[rant] How to lose a customer. Car stuff / Replacing Spark Plugs

So First off I am seething as I write this.
I just had a mechanic tell me "There is no way you can change your own plugs" OMG. It's cold and I don't want to but I sure as hell can.
Perhaps he actually meant "There is no way you can change your own plugs unless you have a frame lift and an engine jack. I can see where he may have sold dozens of sets of plugs to diy'ers that think they can do anything, and then have them complain because he sold them plugs that an owner can't change. And maybe you told him that you screwed up the oil change and that put the idea in his head that you need to be protected from yourself.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but after years of dealing with the public, I can remember scores/hundreds of similar situations where that would apply.

And even if I am dead wrong, my suggestion is to use your internet skills and social skills to find a good, quality mechanic that you trust and give him your business. (there was one reference earlier; check him out). After you work with an honest mechanic for a while and trust is built both ways, if he ever does make a mistake (which can happen with the best), or if you ever do need a favor, the odds of coming to a satisfactory conclusion are greatly improved.
 
All cars puff a little white smoke until the exhaust system warms up. It's called condensation.

No need to replace a coil pack unless it has gone bad.

Yeah no kidding. I put 210,000 miles on my Corolla. I changed the plugs out once at 100,000, and other than oil and tires, that's pretty much it.
 
It doesn't.

If the vehicle has COP ignition system, like most modern vehicles do, then you may end up with the problem I described. Look at the picture in the link. The valve cover gasket seals the spark plug access tube. If that tube fills with oil it can, and probably will, ruin the coil over time.

Bad coils and misfires can ruin catylytic converters. At least on my car it did.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/copign.htm

... and my car did smoke on startup until I replaced the coil and gasket. Go figure.
 
I say Nope that's too expensive and he says you are not going to find a cheaper price. I said I will just do it myself. He says "You can't change these plugs"

Could you change the plugs? If not then he's right, no?

I've done valve jobs, timing belts, clutches, bottom ends, tons of brake jobs, stroked motorcycle engines, etc. I bought a 1995 GTP (DOHC V-6 FWD) from a friend of mine. First thing I wanted to do was a tune up and timing belt. Opened the hood, took one look then said "forget it". Took it to a shop.

On that car you have to remove the intake manifold and a bunch of crap to reach the back plugs. Wasn't worth my time.
 
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I try to do most of my own work. I do a little ROI in my head balancing my time/ busted knuckles against cost.

I use a similar approach but have increased my hourly rate over the years. It helps that I've found a few good shops.
 
I could change the plugs. Removing the intake is trivial and the whole job requires no special tools.
 
Maybe a telescoping magnet to get the plug out after loosened
 
I'd change the oil&filter, run a can of seafoam or your favorite fuel injector cleaner through, then maybe change the plugs before getting too worried.

The deal with oil is that most of what's in that bottle is the same stuff between manufacturers but they use different additive packages.... these are the special anti-wear and contaminate neutralizing chemicals that are actually what gets "used up" in motor oil requiring it to be changed. Different manufacturers use different additives and some of them might be incompatible and cause problems when mixed.

Then again, they might not. You might have even mixed two oils that came out of the same facility just in different bottles. They might have been similar enough that there was no issue to begin with. In fact, I would say the odds that mixing oils caused you any problem in a short amount of time are very small. There's a good reason why experts advise against doing that but it's far from instant engine death if you made the mistake and were I in your shoes I'd probably have topped off with whatever oil I had available too.

The variable valve timing system that one guy mentioned is an electronically controlled hydraulic valve that adjusts the valve timing for optimal performance. I have heard of low oil causing problems with those systems and an oil change fixing them.

best of luck
 
Can someone tell me how to change the plugs on my 2005 GMC 2500 HD D/A? :lol:

When I was a mechanic way back in the day, I would tell a customer what was wrong with their vehicle. They would ask how much will it cost to fix it. I would say 100 bucks knowing full well it would only cost 50. When they picked it up I would say that it wasn't as bad as I thought and was able to save money, then charge 50 bucks. The customer always thought I was saving them money and left feeling good.

The problem today is that it is hard to find qualified mechanics. Mechanic helpers are a dime a dozen. The shop owners in my town all tell me thay could do 10 times more work if they could only find qualified and competent mechanics.

It baffles me because in my day we had to look at the vehicle, listen to it, maybe test drive it and try to diagnose the problem. Now all that needs to be done is hook up the scanner, look up the codes, then fix it.

I can't wait to get my '70 chevy pickup with the straight 6 and standard transmission back on the road.
 
I could change the plugs. Removing the intake is trivial and the whole job requires no special tools.

If you can change the plugs, you can change the coils, too. No problem.

I do recommend a blast with Aero Kroil before trying to loosen 100K mile plugs. I swear that stuff is magic.
 
