Quick little question about number pronunciation for radio

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

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I'm getting the hang of the alpha radio codes, but since I am in Norway (an American, so English is my first language) I'm not able to tell if some of the phonetic help for pronunciation of numbers is for Norwegians or if pilots even in the US pronounce some numbers specially.

I know "niner" for nine. But they are giving phonetic advice for example for the number four as something like "fow-er" and for three as more like "tree", five being more some "fife"

As native English speaking pilots do you change pronunciation on any numbers (again, niner is a known one, I remember my dad using it) other than nine?
 
LongRoadBob said:
I'm getting the hang of the alpha radio codes, but since I am in Norway (an American, so English is my first language) I'm not able to tell if some of the phonetic help for pronunciation of numbers is for Norwegians or if pilots even in the US pronounce some numbers specially.

I know "niner" for nine. But they are giving phonetic advice for example for the number four as something like "fow-er" and for three as more like "tree", five being more some "fife"

As native English speaking pilots do you change pronunciation on any numbers (again, niner is a known one, I remember my dad using it) other than nine?
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Other than niner, no, but I think you will receive a variety of answers here.

I'm more curious what you hear in Norway.
 
Those are the recommended pronunciations (or at least, used to be recommended) that no one bothers with.
 
I only use niner. I've heard people say fife and tree but never heard any pilot or controller say fower.
 
Someone recently suggested that these were primarily developed because of pronunciation problems among those for whom English is a second (or third) language. Makes sense to me. And I refuse to say tree over the radio unless I just hit one.
 
Believe it or not, sometimes I forget to add the "er" to the 9, and quite surprisingly my engine still keeps spinning the prop. Admittedly this would probably create a communication barrier more easily in a place like Germany, but Colorado is a long hop from there. When I do forget to say it right I merely scold myself for sounding like an amateur... But, I quickly make up for it by dropping some insider jargon into my next transmission (EX: talking about my fish finder -- even though I don't have one).
 
Thanks all. I'll take that as answers. I will say niner, but otherwise pronounce correctly in English and leave it at that.

Everskyword, I hear them pronouncing mostly with Norwegian accents. I have a cd from the flight school, and they also are pronouncing the alphabet words sometimes kind of wrong. Here again I am going to speak English. I notice it most with words like foxtrot, tango, Yankee...quite a few actually and to the point where I have a little trouble (so far) hearing the words. Often very fast as well.
 
Those are indeed recommended pronunciation. Most single pilots and even domestic airliner pilots always use VHF, where it isn't truly necessary. However, if you ever use HF, it is necessary. HF is considerably noisier, and necessary for long range. You might need it in Norway, maybe, if you fly in the Arctic.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I'm getting the hang of the alpha radio codes, but since I am in Norway (an American, so English is my first language) I'm not able to tell if some of the phonetic help for pronunciation of numbers is for Norwegians or if pilots even in the US pronounce some numbers specially.

I know "niner" for nine. But they are giving phonetic advice for example for the number four as something like "fow-er" and for three as more like "tree", five being more some "fife"

As native English speaking pilots do you change pronunciation on any numbers (again, niner is a known one, I remember my dad using it) other than nine?
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I got my PPL in the UK and was taught the same pronunciations. The main issue was trying to avoid slipping into a Father Ted like Irish accent after saying "runway one tree"
 
write-stuff said:
Someone recently suggested that these were primarily developed because of pronunciation problems among those for whom English is a second (or third) language. Makes sense to me. And I refuse to say tree over the radio unless I just hit one.
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Hmm. G shoulda been George and J, Jungle.
 
MAKG1 said:
It was invented by military guys.
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No it wasn't. It was invented by ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization. The military adopted it later.
 
Coloradokevin said:
Believe it or not, sometimes I forget to add the "er" to the 9, and quite surprisingly my engine still keeps spinning the prop. Admittedly this would probably create a communication barrier more easily in a place like Germany, but Colorado is a long hop from there. When I do forget to say it right I merely scold myself for sounding like an amateur... But, I quickly make up for it by dropping some insider jargon into my next transmission (EX: talking about my fish finder -- even though I don't have one).
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Been flying for 16+ years, don't think I've ever heard "niner" on the radio, and that includes ATC.

"fish finder", "no joy" and "tally-ho" is for wankers. Present company excluded!
 
My tail number is 319CT and I actually pronounce it tree one niner charlie tango. but, I'm retired from the military and that's how I talked on the radio, there, too, so I'm probably hopeless.
 
Occasionally I'll hear a controller saying tree or fife. Niner is quite common, in my experience, probably because it prevents confusion with five (or fife).
 
Yeah, I hear and say "niner" routinely, but I stopped saying "tree" when controllers kept asking me to say it again. Kinda defeats the purpose.
 
I don't do any of that as a working pilot, just standard English
 
All of the controllers around here are really into the "tree" thing lately. Someone must have a stick up their butt above them and sent a memo.
 
Niner is pretty commonplace out in CA with controllers. Tree and Fife get said maybe 20% of the time as an unscientific observation average by ATC.

I use "niner" as I have two 9's in my tail number but that is it.

I knew I was spending too much time in the cockpit on the radio when I started giving out my phone number with "Niner" in it...that and I catch myself saying "take exit One-Niner" rather than exit Nineteen...
 
I only know what I read about niner, that it was specifically changed because of Germany, in that it could be confused with "Nein" which could be a problem, since "no" is a pretty charged word.

