Recommendations for a fast taildragger

Scud_072

Scud_072

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Scud
I am a 55 year old student pilot who is post solo and starting on XC. I own a business and plan on buying a plane. I don't want to just get my license and fly.. I want to become a great pilot. I plan to go on and get my instrument rating very soon after my PP. I have been reading that to become a great pilot, you must fly a taildragger, or if you did fly one, you become better. So lets say I go for that. And lets say I have $30K - $40K to spend cash for a plane. What is an older 4 passenger taildragger that has decent speed to fit my mission below?

As for my mission... I live in So Cal and will fly to the SF Bay Area quite often. That is about 235NM from my home airport. I have other business that will take me to North Las Vegas Nevada (KVGT) @ 250NM and Las Vegas New Mexico @ 725NM. Then I have a client I go see once or twice a month in Iowa on the Mississippi River @1400NM. I have done the calculations for flying there in one day (8 hours flight time @ 175NMPH plus one stop for lunch, fuel and leg stretch. I am thinking this is a bit much for a new pilot but I am dreaming. The fuel cost $1200 round trip but a commercial ticket is only $500 so I am not sure if my client will pay more than $500 for the ride and if it is really worth it to fly myself that far. I can get there commercially in about the same amount of time figuring all the time required door to door with both modes of transportation. We can leave this flight out of the mission profile for now, but it might be a great way to build up some miles?
 
Taildraggers are overrated as skill builders. You want to be a good pilot get competent in a sailplane.
 
I agree with Greg on this one. Plus you would be hard pressed to find what you are looking for in that price range. Realistically I see you building more experience and ending up with something like a Bo or Comanche to handle that mission but then again you will most likely push your budget a bit higher. My Comanche 250 cost me $45k and most Bo's are up there and more.

Not sure you realize that you are asking for 175kts ("175NMPH")You are going to pay for that speed...
 
Glassair TD, RV-4, Thorp T-18 if you want a 2 sweater, Midget Mustang or Cassuet if one seat works.
 
With that mission you need FIKI and pressurization, unless you like tubes stuck up your nose blowing cold dry air that makes you snot all over your face and wish you were dead (or at a lower altitude).
 
BobThePilot said:
With that mission you need FIKI and pressurization, unless you like tubes stuck up your nose blowing cold dry air that makes you snot all over your face and wish you were dead (or at a lower altitude).
Click to expand...

:confused: I've flown all the above for over 20 years without FIKI or pressurization.
 
Henning said:
:confused: I've flown all the above for over 20 years without FIKI or pressurization.
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Well you're not normal then. Most sane people quickly come to the realization that repeatedly flying 1200 nm in a taildragger for business purpose is not a great idea. Crossing the Rockies no less.
 
I agree, tail drager would be a good addition to your accomplishments, but if you really want to become more than a good pilot, take a course in aerobatics.

For traveling, as mentioned above, get a Cherokee.

-John
 
I love tail draggers... I love them to no end. That said, most aren't good traveling airplanes. In your profiles, taxi, take-off, & landing (i.e.. the portion of the flight where the tailwheel skills are needed) represent no more than 5% of your operation. I recommend a tricycle gear airplane designed as a trip airplane and just renting a taildragger when the stick and rudder urge hits.

I give this advice to all new buyers: Buy an airplane to fit 80% of your mission and rent the rest.
 
BobThePilot said:
Well you're not normal then. Most sane people quickly come to the realization that repeatedly flying 1200 nm in a taildragger for business purpose is not a great idea. Crossing the Rockies no less.
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Plenty of planes without pressure or FIKI that aren't low performance tail draggers, though what tail dragger has to do with it I don't know. My Travelair didn't have either and neither does my 310. No particular need to cross high altitude hazardous terrain either. Follow I-20 to the flat lands and hit Direct To.
 
Glasair I-TD, or II-TD.

Tailwheel skills are one of the most important you can have for ground handling. I don't know of any 4 pax TW plane that has that kind of performance. You could possibly find an old Bellanca 14-19-x with the big engine in it and get close, but not that fast.

Here's a bargain near you, but it's rather slow. It will teach good skills, hold plenty, and quite safe. http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1728603.html
 
Four seats and 175 knots just doesn't come for $30 or $40K, trike or taildragger. Even those old Bellancas, with their wooden wings, for a low price, pose a lot of question marks regarding structural integrity. I know one that was mostly junk because of center section rot. They do that.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
Four seats and 175 knots just doesn't come for $30 or $40K, trike or taildragger. Even those old Bellancas, with their wooden wings, for a low price, pose a lot of question marks regarding structural integrity. I know one that was mostly junk because of center section rot. They do that.