The other thing is now we have youtube.
I looked up "changing motor mount" 06 Altima

I watched the video and new I could do that and save $500

Back in the day, maybe the haynes manuals or maintenance manuals but most people don't want to dig through all that.
 
Aaaahhh, the stories of shady mechanics and the practices of lying to customers just to steal .... errr .... "earn" their money. Capitalism at its best.

Best mechanic story I have is when a co-worker of mine (an engineer, to wit) asked me(since I pay for a hobbyist engine builder here at work) whether the replacement of spark plugs on his 2001 Civic should cost $150. After I stopped laughing and caught a breath, I explained to him that the plugs themselves cost $10 for the whole 4-pack (for good plugs) and he can do the labor in 15 minutes.
He said "maybe YOU can" to which I replied: "nope, I'd be done in 5 but I will oversee you, hand you the tools (1 flathead screwdriver, 1 ratchet, 1 socket) and you will be done in 15 minutes". And so we did.

You know the whole spiel with "give a man a fish ... teach a man to fish ... blah blah blah".

Big mistake.
He was back a month later with new front A-arm bushings and ball joints. :lol:
 
The other thing is now we have youtube.
I looked up "changing motor mount" 06 Altima

I watched the video and new I could do that and save $500

Back in the day, maybe the haynes manuals or maintenance manuals but most people don't want to dig through all that.

+1.

I love it when the manuals say something like "remove the #62 upper alternate fuel rail bearing" and it's no where to be found anywhere in the book, parts diagrams, nor are there instructions on how to remove it.
 
Ummmm.... you do realize you have a auto repair and part resource to confer with on who to go to to address this issue?

So my wife was teaching my daughter to drive. It didn't go as planned. (as THEY planned. it went exactly as I expected)

Do you have a passenger side door for a 2007 Ford Freestyle?
 
So my wife was teaching my daughter to drive. It didn't go as planned. (as THEY planned. it went exactly as I expected)

Do you have a passenger side door for a 2007 Ford Freestyle?
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
How does the valve cover gasket leak oil to the inside of the spark plug?

If it's leaking onto the exhaust manifold, it's a fire risk, but otherwise, it's an annoyance. There is no way to get it inside the cat from that fault. Much more likely, you have excessive blow-by and you're blowing oil through the PCV system.
It's pretty easy when the sparkplug goes through the valve cover and the gasket isn't sealing well.
Could well be that with the variable valve timing, the cheapo oil from the "quicky mart" was causing trouble with the cam-retard get-up, thus causin the check engine light. Also oil seeping past the valve stem will cause a puff on startup.
 
It's pretty easy when the sparkplug goes through the valve cover and the gasket isn't sealing well.

I suppose it could be if the spark plug was also unseated.

But, then, there would be bigger problems and the noise would be rather obvious.

It's easy to fill up the OUTside of the spark plug with oil if it's a through-the-cover type. Not the inside.
 
I suppose it could be if the spark plug was also unseated.

But, then, there would be bigger problems and the noise would be rather obvious.

It's easy to fill up the OUTside of the spark plug with oil if it's a through-the-cover type. Not the inside.

#43 I posted exactly how this happens and what problems it causes. I've been through it before. No noise, smoke on startup, ruined coil.

I'm still not sure what you mean by "inside".
 
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Replacing all the packs at once is a matter of philosophy. Being that they are a semi wear item, I'd probably want all six done so I didn't have to come back every 10,000 miles or so as they failed.

I usually replace things like that if they're a pain in the gluteus maximus to get to and I have to be in there anyway. I look up the job in ALLDATA, decide which items are possible future failures, and weigh the annoyance of doing it all over again against the cost of the part(s).

I also tend to replace the spark plug wires any time I change the plugs if it's a pain to get to them. If I can reach around and replace them without disassembling anything, then I might leave them be; but otherwise they get replaced. Also vacuum hoses, PCV valves, and so forth if they're in that neighborhood. Taking the chance of having do spend another two or three hours disassembling and reassembling everything to change a $4.99 part doesn't make sense to me if I'm going to be in there anyway. Gaskets as well if they're part of the sequence.

Rich
 
Well I have been driving all over this evening and it is running fine.
I believe it was a quantity issue versus type of oil issue. I suspect I had way too much oil in the car.

Shell Rapid Lube made themselves a new customer today.
I need to go write 2 yelp reviews.
 
Definitely sounds like coolant. It drips into the cylinders when parked, and puffs out on initial start. Tune-up will not fix that.

I hadn't heard of ignition coils being replaced as part of routine tune-ups. But they are easy to replace. You can get then on amazon and do it yourself.

Back in the bad old days, a tune up could consist of replacing the spark plugs, breaker points, and condenser, and adjusting the timing. Sometimes you would replace the distributor cap and rotor, and possibly the wires as well. Imports quite often needed a periodic valve adjustment as well. Nowadays you typically replace the plugs, and wires if so equipped at 80,000 - 100,000 miles. If someone said they wanted a tune up on a modern car, I'm not sure what that would consist of.

