Red Tails

I can't believe there was only about 15 people in the seats. Sad . The movie was good , some of the acting was ehhhhh.
 
cavmedic said:
I can't believe there was only about 15 people in the seats. Sad . The movie was good , some of the acting was ehhhhh.
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Or, were the computer graphics brilliant, and the story & acting ehhhh?
 
Saw it this evening. I agree with Dan that it was somewhat formulaic and some of the dialog was simplistic. Nevertheless I enjoyed the movie.
 
DavidWhite said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Dan your dry wit never fails to make me burst out laughing while everyone else is asleep.

That may be one of the best reviews I have read about it.
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Agreed. The CGI was pretty sorry. I really hope the scene of the C-47 bounced landing was computer generated.

Got to say the movie was a disappointment. I thought the 1995 Tuskegee Airmen movie was much better.
 
I think I'll pass. I just can't stand when they eff up CG airplanes. Same old tired characters, no character development. Sounds like a bunch of cliches wrapped in a message that's been beaten to death. It does not do the real Tuskegee Airmen justice. They deserve a better memory than what Dan describes.

The film industry is really in sad, sad shape. At least the stuff that gets released for popular consumption.
 
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I need to go see this. One of the teachers back when I was in high school was a TA.

RT
 
Anthony said:
The film industry is really in sad, sad shape. At least the stuff that gets released for popular consumption.
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There is no group more conservative than big movie producers. "Did it work before?" If the answer is yes, they'll do it.

Otherwise, let someone else take the risk...
 
Anthony said:
I think I'll pass. I just can't stand when they eff up CG airplanes. Same old tired characters, no character development. Sounds like a bunch of cliches wrapped in a message that's been beaten to death. It does not do the real Tuskegee Airmen justice. They deserve a better memory than what Dan describes.

The film industry is really in sad, sad shape. At least the stuff that gets released for popular consumption.
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The movie was not great
 
We saw it lastnight. 7:10 show was sold out by 4p at our little town theather so we saw MI4 instead.

Had enough steam leftover, and were already inside so we got tix to the 10:20 show. Again full house.

Bottom Line: It was worth it. In addition to being a decent Saturday evening date for the wife and I, this movie is a reminder that we yet have a long way to go, and I think young people should see it.
 
My son and I watched this yesterday, I guess I should have known what to expect but even with lowered expectations was sorely disappointed. The CGI effects were actually worth watching--sure there are cartoonish aspects with planes performing tricks that aren't really possible, but on the plus side the filmaker was able to give the sense of hundreds of bombers in the air that you can't do today.

My real gripe is that is severely dishonored the memory of both the TA and other fighter pilots. The "white" pilots are depicted as abandoning the bombers and chasing German fighters for the glory of it. The TA are depicted as renegades who routinely disobey orders. The whole movie comes across as one made by someone whose idea of the military has been formed by video games and old war movies. The junior officers are insubordinate, the enlisted personnel seem to be the pilots' pals; they don't salute and they address the officers by their first names. The pilot cadre seems less a squadron of disciplined professionals than a gang from the 'hood that happened to luck upon a set of P-51s. In fact the TA were better educated and subject to a tighter screening process (due to institutional racism) than the average pilot of that era. None of that comes out in the movie.

There are unintentional bits of humor in dialogue, where one officer tells a renegade pilot "You are acting like a punk" (applies the whole group) and "You think this is a game" (the whole movie comes across as a video game). I suppose it wasn't any worse than Top Gun or Pearl Harbor, which isn't saying much.

The whole movie would be improved by dubbing it into a foreign language without subtitles, or just scrapping the dialogue altogether and substituting rock music.
 
Same old tired characters, no character development. Sounds like a bunch of cliches wrapped in a message that's been beaten to death.
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Is Cruddyplywood still doing that nonsense? After a 21 year moratorium I was almost tempted to give them another chance just for this show and that's only because I'm interested in history however I think I'll pass and consider giving them a chance in another 21 years.

Jim Logajan said:
Anyone who goes looking for deep character or cultural study in an action flick deserves the misery they inflict on themselves.
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It's not our fault that the highly respected well paid professional big name hoorah super expert script writers have less plot and character development skills than the most mediocre first year junior college student taking their very first playwriting class without knowing what they're getting into.
 
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dmccormack said:
Glory, anyone?
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That was one of the first movies that came to mind as well.

Red Tails had none of the power or substance behind any of the other movies about blacks overcoming racial barriers (Glory, Men of Honor, Tuskegee Airmen...). It was just a basic bare bones action movie without much thought put into it.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Anyone who goes looking for deep character or cultural study in an action flick deserves the misery they inflict on themselves.
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Got to agree with Dan on this one. We aren't talking about Rambo here..there have been plenty of deep character action movies.
 
