dishes in the bathtub....

Missa

 

[wsuffa]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Chuck,

As the owner of my second 1920's vintage house, I can sympathize with Missa's comments. She is exactly on the mark regarding surprises.

I, personally, would do things in a slightly different order based on my experiences. Sanding the floor will kick up an immense amount of dust. And if the paint is not "cured" - for enamel, that's a couple of weeks at least - you run the risk of having the dust ruin your paint job.

So, I'd sand the floor (rent a big floor sander - they're relatively cheap and the will do a great job of smoothing the floor). Scrape off as much of the rosin paper as you can, the rest ought to be able to sanded off. Yes, you'll take off a layer of wood - probably lose about 1/16", maybe a bit more, depending on condition.

After sanding the floor, vacuum and wipe everything carefully. Get ALL the dust up. Likewise, prep/sand/smooth the walls. Get a roll or large sheets of brown wrapping paper, and cover the floor completely. Tape it to the floor only around the edges - you can tape the overlaps between sheets/runs of paper, but don't tape to the floor except at the edges.

Then paint the walls.

After it dries, remove the paper from the floor, then finish the floor.

BTW, you WILL get dust everywhere - even in places you didn't know dust can get. Make sure wife is prepared, or she'll howl about the dust. Consider positive airflow - as in, open window using a window fan to exhaust the air, pulling fresh air from other rooms.

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Chuck,
Dont wast your time trying to remove the Rosin Paper before Sanding.It is Not necessary.
Go to the Rental place and rent a industrial sander designed specifically for hard wood floors, buy a couple of extra sanding belts and have at it. finish off with a buffer with a fine disk or even "scotch brite'"like material or fine steel wool.in lieu of the sand paper. Keep WATER off of the oak! to seal it after sanding, if you are going with a darker colored stain, use a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and paint thinner. (If you have proper ventilation!) If not, I recommend TrueTone Interior Water-Based Sanding Sealer.(the least fumes of any product I have used including Minwax.) Followed by 2 coats (fine steel wool buff between coats) of Minwax stain. Followed by Minwax Water Based Polyurethane for Floors. (after about 2-3 hours, or dry to the touch, second coat) buff, and enjoy your new floor!

I do this type of stuff for a living.

 

[rmciottijr]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Yes, I would paint first and if you are really worried about the floors looking good after you sand them be very careful the sanding equipment is very unforgiving. I would recommend having a professional do it. We did to our 85 year old floors and they came out great (5 rooms, landing and stairs $1,900.00). You could do it by hand with a small belt sander and have a little more control.


Bob

 

[Greebo]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

The wife did about a 3x4 patch yesterday with just a little water and the scraper and we're definitely down to the wood. It's still stained with adhesive from the tile, but thats set in the wood and will need to be sanded out, so we're gonna stick with the plain water method.

I know you're supposed to keep water off the oak, but we're not putting a lot down, just enough to soak the stuck rosin paper, a light misting, if you will, and not leaving it down for more than necessary.

So based on the very helpful advice here, the plan is to scrape, then sand, then paint, then stain and finish.

The wife was funny - 'Is it worth the trouble to rent a power sander? Can't we just do it by hand?' I had to reminder how much time and effort was saved when we rented the small roto tiller for our small garden. She took 2 days tilling that garden the previous year, this year it was tilled in 20 minutes.

I figure we can get by with a half day rental - the room is only about 9 by 15.

 

[Pjsmith]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

My wife and I are becoming avid DIYers, and right now we're in the middle of a remodel of a small room upstairs which during its lifespan has been a bedroom and a kitchen.

We are nearly done with mudding and taping and are about ready to paint, and then we'll be turning our attention to the floor.

We first considered putting in a swiftlock laminate floor, but we've been looking at the original, 66 year old hardwood, and think it may be salvagable if we can clean it and sand it and then treat it properly.

Stuck to the floor, however, is old rosin paper that was put down under the vinyl floor that was installed when the room became a kitchen. The paper is very old and was glued down, not tacked. Removing it is a pain, but we can scrape it up, however its a very slow and tedious process.

I think we can speed the process by soaking the paper with a mild soap solution, and then scrape it up after a couple of minutes.

Any experience or thoughts on the subject?

Also I'm thinking if we're going to sand and stain and seal the floor, we should do that before painting, and then protect the floor while we paint.

Thanks for the input in advance!

Before you go to all the effort, check the nominal thickness of the hardwood...if it's been refinished twice already, might not be enough meat left for you to refinish again (or so I'm told, anyway), since you loose a 16th or more sanding.

FWIW, I did this for 330+ square feet. Tedious....definitely. A heat gun and plastic scrapers helped far more than the water, which raised the grain on the oak pretty badly (not so bad on the rock maple).