Dan
Click to expand...

Those Bellancas, except the turbos up high, aren't close to 175 kts.

I used to fly his routes frequently, that's why I bought a twin right off the bat.
 
If you're willing to compromise on speed, a Cessna 170 is a mighty fine taildragger to own, especially in your price range.
 
docmirror said:
Glasair I-TD, or II-TD.

Tailwheel skills are one of the most important you can have for ground handling. I don't know of any 4 pax TW plane that has that kind of performance. You could possibly find an old Bellanca 14-19-x with the big engine in it and get close, but not that fast.

Here's a bargain near you, but it's rather slow. It will teach good skills, hold plenty, and quite safe. http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1728603.html
Click to expand...



You beat me to it. There's a Glasair I TD in Amarillo right now that can be had for $29K. I think it's still on controller.

A 180/185 with 0-520 or 550 with extended tanks would fit his extended mission @ ~155kts with spats, but above his price.
 
Henning said:
Those Bellancas, except the turbos up high, aren't close to 175 kts.

that's why I bought a twin right off the bat.
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Why don't you post up your list of fast 4 seat TW planes that can be had for $30-40k? Book on the 14-19-2 is 170kts. Can you do better at that price?

No one cares....
 
docmirror said:
Why don't you post up your list of fast 4 seat TW planes that can be had for $30-40k? Book on the 14-19-2 is 170kts. Can you do better at that price?

No one cares....
Click to expand...

None, none manage it. The two closest I can think of are the Spartan Exec and Beech 17, and neither are even close to the budget. Book on the 14-19-2 is 170 kts or MPH?
 
txflyer said:
A 180/185 with 0-520 or 550 with extended tanks would fit his extended mission @ ~155kts with spats, but above his price.
Click to expand...

Certainly not with in the budget, I've been watching for a 180/0-470 under 50 for a long time.
 
Henning said:
None, none manage it. The two closest I can think of are the Spartan Exec and Beech 17, and neither are even close to the budget. Book on the 14-19-2 is 170 kts or MPH?
Click to expand...

Book says kts. Will it do that? No way, no how, but that's what someone made it do way back on a perfect day, with a perfect plane. I'm pretty sure it will still do ~160kts with the 230HP, which isn't too shabby.
 
If I'm going twin for that mission, I'm getting a Twin Comanche. It'll be close on price, but it'll need some work at that price.
 
He hasn't even got his pilot's license yet. He's just stoked, thrilled and excited like all of us were at one time.

Let him dream....
 
Henning said:
Wow, twin Comanches are around for less than $40k now?
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One here in the south asking $42k now. Hail damaged, needs some int work but the engines and props are ok.
 
LandSickness said:
If you're willing to compromise on speed, a Cessna 170 is a mighty fine taildragger to own, especially in your price range.
Click to expand...

Most of them under 30k are junk
 
Scud_072 said:
2 sweater..... that is classic! Thanks
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Gotta love auto correct.:D BTW, the tail wheel, nor any other attribute of a plane makes you an excellent pilot, what and how you think makes you an excellent pilot. There is no skill you will learn with a tail wheel that you can't with a Tri gear plane, it's just that when you make a mistake on landing, the costs go up with a tail wheel plane, and you have a greater risk in low speed ground ops as well due to poor forward visibility. Once the plane is off the ground, they all fly the same. What makes the difference is the decisions you make.
 
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Henning said:
Plenty of planes without pressure or FIKI that aren't low performance tail draggers, though what tail dragger has to do with it I don't know. My Travelair didn't have either and neither does my 310. No particular need to cross high altitude hazardous terrain either. Follow I-20 to the flat lands and hit Direct To.
Click to expand...

Yes I figured I would head to Albuquerque, stop, refuel and then push on from there. Avoid the Rockies!
 
So, are you feverishly shopping for that elusive Bellanca 14-19-2 now? :rofl:
 
docmirror said:
Glasair I-TD, or II-TD.

Tailwheel skills are one of the most important you can have for ground handling. I don't know of any 4 pax TW plane that has that kind of performance. You could possibly find an old Bellanca 14-19-x with the big engine in it and get close, but not that fast.

