Quick ways to calculate crosswind component when flying?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
Hey guys,

Just curious as to how you guys calculate crosswind component when you are flying...I suppose you could whip out the E6B calculator, but that doesn't seem like the best way. My instructor taught me the clock method if your familiar with that...it seems to work pretty good (although the DPE I took my PPL checkride with didn't like it and taught me some other confusing way that I forgot already). DPE was pretty crucial on this and wanted EXACT numbers...something about take the winds divide it by 5...add 70% to that...then take the derivative divided by 5 and take the integral from 0 to 5...(just kidding but it seriously was confusing)

So what are your methods?
 
Fly over and read the windsock

Read the trees, smoke or water


Go off your crab angle

I don't really bother with any type of math for this stuff, based on general observations you should be able to tell if it's something you can handle.
 
30 degrees = 50% of the wind is crosswind
45 degrees = 75% of the wind is crosswind
More than 60 just apply 100% of the wind as crosswind

Not perfect, but a good rule of thumb.
 
I used this

10 remove 0 = 1 = 1/6
20 = 2 = 2/6
30 = 3 = 3/6
40 = 4 = 4/6
50 = 5 = 5/6
60 = 6 = 6/6

of the wind speed.

e.g. 20 degrees off at 30 knots. = 2/6 (1/3) of 30 = 10kt XW
 
bflynn said:
30 degrees = 50% of the wind is crosswind
45% = 75% of the wind is crosswind
More than 60% just apply 100% of the wind as crosswind

Not perfect, but a good rule of thumb.
Click to expand...

Yep thats the "clock" method I use...the DPE I had hated that...but I thought it was great...no joke during the oral he asked me what the crosswind component for the given situation would be and the clock method was 1 knot off of the real answer...he said he didn't want "guesstimates"...so I used a chart...then he proceeded to give me this formula...
 
James331 said:
Fly over and read the windsock

Read the trees, smoke or water


Go off your crab angle

I don't really bother with any type of math for this stuff, based on general observations you should be able to tell if it's something you can handle.
Click to expand...

Wow James I can't believe your still alive using that kind of judgment! ;)

Thanks for the input...seems reasonable
 
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but fltplan GO has a good wind w/airport calculator. so you punch in the airport code and the windspeed and direction and it calculates the x/wind component and headwind/tailwind component and recommends the correct runway to use at that field.
 
CC268 said:
Wow James I can't believe your still alive using that kind of judgment! ;)

Thanks for the input...seems reasonable
Click to expand...

Lol, I've gotten better results reading trees, windsocks and smoke than AWOSs, those bugger lie like crazy ;)

Hold up.... are we talking crosswinds for landing or for cruise here??

My comments were based on landing at uncontrolled fields
 
Enroute my PFD shows the wind and direction along with the head/tail and left/right components.
Landing ATIS to pick a runway then what James331 said. Windsock, crab angle and any other clues.
 
eman1200 said:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but fltplan GO has a good wind w/airport calculator. so you punch in the airport code and the windspeed and direction and it calculates the x/wind component and headwind/tailwind component and recommends the correct runway to use at that field.
Click to expand...

Doesn't foreflight have the same thing? Wouldn't you need internet connection for that to work in flight?
 
James331 said:
Lol, I've gotten better results reading trees, windsocks and smoke than AWOSs, those bugger lie like crazy ;)

Hold up.... are we talking crosswinds for landing or for cruise here??

My comments were based on landing at uncontrolled fields
Click to expand...

Yea for landing either controlled or uncontrolled!
 
CC268 said:
Yep thats the "clock" method I use...the DPE I had hated that...but I thought it was great...no joke during the oral he asked me what the crosswind component for the given situation would be and the clock method was 1 knot off of the real answer...he said he didn't want "guesstimates"...so I used a chart...then he proceeded to give me this formula...
Click to expand...

Sounds like his pet peeve since his numbers were guestimates. For my checkride I had a chart and it was fine.
 
CC268 said:
Doesn't foreflight have the same thing? Wouldn't you need internet connection for that to work in flight?
Click to expand...

dunno about FF cause I use GP but I 'think' fltplan downloads airport info. can't see why it would need an internet connection for that tool, as you're manually entering in wind direction/speed. it already has the airport runway information stored locally. but I don't really use it much, I have a general idea in my head.
 
bflynn said:
30 degrees = 50% of the wind is crosswind
45 degrees = 75% of the wind is crosswind
More than 60 just apply 100% of the wind as crosswind

Not perfect, but a good rule of thumb.
Click to expand...

I like it. If I ever get perfect, then I'll look for something more perfect.
 
CC268 said:
Doesn't foreflight have the same thing? Wouldn't you need internet connection for that to work in flight?
Click to expand...

I just tested this on my phone by going to airplane mode, still works just fine.
 
Oh okay I see...I misunderstood the app...anyways it looks like the clock method is probably the best way to go for quick estimates.
 