If you are going to do the sanding yourself, you'll rent two sanders, the drum sander and the floor orbital disk sander with multiple grade screens. The trick with the drum sander is to never stop moving while the drum is in contact with the floor (you, i.e. I, only make that mistake once!)

Can we see some before/after photos when you're done?

 

[mikea]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Remodleing is always full of suprises, some good, some bad, and some really ULGY. I'm in the camp of save as much of the good stuff as possible. In my house someone painted over a very nice mahogny stained window moulding with harvest gold paint matched with strawberry wall paper and blue curtians. And as far as the house is concerned that the bad part... the ulgy part was the wire splices without junction boxes in at least 3 rooms so far and the 1/2" notches taken out of a few studs so they could make an alcove for the refrigrator under the stairs.

I'm really sick of doing dishes in the bathtub....

Missa

My house was foreclosure. It looks like previous owners made an attempt to spruce the place up for quick sale: 1) They put in a Pergo floor, but the edges are untrimmed. Trim strips and many thresholds are missing, 2) They painted the walls but many heat registers and the Pella windows' hardware are missing, 3) Worse of all, for whatever reason they splashed flat white paint randomly on the natural wood trim. I have a window 20% painted, and several doors where they painted the trim and let paint fall on the door wherever. The back of the front door like the rest has about 40% thin brush coat.

I'd rather have the original natural varnished finish but I'm faced with pulling trim and doors and having the splashed white paint stripped. I had the painter out yesterday and we pretty much decided to surrender and paint the rest white. Damn.

The dishwasher is also not connected. I don't even know if it works. I have to decide to try to hook it up enough to test it or have an appliance guy come out and do the hookup. Nothing like paying for an installation of a non-functioning appliance. The dryer needs an igniter so I had a fantasy I could have both looked at in one trip. I haven't called yet. I am possibly capable of doing both repairs.

Did I mention that the house is full of 3-way lighting circuits and 4 out 7 of them work halfway or not at all? I think there are a bunch of bad old switches. I do know to wire a 3-way.

 

[SteveR]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

For more tips:
http://forum.doityourself.com/

 

[Missa]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

I'd rather have the original natural varnished finish but I'm faced with pulling trim and doors and having the splashed white paint stripped. I had the painter out yesterday and we pretty much decided to surrender and paint the rest white. Damn.
[\quote]

AHHH!!! Don't do it man! Stripping it is really very easy especially if the wood was previously finished. Take a heat gun and a scraper to it, it should all come up and then you can refinish it! That's what I'm doing to the fulgy yellow!

Missa

 

[gprellwitz]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Stripping it is really very easy

Okay, you have really got to watch what you say in the forums!

Personally, I've never found it to be so, but the results can be well worth it! Maybe it comes more naturally to you!

 

[Greebo]

Re: Remodeling: Removing old rosin paper from hardwood floor

Now with pictures!

 

[Greebo]

The first four pics show the wet wall from when the room served as a kitchen. The drain pipe was discovered in this condition. Unfortunately our ultimate solution was not ideal - I purchased a 1 1/2" plug but the T was so corrded it could not be installed, so in the end I cut it down substantially, inverted it, and pluged the drain with it and a lot of duct tape. Not perfect, I grant you, but I wasn't calling in a plubmer to pull out the pipe and put a new fitting on it.

Because of the fitting, we had to furr out the wall 2", which I have some pics of but not on this pc yet.

You can see (out of order) the floor with 2 layers of linoleum, with the linoleum removed, before we stripped it by hand, after by hand, and finally the sanding process.

Also you can see that our house has no exterior insulation. That's on the list, after we build the attic up to R-38 or better...

We sanded the floor in under four hours, getting the tools back on a half day rental. I just walked the floor barefoot and it feels great! There's still some staining - to be expected in a 65 year old floor, but we're very glad we were able to save it.

 

[Greebo]

Oh yeah - and the "nude pics" are of the floor - but the thumbnails don't show the name of the pic unless you hover the mouse over it... ruins the joke, I'm afraid...

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I sanded an old oak floor down & then applied a "Swedish finish" with no stain, which was great looking and durable.

 

[Skip Miller]

The first four pics show the wet wall from when the room served as a kitchen. The drain pipe was discovered in this condition. Unfortunately our ultimate solution was not ideal - I purchased a 1 1/2" plug but the T was so corrded it could not be installed, so in the end I cut it down substantially, inverted it, and pluged the drain with it and a lot of duct tape. Not perfect, I grant you, but I wasn't calling in a plubmer to pull out the pipe and put a new fitting on it.

Next time you are at the store ask for a Fernco (brand name, almost generic like kleenex) Cap. A rubber cap with a large hose clamp around it to make the fit watertight.