Here's a bargain near you, but it's rather slow. It will teach good skills, hold plenty, and quite safe. http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1728603.html
Click to expand...

Thank you! I will check it out.
 
Silvaire said:
He hasn't even got his pilot's license yet. He's just stoked, thrilled and excited like all of us were at one time.

Let him dream....
Click to expand...




On POA? :rofl::rofl:

Wouldn't it be more humane to dash his hopes and dreams on the rocks right now? :devil:;)

OP, you'll either figure it out, or learn the hard way, that the purchase price of an aircraft is relatively insignificant. But I wish you good luck, and all the best.


:)
 
Scud_072 said:
I am a 55 year old student pilot who is post solo and starting on XC. I own a business and plan on buying a plane. I don't want to just get my license and fly.. I want to become a great pilot. I plan to go on and get my instrument rating very soon after my PP. I have been reading that to become a great pilot, you must fly a taildragger, or if you did fly one, you become better. So lets say I go for that. And lets say I have $30K - $40K to spend cash for a plane. What is an older 4 passenger taildragger that has decent speed to fit my mission below?

As for my mission... I live in So Cal and will fly to the SF Bay Area quite often. That is about 235NM from my home airport. I have other business that will take me to North Las Vegas Nevada (KVGT) @ 250NM and Las Vegas New Mexico @ 725NM. Then I have a client I go see once or twice a month in Iowa on the Mississippi River @1400NM. I have done the calculations for flying there in one day (8 hours flight time @ 175NMPH plus one stop for lunch, fuel and leg stretch. I am thinking this is a bit much for a new pilot but I am dreaming. The fuel cost $1200 round trip but a commercial ticket is only $500 so I am not sure if my client will pay more than $500 for the ride and if it is really worth it to fly myself that far. I can get there commercially in about the same amount of time figuring all the time required door to door with both modes of transportation. We can leave this flight out of the mission profile for now, but it might be a great way to build up some miles?
Click to expand...

First of all... I am overwhelmed and humbled by all the help and advice.... Thank you all so very much.

Second, let me be clear... There are two missions:
A. I live in So Cal and will fly to the SF Bay Area quite often. That is about 235NM from my home airport. I have other business that will take me to North Las Vegas Nevada (KVGT) @ 250NM and Las Vegas New Mexico @ 725NM. Possibly San Diego and Reno.

B. Then I have a client I go see once or twice a month in Iowa on the Mississippi River @1400NM. I have done the calculations for flying there in one day (8 hours flight time @ 175NMPH plus one stop for lunch, fuel and leg stretch. I am thinking this is a bit much for a new pilot but I am dreaming. The fuel cost $1200 round trip but a commercial ticket is only $500 so I am not sure if my client will pay more than $500 for the ride and if it is really worth it to fly myself that far.

My taildragger question was about mission A at $30 - $40K I was thinking about a Bonanza for mission B. but not at $35K but most of you think it is too much of a plan and I don't have $150Gs laying around.

Hope that helps....
 
Scud_072 said:
First of all... I am overwhelmed and humbled by all the help and advice.... Thank you all so very much.

Second, let me be clear... There are two missions:
A. I live in So Cal and will fly to the SF Bay Area quite often. That is about 235NM from my home airport. I have other business that will take me to North Las Vegas Nevada (KVGT) @ 250NM and Las Vegas New Mexico @ 725NM. Possibly San Diego and Reno.

B. Then I have a client I go see once or twice a month in Iowa on the Mississippi River @1400NM. I have done the calculations for flying there in one day (8 hours flight time @ 175NMPH plus one stop for lunch, fuel and leg stretch. I am thinking this is a bit much for a new pilot but I am dreaming. The fuel cost $1200 round trip but a commercial ticket is only $500 so I am not sure if my client will pay more than $500 for the ride and if it is really worth it to fly myself that far.

My taildragger question was about mission A at $30 - $40K I was thinking about a Bonanza for mission B. but not at $35K but most of you think it is too much of a plan and I don't have $150Gs laying around.

Hope that helps....
Click to expand...

Yeah, trip B you're much better off in an airliner for more reasons than just money unless you can be very flexible in your schedule for coming and going. Trip A you can do in nearly anything pretty efficiently. Where in SoCal? Where are a good range of flying clubs with a variety of planes. If I lived in San Diego, I'd just join Plus One Flyers.
 
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