I never got an oil light or any other warnings. but I heard the tapping and the oil filter was loose. really loose.

I used to work on classic cars and the sound was reminiscent of not enough oil getting up into the valves.

When I added the oil, the tapping stopped.

I have to drive across town to pick my son up from school and will have a better idea of how the car is behaving. Few miles on the Highway and a few miles in stop n go.

Most likely, that is what you were hearing, the top end usually gets oil starved first. Hopefully all you were hearing was that the hydraulic adjusters were low on oil pressure, and you had the equivalent of unadjusted valves. Since the engine was warm and had oil previously, you should be in good shape. Also, the white smoke was most likely from the overfilled crankcase. If your crankshaft was dipping down into the oil in the pan, odds are some of the oil was being forced through the crankcase ventilation system, hence the smoke and rough running. Excessive engine oil can cause poor ignition at low speeds and detonation at high loads. Again, odds are your engine is fine and hasn't suffered any long term damage.

I hope so. 115k miles and close to paid off.
If I can go 5 years w/ no payment, that would be ideal.
I need to take better care of it though.

The mechanic said he had 2 cars in this month that had over 400k miles on them. He said to do that, you have to maintain them impeccably. He said there is no reason I shouldn't be able to get mine to 200k if I treat it right.

You should be able to get another five years out of that vehicle without any serious repairs. From my personal experience and that of my friends and neighbors, you can get a relatively trouble free 10 years or so, and after that, a few more years with reasonable maintenance and repair costs.

I had a first generation Focus that I recently sold after 12 years, and previous to that, and Aerostar van for 10 and a half. Neither required a major repair. What I found was that for the first 7 or 8 years, the only things either car needed were very minor, like a window regulator or the thermostat housing, and nothing very often other than wear items. After that, the car starts needing a few more, and more expensive things, like an alternator, fuel pump, or radiator.

I have been doing most of my own work, particularly on maintenance and wear items. On repairs, depends what it was and when it happened. I had a set of coil packs start misbehaving on a Sunday evening. Since I wasn't going to get to that until the next weekend, and driving the car with a significant misfire could destroy the catalytic converter, I got someone to do it Monday morning. On the other hand, I lost an alternator one Thursday afternoon in the summer, so I limped home, and charged the battery Friday morning so I could get to work and back, then replaced it myself on a Saturday. When the alternator on my wife's Odyssey failed, I let Honda do that, a V6 minivan is no fun to work on.

I don't how your garage is set up, but mine is not at all conducive to working on a car. It's small, so small that my tools are in the basement. I can't open the car doors fully in the garage, it's not wide enough. Also, on the current generation of cars, so much is done from the underside that they're a real pain if you don't have a lift. I have to say I'm reaching my lifetime tolerance for staring at the bottom of a car that's six inches in front of my face, because that's as high as I can get the car.

I will also have to say that the older a car gets, the more of a PITA it is to work on. If you ever drive where there's salt, things start rusting together, and even if you don't, they get stuck anyway. All the soft parts (rubber, plastic, etc) start getting brittle and begin to crack. Coolant hoses get stiff and hard to get on and off, A/C hoses become porous and let the refrigerant leak out, the A/C and heat start working less well, the car starts developing squeaks and rattles... well, you get the picture. Assuming this is your daily driver, and you need it on a daily basis, working on it becomes a problem because the older it is, the more likely it is that something related will break while you're working on it. I was replacing the clutch master cylinder on the Focus, when the piece on the clutch pedal that drives the master cylinder came off in my hand. If I had the time and the shop space, I could have pulled the pedal box out and rewelded it, but I have neither, so off it went to the shop. Didn't save anything on that job.

I have two other issues with trying to keep an older car going. First off, most of us are pretty reasonable parts changers, but are lousy diagnosticians. That comes from experience, which we don't get much of. The second one is that the replacement parts situation these days is just sorry. It used to be you could get aftermarket replacement parts that were of a decent quality, at maybe a 40 percent discount from what the dealer got for that item. I've found that if the part isn't factory, or isn't from a brand name you can trust, you don't want it. The no name parts don't fit and they don't last.

I bought a new car last year, I plan on keeping it for about 10 years. My wife gets a new one every eight, I don't want her having any issues on the road.

I'm not sure what additional maintenance you'd want to do to keep your car going a long time. If you haven't already done so, have your transmission fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid (if so equipped),and coolant replaced. Regular oil changes at the manufacturer's recommended interval is important as well. I change my fuel filter every 3 years and the air filter about every 25,000 miles, at least on the gasoline only car, I plan to go longer on the PHEV since the engine doesn't run as much. Also, get any fluid leaks taken care of promptly. Hot oil will erode cooling and A/C hoses, and timing and accessory belts, and I can't think hot coolant will do anything nice either.