I know this is heresy, but it will last longer than duct tape.

-Skip

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

Well done, Chuck!!!

 

[Joe B]

Excellent job, congratulations! I sanded a wood floor once - it ended up with more waves than a beach. Have left it to professionals ever since. I'm delighted yours turned out well.

Regards,
Joe

 

[tonycondon]

hmmm i read the modified subject and though "those spam bots are getting smart..."

 

[michael Killacky]

I've done quickie jobs at my apartment house with a heavy (100#+) vibrator sander. Sand 'em smooth, coupla' coats of finish, and they rent within the first few applicants. Those drum sanders can cost you a floor if you're not careful. I also had a guy do one once with a buffer loaded with sandpaper. Made a huge mess but good results.

 

[Missa]

Looks great Chuck!

Really, want to come over to my house??? I could use the help!

 

[Greebo]

Looks great Chuck!

Really, want to come over to my house??? I could use the help!

I'll give you the same answer we give when people ask if we'll do their hardwood floor install.

$150/sq ft.

 

[JRitt]

Chuck. When I was adding insulation to the attic of my house I also decided to blow insulation into the walls of my garage because I work out there a lot and wanted to be able to heat it. Its messy because you get insulation everywhere but its not hard to do. It 4"diam holes I bored through the walls were done with a hole borer so I saved the intact piece of drywall to put it back. I cut a bunch of 1/2"x1"x8" srtips of wood to back the holes with to make the repairs easy.

 

[Missa]

I'll give you the same answer we give when people ask if we'll do their hardwood floor install.

$150/sq ft.

Not hard wood floor... right now I'm mudding drywall and sanding blue stain off kitchen cabinets.

 

[Greebo]

No garage here. However, our exterior walls are uninsulated, which I suspect prompted this reply.

My current plan is to invest in slow rising, closed cavity foam. (http://www.fomofoam.com/existing_homes.htm) At $700 for 600 sq ft, its not cheap, but at R-7 per inch that's an R-28 in the exterior walls - twice that of fiberglass and a lot easier to install in existing, closed walls.

 

[Greebo]

Not hard wood floor... right now I'm mudding drywall and sanding blue stain off kitchen cabinets.

Oh, then $250/sq foot.

 

[Missa]

No garage here. However, our exterior walls are uninsulated, which I suspect prompted this reply.

My current plan is to invest in slow rising, closed cavity foam. (http://www.fomofoam.com/existing_homes.htm) At $700 for 600 sq ft, its not cheap, but at R-7 per inch that's an R-28 in the exterior walls - twice that of fiberglass and a lot easier to install in existing, closed walls.

Let us know how that works out.

 

[JRitt]

Chuck, Foam injection is a good choice. You get a solid vapor barrior, Elimanate any drafts, and get a high R value in the cavity (R-23 for a 3 1/2 cavity) Assuming studs on 16" centers you will have 82% of your wall at R-23 and 18% of your wall at R-4 (where the studs are). This work out to be a whole wall insulation value of R-12.4. This sounds low but it is equal to a well built (insulation and sealing) 2x6 wall with R-19 insulation and your house will be MUCH quieter from it. Are you planning on updating windows? I just replaced mine from single pane wood (U-1.04) to double pane Low-E vinyl (U-.35) and it is very easy. Removal of the old window took 15min each and installing the new one took approx 1hr eash including sealing and painting the trim.I was able to reuse all of my old trim.

 

[Greebo]

All of the window sashes have been upgraded to double pane by the previous owner. They're cheap windows and I'd love to replace them for something nicer in the long run (like some garden windows) but that's not a high priority at the moment.

 

[Greebo]

We're in the home stretch now. The walls are painted, and sealing and finishing is this weekend.

Question - this is an inside floor - isn't the poly finish also a sealer? WHy sealer and THEN poly?

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

We're in the home stretch now. The walls are painted, and sealing and finishing is this weekend.

Question - this is an inside floor - isn't the poly finish also a sealer? WHy sealer and THEN poly?

To protect the finish and the wood its self

 

[mikea]

Can I horn in?

I got a round tuit and repaired the two upstairs toilets yesterday. I used to hear water running in my dreams.

I found an off-brand replacement flush valve for my American Standard toilet. The second one got a new seal.

I also added the Fluidmaster bleach cleaning deal which seem to be pretty good.
http://www.fluidmaster.com/care_products_main.html

Can anybody understand that it's so thrilling they don't run endlessly and randomly anymore that I keep looking for a reason to flush?

 

[Greebo]

To protect the finish and the wood its self

We're starting the seal & stain today. We have 1 qt of minwax interior penetrate, stain, finish in natural, and a gallon of minwax finish coat poly.

Will be taking pics to show the painted room and the progress of the floor.