CC268 said:
Hey guys,

Just curious as to how you guys calculate crosswind component when you are flying...I suppose you could whip out the E6B calculator, but that doesn't seem like the best way. My instructor taught me the clock method if your familiar with that...it seems to work pretty good (although the DPE I took my PPL checkride with didn't like it and taught me some other confusing way that I forgot already). DPE was pretty crucial on this and wanted EXACT numbers...something about take the winds divide it by 5...add 70% to that...then take the derivative divided by 5 and take the integral from 0 to 5...(just kidding but it seriously was confusing)

So what are your methods?
Click to expand...

A good ole fashoined round E6B with the wind thingy on the back and a pencil are very fast. Just takes a few seconds once you've done it a couple times. Not very convient once you're in the air though. It woulda been a trip if the DPE said "what's that"
 
eman1200 said:
dunno about FF cause I use GP but I 'think' fltplan downloads airport info. can't see why it would need an internet connection for that tool, as you're manually entering in wind direction/speed. it already has the airport runway information stored locally. but I don't really use it much, I have a general idea in my head.
Click to expand...

Forflite gives you little arrows that point in the relative direction to the runway. Red for tail and green for head with numbers for the crosswind component
 
If winds are less than 25 kts for landing, they are not on my tail, I don't caculate xw component. I just do what takes to remain aligned with the runway and straighten up before the mains touch. Anything over 25 kts direct xw, I run out of rudder.
 
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RV10flyer said:
If winds are less than 25 kts for landing, they are not on my tail, I don't caculate xw component. I just do what takes to remain aligned with the runway and straighten up before the mains touch.
Click to expand...

But that's the real world. On the practical the DPE want to see your understanding of crosswind component. A lot of folks think the crosswind component of a 45 degree crosswind is 1/2. It doesn't work that way.

Honestly though, I think the "6 rule" should be close enough for a private checkride.
 
luvflyin said:
A good ole fashoined round E6B with the wind thingy on the back and a pencil are very fast. Just takes a few seconds once you've done it a couple times. Not very convient once you're in the air though. It woulda been a trip if the DPE said "what's that"
Click to expand...


Seriously!! Reading all the bestest guestimatingous ways of doing this,,, Im practically sick of reading all
the loser excuses for not using an actual cross wind calculator!
How many instructors or testers are going to complain or demand a better way,,,, than an official E6B?????
 
robert lomax said:
Seriously!! Reading all the bestest guestimatingous ways of doing this,,, Im practically sick of reading all
the loser excuses for not using an actual cross wind calculator!
How many instructors or testers are going to complain or demand a better way,,,, than an official E6B?????
Click to expand...

Those that know what the hell they are doing.

You must demonstrate that you understand crosswind calculations for the flight planning portion.

In the air, you simply do not need nor want the extra workload of digging out an E6B. They aren't hard to use, but task saturation becomes a highly significant risk on approach to an airport, even VFR. While you're digging in your flight bag, you could be looking for converging traffic, getting the weather, working out descent and routes to the airport to to keep your passengers comfortable, visually locating the airport and its traffic, turning on the lights if necessary, running the descent and before-landing checklists, etc. LOTS of stuff is higher priority than getting one more decimal place of precision.

Crosswind calculations good enough to judge a landing can be done in your head. The 30 deg = 1/2 wind, 45 deg = 0.7 (closer to 2/3 than 3/4) 60+ deg = all method works fine for that.
 
MAKG1 said:
Those that know what the hell they are doing.

You must demonstrate that you understand crosswind calculations for the flight planning portion.

In the air, you simply do not need nor want the extra workload of digging out an E6B. They aren't hard to use, but task saturation becomes a highly significant risk on approach to an airport, even VFR. While you're digging in your flight bag, you could be looking for converging traffic, getting the weather, working out descent and routes to the airport to to keep your passengers comfortable, visually locating the airport and its traffic, turning on the lights if necessary, running the descent and before-landing checklists, etc. LOTS of stuff is higher priority than getting one more decimal place of precision.

Crosswind calculations good enough to judge a landing can be done in your head. The 30 deg = 1/2 wind, 45 deg = 0.7 (closer to 2/3 than 3/4) 60+ deg = all method works fine for that.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
robert lomax said:
Seriously!! Reading all the bestest guestimatingous ways of doing this,,, Im practically sick of reading all
the loser excuses for not using an actual cross wind calculator!
How many instructors or testers are going to complain or demand a better way,,,, than an official E6B?????
Click to expand...

hmm were you my DPE?!?! lol
 
quoting MAKG1
Those that know what the hell they are doing.

You must demonstrate that you understand crosswind calculations for the flight planning portion.

Cross wind Component is Not a speed! It is an Angle!
None of the short cut methods include the speed of the plane!
I fly Speed Racers Jet, the wind is blowing 10 kts, 90 deg to the runway,
I touchdown at 100 kts,,,
so the cross wind is 10, but the angle of the cross wind is only 6 deg!
I barely even notice....
 
robert lomax said:
Cross wind Component is Not a speed! It is an Angle!
None of the short cut methods include the speed of the plane!
I fly Speed Racers Jet, the wind is blowing 10 kts, 90 deg to the runway,
I touchdown at 100 kts,,,
so the cross wind is 10, but the angle of the cross wind is only 6 deg!
I barely even notice....
Click to expand...
Crosswind component IS a speed. It's wind correction angle you're talking about.