Re: Red Tails WARNING - NOT FAVORABLE COMMENTS

dmccormack said:
I just saw it. Wrote a longer review here.
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Great review. I'm sure everyone else will slam you for heresy.

1. Thank you for remembering Natalie Hershlag. I'm sure she had no qualms cashing the checks. Personally, I thought she was so much better in "Mars Attacks" than SW.
2. Thank you for recognizing the contributions SUN/Oracle made to the film.
3. House Composer John Williams was not involved. That's probably why the music was so unmemorable.
4. I saw most of the CGI last summer at SIGGRAPH where ILM & Pixomodo were showing off. I figure that there's not that much more to the movie.
5. Lucas just keeps making Star Wars over and over, doesn't he?
6. For you software people, Lucasfilm Ltd. is hiring. Some very interesting positions, too.
 
Weds night we went to hear the US Air Force Band play a concert. About 2/3 through the narrator introduced a member of the Red Tails and he gave a short speech.
The hall was pretty full and everyone (including those who served during WWII and had to struggle to stand) gave him a standing "O." He was very dignified and highly educated. His use of the English language puts me to shame and I wish more young people could have heard him speak, if for nothing else, to hear someone using proper English.
His speech was not incendiary. It was informative but light.
 
Re: Red Tails WARNING - NOT FAVORABLE COMMENTS

murphey said:
Great review. I'm sure everyone else will slam you for heresy.

1. Thank you for remembering Natalie Hershlag. I'm sure she had no qualms cashing the checks. Personally, I thought she was so much better in "Mars Attacks" than SW.
2. Thank you for recognizing the contributions SUN/Oracle made to the film.
3. House Composer John Williams was not involved. That's probably why the music was so unmemorable.
4. I saw most of the CGI last summer at SIGGRAPH where ILM & Pixomodo were showing off. I figure that there's not that much more to the movie.
5. Lucas just keeps making Star Wars over and over, doesn't he?
6. For you software people, Lucasfilm Ltd. is hiring. Some very interesting positions, too.
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Actually, most responses have been complimentary, for which I am grateful.

I didn't know Sun/ Oracle was involved (I guessed). :D
 
Re: Red Tails WARNING - NOT FAVORABLE COMMENTS

murphey said:
Great review. I'm sure everyone else will slam you for heresy.
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After seeing the movie, and the fact that I've flown in a real P-51, done the simulated dog fights in the Marchetti SF260................I can say that I enjoyed the movie, rather than tossing it in the dead film pile. Sure, the CGI is a bit tacky in some areas, and at least two aircraft would have suffered accelerated stalls, if not a loss of a wing. However, the CGI is much improved from the days of Independence Day, and looks quite convincing on the flight line. I'll just say, that I don't much agree with Dan's review, after seeing the film. I'm glad that George Lucas put forth the effort, and his own money to get this story to audiences. Not perfection by any means, but my cup is certainly more than half full.........regarding this subject.
 
Re: Red Tails WARNING - NOT FAVORABLE COMMENTS

L.Adamson said:
I'll just say, that I don't much agree with Dan's review, after seeing the film. I'm glad that George Lucas put forth the effort, and his own money to get this story to audiences. Not perfection by any means, but my cup is certainly more than half full.........regarding this subject.
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My disappointment is based on Mr Lucas' past successes, deep pockets, and extensive network. Surely could have done far, far better.
 
OK now that most ppl have seen it.....

Did I miss something? Where the heck was Col. Benjamin O' Davis Jr. ?
He was the driving force behind their success!

Overall, I enjoyed the movie but think it could have been much better. Also should have shown their early flight training.
 
Movie was cliche' but good.

Here in Denver, the group "On Laughter Silvered Wings" sponsored a special showing.

www.olsw.org

The founder, dressed in brig red tie and bright red jacket, spoke prior to the movie. He started with the question, loud and strong... "What do you think of when you hear the word ghetto?"

He shared that he was born after WWII and grew up in a ghetto. He was happy. He said many of the things people think of with the word are stereotypes.

What he didn't know, was that the Tuskegee Airmen had fought or even existed. He said if you asked in his neighborhood if a black man could fly airplanes, people would laugh at you.

He's now a pilot, of course.

He next asked the kids in the crowd to stand up. Then he pointed at them and said, "What is your worst subject in school?" They answered.

He then asked... "If I promised you that any child here who would set a goal to raise their worst subject's letter grade one grade, would get a ride in an airplane, would you do it?" The kids said yes. The crowd broke into applause.