Palmpilot said:
Occasionally I'll hear a controller saying tree or fife. Niner is quite common, in my experience, probably because it prevents confusion with five (or fife).
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Shawn said:
Niner is pretty commonplace out in CA with controllers. Tree and Fife get said maybe 20% of the time as an unscientific observation average by ATC.

I use "niner" as I have two 9's in my tail number but that is it.

I knew I was spending too much time in the cockpit on the radio when I started giving out my phone number with "Niner" in it...that and I catch myself saying "take exit One-Niner" rather than exit Nineteen...
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Agree with all of the above. My tower uses niner on everything. Runway, ATIS numbers, tail numbers. etc. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard any tower or TRACON say "nine." One of the tower guys does say tree and fife. Sounds weird. He's the only one that I've heard thus far to adhere that strictly to the pronunciation.
 
I say tree, fife, and niner because they are technically correct. (The best kind of correct.) I hear approximately (read: these numbers are basically made up) 90% of GA pilots and 30% of airline pilots say niner and roughly 0% of both groups say tree and fife. Controllers are about 90% on niner and about 25% on tree and fife. I have not yet heard anyone consistently say tree but not fife or fife but not tree. Remember that the purpose of radio communication is for the receiving party to understand the transmission, so if you say three five nine and your pronunciation and enunciation are good, then it is fine. But if you put a handful of bubble gum in your mouth and mumble tree fife niner with a really thick Antarctican accent, you are going to have to "say again."
 
Just to add my vote, as someone who's plied the US and Canadian skies for a few decades, to those who said to only change nine to niner. Virtually all pros and most amateurs do it, so if you say "nine" you'd be the odd man (or woman) out. Otherwise, numbers are plain English. A few try the "tree" thing, but they sound weird.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I only know what I read about niner, that it was specifically changed because of Germany, in that it could be confused with "Nein" which could be a problem, since "no" is a pretty charged word.
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That seems like a bizarre explanation when the obvious one is that nine sounds like five.
 
Confusion with the German "nein" is an old wive's tale. It's used to avoid confusion with five.

When you're flying around at your local Class D airport, it's probably not going to matter. But when you're cruising along in northern Michigan listening to Minneapolis Center on some 50+ year old transmitter, which is carrying voices sent over telephone lines that are also 50+ years old, "tree" and "fife" both have their place. Those two pronunciations are especially effective when radio reception becomes poor. I have noticed it is used a lot in greater Chicagoland as well as the Indianapolis area with relative consistency compared to other parts of the country.
 
for anyone familiar with the guy in the tower at GMU.......in my experience 100% of the time, if I say 'runway one nine' he'll over stress "one ninERRRRRRRRRR" and if I say 'runway one niner' he'll say "runway NIIIIINE". kinda funny.
 
The controllers at UGN are good about using the recommended pronunciations, e.g., "fife", "tree". But it's not a big deal here. That's how most Chicago natives speak anyway :)
 
jstro said:
The controllers at UGN are good about using the recommended pronunciations, e.g., "fife", "tree". But it's not a big deal here. That's how most Chicago natives speak anyway :)
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The kicker...I grew up in Chicago. But lived on the west coast some years (lost MOST but not all of my accent) and then moved to Norway and speak mostly norwegian, and have heard (last few years I even hear it) from friends I have a slight norwegian accent when speaking english. I'm a bastard now I guess...little bit of this and little of that. In a band I'm in I'm singing "T for Texas" and get to the line "gimme a T for Thelma!" and sure enough I'm saying "gimme a T for Telma" (norwegian style) and had a helluva time singing it right.

So it's a total crapshoot what I'm going to sound like on the radio. I recall my dad on the radio when flying, the pitch (downward usually as he spoke) and cadence of it, but here it is different and that will influence me to I bet.
 
Oh you betcha, when you get one of them Yooper pilots you'll hear tree a lot. As in "can we get a couple two tree tousand feet higher der hey?"

:D
 
MAKG1 said:
However, if you ever use HF, it is necessary. HF is considerably noisier, and necessary for long range.
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Absolutely. When I was a Forward Air Controller, I would tell the new guys that they didn't have to use Tree and Fife on uncovered UHF, so long as they automatically used it when they needed to, generally on long HF shots and on encrypted UHF. You'll know if you need it.
 
LongRoadBob said:
In a band I'm in I'm singing "T for Texas" and get to the line "gimme a T for Thelma!" and sure enough I'm saying "gimme a T for Telma" (norwegian style) and had a helluva time singing it right.
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So "tree" is a no-brainer for Norwegians. :p
 
I always assumed that "tree" and "fife" were part of the ICAO standard because the English pronunciations of "th" and "v" don't come easily for non-native speakers.
 
Palmpilot said:
I always assumed that "tree" and "fife" were part of the ICAO standard because the English pronunciations of "th" and "v" don't come easily for non-native speakers.
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Nice thought, but wouldn't we say SEFEN and NOFEMBER then?

For non-native speakers, FOXTROT and JULIET might present additional problems.

And if you're Norwegian, what's the ICAO phonetic for ø?
 
I remember the controllers in Japan having problems with "Uniform". They somehow changed it into a two-syllable word.
 
Controllers are dinged for not using the book pronounciation of phonetic letters and numbers.

Phonetic numbers are not required when referring to flight numbers ("group form") so you'll hear a controller clear Cactus nine fourty-three to climb and maintain flight level tree niner zero.
 
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