What I found on the Focus was that it was the soft parts that were failing, not the mechanical stuff. At 130,000 miles, the only signs of wear I had on the drivetrain was a bit of valve clatter at startup on cold mornings, which took care of itself after a few seconds. The transmission shifted as new, the engine pulled strong, and was going about 3500 miles per quart of oil. However, some of the plastic pieces started breaking around year 12, and that's when I decided I wasn't saving enough to justify keeping it. That's the last part of the picture to driving an older car, it all depends on your tolerance for automotive entropy. If you want everything working as it came from the factory, I'm thinking you'll want a new one after 10 years, more of less. If you can tolerate things slowly falling apart, you can probably save some money (though not a lot) by keeping the old ride a little longer.
 
I don't how your garage is set up, but mine is not at all conducive to working on a car. It's small, so small that my tools are in the basement. I can't open the car doors fully in the garage, it's not wide enough. Also, on the current generation of cars, so much is done from the underside that they're a real pain if you don't have a lift. I have to say I'm reaching my lifetime tolerance for staring at the bottom of a car that's six inches in front of my face, because that's as high as I can get the car.

Oh my garage is an abstract maze that mirrors my scatter brained ADD world. It is conducive to starting to work on a model plane but then deciding that you need to stain the fence but as you near the paint brush area, you realize you haven't finished wiring that old radio next to the computer that needs a new power supply which you really need to order but when you went to the garage to get the model number, you realized your weeds were growing like crazy so you drove to a dude's house in the woods that buys trash lawn mowers and repairs them and sells them for $75 to you get that home, mow the yard and then set the mower by the weed and feed you bought but didn't apply because you needed to finish gluing the main spar on the model airplane you are building.

It is like that but in an organized sort of way.
 
how did you determine it was leaking from the oil filter? This is not a common thing unless someone seriously messed up.

Yes. One way to mess up is to not discover that the old gasket was left stuck on the engine, when removing the old filter. After that, install the new filter, with its gasket, so that there are now two gaskets instead of one. That will leak, but it's easy to find on a motorcycle. DAMHIK.
 
didn't read all the replies, maybe already covered.

You have a car with "coil on plug", there are individual hi voltage coils on top of each spark plug. The fault code was prolly P0302, intermittent misfire on cyl 2. Has nothing to do with leaking oil.

go here: www.rockauto.com click on your make, year, model, engine type. Order ONE coil and ONE spark plug. Locate the cyl 2 on your car, I think will be the rear bank, left-most cyl(but double check). Remove the snap connector by sliding the latch to the side, and remove the plastic connector to the coil. Remove the 2 small screws holding the coil to the cam cover. Pull the coil straight out(may need to pry up a bit).

Now, the ugly part and why the mechanic said 'you can't do the plug replacement' on this car. The plug well requires a flexi-extention or a u-joint drive with a standard extension and another extension on that to get in there and still have room against the firewall to turn the ratchet. It is a PAIN in the asp on sideway V6 cars to do the rear bank of cyl. Plan on having another car avail to you so you can go to the tool store to get the right combo of extensions and flexi joints to get that plug out. Sometimes, you can drop the deep socket in the well, then follow that with a 4" extension, then a U joint, then a 2" extension, then the ratchet. Sometimes you can get the ratchet on the U joint, sometimes, the extension will be high enough to reach with the ratchet, but - you have to assemble the socket, and extension in the plug well, and it ain't fun cuz you CAN'T SEE in there. If cyl 2 is the front bank, you're home free, easy pickins'.

Other option. Take it to an indy mech and tell him you want no 2 plug and coil swapped for a P0302 code, and ask what that will cost. Pray the removal of the old plug doesn't ruin the threads in the head, or you will be calling this guy: blownoutsparkplug.com.

Or, you could bring it over to my house and I'll do it for a steak and a few beers.
 
I'm in CO regularly. I just came back from there today. Had to wait out the massive snow storm.

I have a few steaks here and there and a few mechanical tasks...

okay, not really, I fix them as the crop up.
 
I am going to start fetching Doc when I need crap done.
Guy knows how to fix anything.

Doc, if you help me fix my grill, I will cook you that steak.
 
I am going to start fetching Doc when I need crap done.
Guy knows how to fix anything.

Doc, if you help me fix my grill, I will cook you that steak.

I don't know how to fix anything. Just the other day I was completely flummoxed by an Aermotor windmill gear drive. Took me a good 3 hours to figure out the mess full of goo and gears. I just decided that I have no business hanging on to a piece of angle iron 30 feet up in the air, while the wind blows me around, and I'm looking into the well of the drive box. I just said screw it, I'm getting a solar well pump and leave the windmill for decoration.
 
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