He continued, "Parents! Your kids say they'd raise their worst grade a letter grade for a chance to do something they never thought they could do. How hard have you tried to get that to happen? I will personally make sure any kid who sets a goal and achieves it, will get an airplane ride."

He gave olsw.org's website and the theater broke into applause again.

Next up, a short film with interviews of still living Tuskegee Airmen created by OLSW that was riveting. Same message. Set a goal, never let anyone tell you that you can't do something. Respect is earned but people forget. Etc.

With that to set the stage, the movie began.

Yeah, I'd already read the negative reviews here on PoA. You know what? It didn't matter. The real message was there, even in the goofy CGI and hokey lines.

5 theaters full of people. Place was disorganized and overflowing. Just like it should have been.

My favorite memory... Before we found Mari, an obviously frail but proud elderly black woman was dropped off at the front of the theater in a late model Cadillac. She had a fur coat on and you could tell she was dressed up for this proud event. She walked up to the VIP entrance while everyone got out of her way and helped her inside.

I don't know if she was related to any of our local Tuskegee Airmen or just proud to be there. But it was very cool. She was certainly old enough to remember the bigotry and hate of the 1950s.

So complain about the movie or not. It's worth telling the story again.
 
denverpilot said:
Movie was cliche' but good.

Here in Denver, the group "On Laughter Silvered Wings" sponsored a special showing.

www.olsw.org

The founder, dressed in brig red tie and bright red jacket, spoke prior to the movie. He started with the question, loud and strong... "What do you think of when you hear the word ghetto?"
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that's Gilbert.

He next asked the kids in the crowd to stand up. Then he pointed at them and said, "What is your worst subject in school?" They answered.

He then asked... "If I promised you that any child here who would set a goal to raise their worst subject's letter grade one grade, would get a ride in an airplane, would you do it?" The kids said yes. The crowd broke into applause.

He continued, "Parents! Your kids say they'd raise their worst grade a letter grade for a chance to do something they never thought they could do. How hard have you tried to get that to happen? I will personally make sure any kid who sets a goal and achieves it, will get an airplane ride."
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EAA Chapter 301 (me, Doug, 30 others) are the ones that fly the kids twice a year. It's thru Gilbert's program BUG - Bring Up Grades.
 
denverpilot said:
Movie was cliche' but good.

Here in Denver, the group "On Laughter Silvered Wings" sponsored a special showing.

www.olsw.org

The founder, dressed in brig red tie and bright red jacket, spoke prior to the movie. He started with the question, loud and strong... "What do you think of when you hear the word ghetto?"

He shared that he was born after WWII and grew up in a ghetto. He was happy. He said many of the things people think of with the word are stereotypes.

What he didn't know, was that the Tuskegee Airmen had fought or even existed. He said if you asked in his neighborhood if a black man could fly airplanes, people would laugh at you.

He's now a pilot, of course.

He next asked the kids in the crowd to stand up. Then he pointed at them and said, "What is your worst subject in school?" They answered.

He then asked... "If I promised you that any child here who would set a goal to raise their worst subject's letter grade one grade, would get a ride in an airplane, would you do it?" The kids said yes. The crowd broke into applause.

He continued, "Parents! Your kids say they'd raise their worst grade a letter grade for a chance to do something they never thought they could do. How hard have you tried to get that to happen? I will personally make sure any kid who sets a goal and achieves it, will get an airplane ride."

He gave olsw.org's website and the theater broke into applause again.

Next up, a short film with interviews of still living Tuskegee Airmen created by OLSW that was riveting. Same message. Set a goal, never let anyone tell you that you can't do something. Respect is earned but people forget. Etc.

With that to set the stage, the movie began.

Yeah, I'd already read the negative reviews here on PoA. You know what? It didn't matter. The real message was there, even in the goofy CGI and hokey lines.

5 theaters full of people. Place was disorganized and overflowing. Just like it should have been.

My favorite memory... Before we found Mari, an obviously frail but proud elderly black woman was dropped off at the front of the theater in a late model Cadillac. She had a fur coat on and you could tell she was dressed up for this proud event. She walked up to the VIP entrance while everyone got out of her way and helped her inside.

I don't know if she was related to any of our local Tuskegee Airmen or just proud to be there. But it was very cool. She was certainly old enough to remember the bigotry and hate of the 1950s.

So complain about the movie or not. It's worth telling the story again.
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WOW! That was great, thanks for sharing.
 
murphey said:
that's Gilbert.
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I had a nice conversation with Gilbert the day I went flying in the RV-6A then stayed for the BBQ.

