Red Bull Pilots to Swap Planes in Midair

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Piperonca, Mar 16, 2022.

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How does Red Bull stunt end?

  1. Both planes and pilots survive unscathed

    36 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. One plane or pilot impacts obstacle at speed

    22 vote(s)
    24.4%
  3. Multiple casualties and/or damage to both planes

    6 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. Nothing happens after this

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Temporary suspension by FAA of two pilots

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  6. Revocation by FAA of two pilots

    19 vote(s)
    21.1%
  7. All Red Bull personnel with certificates have them revoked

    5 vote(s)
    5.6%
  8. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    Yes, cowl flaps use in a 182 does noticeably change the pitch tendencies of the plane. This is a significant configuration change that they should not have ignored, if they did.
     
  2. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    The kind that buy Icon A5s?
     
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  3. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They don’t prohibit inflight transfers today (although the most recent I know of is probably 10 years ago, but it was pretty regular before that.)
     
  4. texasclouds

    texasclouds Pattern Altitude

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    that one dude was hefty, and if I remember correctly his plane is the one that spun.

    i probably would have suggested using seat ballast to replicate the missing safety pilots.

    standing by for memes…
     
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  5. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    He just got sucked out before he could get it trimmed properly.

    (in case anyone missed the reference…)
     
  6. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Martha Lunken and Trevor Jacob - both had all their certificates revoked and put on a 1 year suspension before they could start training to regain them.
     
  7. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, they were only revoked. The reg says you can reapply one year after revocation.
     
  8. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Ok - so after revocation, the 1 year wait is automatic. Ok, got it.
     
  9. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    61.13(d)(2) if you want the reference…
     
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  10. Piperonca

    Piperonca Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    In special cases such as this, isn’t there a double secret probation?
     
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  11. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I wouldn’t know. ;)
     
  12. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    I wonder want the point is of revocation if all you have to do is reapply after a year. These incidents are ADM and "dangerous attitude" related. It is easy enough to fake/talk your way through that part of a written/practical exam, with your true colors never really changing.

    Does the FAA have a stronger, more durable certificate ban available to them (other than medical revocation)?
     
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  13. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack En-Route

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    I wish you guys would quit guessing what happened. Dan Gryder will tell us soon.
     
  14. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    You asked my question more concisely. :D
     
  15. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Did the FAA deny the waiver? Or did they just not issue it?
     
  16. snglecoil

    snglecoil Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Already popped up in my YouTube feed…I may even click on this one for giggles.
     
  17. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    "Denial of Exemption"
     
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  18. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    Not that I'm aware of. The certificate revoke falls under a USC law. There have been a few people who have had their certificates revoked more than once and regained them a 3rd time. However in some blatant offences there can be an unofficial "double secret probation" fall into place in that the offending petson may not find a willing CFI to sign off their next solo endorsement. ;)
     
  19. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Cleared for Takeoff

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    I dunno, I do it several times a week. Aerodynamically it is no different than holding any other attitude. The trick, of course, is the speed buildup.

    If they tested the dive with the pilot in the left seat, and then ballasted it on centerline (eg extra fuel), the resulting weight shift to the right might have been enough to result in dynamic instability in yaw.
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How often do you do it when you're not in the airplane? lol
     
  21. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Cleared for Takeoff

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    Red Bull stock will go up. Right now their brand logo is on every TV and website in the world. A marketers wet dream.

    The biggest damage will be to their relationship with the FAA and other national regulatory bodies. Their air show at Oshkosh last summer was fantastic. Hate to see that suffer.
     
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  22. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    You are correct technically but these airplanes are designed to want to fly straight and level. Obviously several modifications were made as I bet the factory trim settings wouldn't even hold it vertical at terminal velocity. Then you have the incidence in the wing and tail that want to naturally return to straight and level. Of course I am no aerodynamicist nor aircraft designer so I could be wrong. I would imagine their "speed brake" could keep the plane under Vne but if not you can introduce flutter which will upset the trajectory.
     
  23. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    Why would they ballast with fuel?

    The fuel tank isn’t where the safety pilot sat. If it’s almost the same arm in level flight, it won’t be when it sloshes forward in a dive. And it’s got a lateral offset.

    And it can burn.
     
  24. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The fuel would be in a very different ARM than the copilot when the plane is pointed straight down. Sloshing forward would be irrelevant in that position, it’s a totally different axis. Probably 30-40 inches different, and the “cg” would be much less stable around that axis.
     
  25. texasclouds

    texasclouds Pattern Altitude

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    Yea, but y’all fail to remember Red Bull gives you wings
     
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  26. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

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    Here is Paul B's take on it:

     
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  27. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    I have to assume this was a bladder tank 182, in which case this is a pretty impressive display of the fire resistance of that design after that crash.
     
  28. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Line Up and Wait

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  29. kaiser

    kaiser Line Up and Wait

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    Look what popped up on TAP…

    5A00C6BD-38C3-4FD3-BBF6-E787491E3A2F.jpeg
     
  30. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    N120Z is pretty clever.

    But Red Bull cans are actually smaller than 12 oz, aren’t they?
     
  31. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Eight point four.
     
  32. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack En-Route

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    Yeah, that's the smallest one! They make 8.4, 12, 16, & 20 in case you want to speed up the heart attack!
     
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  33. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The definitive answer…
     
  34. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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  35. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Falling on his sword to protect others?
     
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  36. IK04

    IK04 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    ...And somehow I am still not moved to drink their sewer water.

    I have never gotten past the smell of Red bull.
     
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  37. Hector Parra

    Hector Parra Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Can you believe some folks add it to their scotch? Eeew
     
  38. MacFlier

    MacFlier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It actually tastes good...
     
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  39. GaryM

    GaryM Pattern Altitude

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    That has to be due to whatever wonderful scotch flavor notes manage to claw their way through the matrix of gawd-awful Red Bull taste.

    Mind you, I'm glad enough people drink the stuff to enable Red Bull to fund many cool aviation-related things they do (the plane-swap stunt notwithstanding).
     
  40. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    If you want to see real Red Bull teamwork, watch the Miami Formula One Race Sunday. The Drivers, Pit Crews, Team Engineers et al are the pinnacle of sport. (Except for the first two races this year).

    Cheers