You seem to be confusing it with wind direction.

xw = tw * sin(wd-heading)

xw = crosswind component, tw = total wind, wd = wind direction. It's the same for EVERY airplane, and that's what the "max demonstrated crosswind" in the POH is.

wca = wd-heading only if the airspeed is zero.
 
Other than for planning on the ground and for your checkride, who cares? It's not like you apply a specific, pre-determined, amount of control input based on what the winds are. You fly the plane and use whatever inputs are necessary to keep it aligned with the runway. In flight, the actual numbers are basically irrelevant. While there's quite a bit of variation among DPEs, I've never heard of one asking for an in-flight x-wind component calculation.
 
robert lomax said:
Seriously!! Reading all the bestest guestimatingous ways of doing this,,, Im practically sick of reading all the loser excuses for not using an actual cross wind calculator!
How many instructors or testers are going to complain or demand a better way,,,, than an official E6B?????
Click to expand...

If you're decending into a field and you bust out a E6B and go heads down, I'd fail you on the spot if I were a DPE.

Frankly just doing a downwind entry you should be able to get a good idea if the winds based on what you see and feel.

Sitting at cruise, all settled, maybe even with flight following, want to doubble check with the E6B, sure.

Being able to make good off the cuff numbers is WAAAY more important than being able to bust out a calculator, a monkey can use a calculator, doing rule of thumb numbers is what's going to save your bacon at some point, ofcourse knowing the difference between a situation where you want to bust out the exact calculator, and when eyes outside and quick off the cuff numbers should've used, that's equally as important.
 
MAKG1 said:
Crosswind component IS a speed. It's wind correction angle you're talking about.

You seem to be confusing it with wind direction.

xw = tw * sin(wd-heading)

xw = crosswind component, tw = total wind, wd = wind direction. It's the same for EVERY airplane, and that's what the "max demonstrated crosswind" in the POH is.

wca = wd-heading only if the airspeed is zero.
Click to expand...

You are right,,,...
I may be the only one to think about the missing plane speed I thought was important..
The thread is about Component ,,, Not correction angle...

I really thought , You and others were going to come back at my post to beat some sense into me,,,
Now im disapointed...

Thanks,,, this has been good...
 
bradg33 said:
Other than for planning on the ground and for your checkride, who cares? It's not like you apply a specific, pre-determined, amount of control input based on what the winds are. You fly the plane and use whatever inputs are necessary to keep it aligned with the runway. In flight, the actual numbers are basically irrelevant. While there's quite a bit of variation among DPEs, I've never heard of one asking for an in-flight x-wind component calculation.
Click to expand...

I'm with him^^^^. Just the way I learned to slip a Champ over a tree near the end of the runway at Red Stewart Airfield. Rudder and stick as required.

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
I'm with him^^^^. Just the way I learned to slip a Champ over a tree near the end of the runway at Red Stewart Airfield. Rudder and stick as required.

Cheers
Click to expand...


I like that!!!

Years ago I was running out of gas and day light when I found a one runway airport in Eastern Washington.
No atis, No time, No E6B calculations, in a C150 slipping sideways to the numbers cause of howling high winds,
straighten out at the last moment, wing so low, I swear I heard it scrape the runway,,, No damage found..
Spent the night in the taverns owners house,,, pulled it in to the Shell station in the morning,
bought a fillup of Hi test to finish my trip..
Ahhh,,, the old days...
 
luvflyin said:
I like it. If I ever get perfect, then I'll look for something more perfect.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Real life, I'm using that as a rough judgment during pre flight because it won't be that when I come into land. So an estimate is fine for me. Hmmm, a 10 kt wind at 100 for 03? Ok that is like a 9-10 kt crosswind. The airplane can handle that and the pilot can too.

But once you get on final and you're slipping in, that is when it really matters, you can either hold the center line without rolling too much or you can't.
 
Here's the trick, if you can remember 3 numbers .5 .7 and .9 you can solve 90% of all the Practical trig problems in your head in the few seconds.

for the crosswind component you just multiply the difference in directions by the sine of the angle.
 
whip out your smart phone and do sin(wind angle to runway)*wind speed, give him the number up to 5 or 6 decimal places.

sin(30deg)*15kt = 7.5kt
sin(8deg)*15kt=2.087596514kt **give this one to your dpe(kidding don't tork him off).

also, i agree the 'rule of thumbs' is fine for practice. if you run out of rudder, you'll know it.
 
Crosswind component...that is the thing to worry about when you run out of rudder on short final, right?
 
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Wow this thread really blew up quick...thanks for the input
 
Most children of the magenta have an iPad app for this.
 
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