I agree with Nate. Sure some of the special effects were a bit over the top and the lines were sometimes hokey but hey, this was supposed to be an action movie. I was also very impressed with the turnout. I wouldn't have thought they could fill 5 theaters. It wasn't just the typical Denver aviation crowd either. In fact the only other people I saw that I knew besides Nate and his wife were Joel and his wife.
 
I enjoyed the movie for what it was; entertainment. The CGI effects didn't bother me (heck, I never questioned Indy pulling himself under a moving truck with his whip). I will say that it was poor form to make out that all the other pilots were only out for personal glory. I have nothing but respect for all those that served their country.
 
John221us said:
I enjoyed the movie for what it was; entertainment. The CGI effects didn't bother me (heck, I never questioned Indy pulling himself under a moving truck with his whip).
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You ever see how they made that scene? Big trench under the truck. Was one of the first "behind the scenes" videos I ever saw and I was mesmerized with the level of safety and shot planning. Making movies is a lot of work.

John221us said:
I will say that it was poor form to make out that all the other pilots were only out for personal glory. I have nothing but respect for all those that served their country.
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Same here. Although they did give a nod to "it's what they were trained to do".

Other amazing stuff tonight...

One of my co-owners and his wife were there and they had the foresight to bring a bottle of the wine we buy for 79M first timers with a sticker on it that says "From the pilots of 79M" from the Chandelle winery in California owned by Hap Arnold's grandkids. They got it signed by all the Airmen in attendance. As she said, never going to drink that bottle!

The other note I got via social media when I said I'd attended the movie was a note to say hi to the Colonel from my primary instructor's wife. My first primary instructor is a co-worker of one of his kids (in the airlines) and is teaching primary lessons to one of his grandkids right now. Three generations of pilots. In addition, his own son just passed his Instrument ride a couple of weeks ago. Two of his boys fly and I bet the youngest (the girl) will too, if she wants to. I got the great honor of giving her her first small airplane ride a couple of years ago in Arizona while her dad rode shotgun in my 182. I remember flying lessons in a 172 with the son who just passed his Instrument, in a car seat in the back.

It's incredibly humbling and an honor to be part of the whole aviation community/family. I hope I get a chance to meet Gilbert sometime. (Now the ribbing to come fly Young Eagles will start. That whole 6AM thing just kills me on Saturday mornings. I'm such a night owl!)

One of my wife's Doctor employers years ago was in the insanity over Ploesti as a Flight Engineer. We should give him a call and see if he saw the movie and what he thought of his fighter escorts during the war, before he's gone and can't be asked.

Nicest person in medicine I've ever met. Had his own family practice and was struggling under the weight of insurance rules and paperwork built for a Doc with ten partners and a staff. Never turned anyone sick down, even if they couldn't pay. We need more people like him who've seen the worst the world can dish out and never took the education from the GI Bill that made him a Doctor, for granted.
 
USAFA student's response to their screening of the movie:


(For those who haven't seen the movie, it's a scene re-enactment.)
 
denverpilot said:
It's incredibly humbling and an honor to be part of the whole aviation community/family. I hope I get a chance to meet Gilbert sometime. (Now the ribbing to come fly Young Eagles will start. That whole 6AM thing just kills me on Saturday mornings. I'm such a night owl!)
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Yeah. Ya gotta. Come out this weekend and see the fun and help us with ground ops. Doesn't matter what time you need to get up. The grins on the kids faces more than makes up for the lack of sleep!

For me? 5:30 am. And I'm as much if not more of a night owl....And while the engine was in for overhaul, I was doing all the catering (coffee & donuts & fruit) and had to be there BEFORE the rest of the pilots!
 
John221us said:
The CGI effects didn't bother me (heck, I never questioned Indy pulling himself under a moving truck with his whip).
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That was NOT CGI.....real stunt man and real moving truck as Nate described.

CGI showed up in the second movie - where the Ford TriMotor crashes into the mountain.
 
I was really looking forward to seeing the movie. Until I saw the trailer. Now, after reading the reviews I'm saving my $. May pay a buck to watch it when it hits Redbox next month.
 
redtail said:
OK now that most ppl have seen it.....

Did I miss something? Where the heck was Col. Benjamin O' Davis Jr. ?
He was the driving force behind their success!
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Thing to keep in mind about Red Tails....is that it is not billed as a documentary. It is one of those Hollywood 'Inspired by true events' movies. Think of it like the WWI movie Flyboys, or the 1990 Memphis Belle, or....Titanic. Lots of fictional characters made from a 'collage' of real people intertwined with a historical plot line.
 
Re: Red Tails movie 01/12

Loved the stories and planes but the acting was horrible
 
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