questions regarding crop dusters - for screenplay.

S

savalos

Guest
Hello all,

I am a screenwriter attempting to get some things as correct as possible. I'm hoping that you can:
A. set me straight as needed, and
B. perhaps give me some suggestions.

I hope that you're willing and won't find me an annoyance.

With all of my questions, take into account the story is supposed to be a fun action adventure. Certain leaps of plausibility are okay, so long as I don't completely do
something wrong.

My first question is in regards to crop dusting...

if dusting in a converted Stearman (or any other converted two seater), how possible would it be to 'quickly' pull the hopper or whatever would be occupying the second seat -- to allow a second person to sit in it again?

Is there an 'aerial applicator' that could be converted to a two seater quickly and temporarily (as in - "we'll do this before the owner gets back. He'll never know") ?

My plot problem right now is I need to get two people to a location in a crop-duster.
If you can think of any solutions to this, that'd be great.


If you at all interested in following the saga that has led me to you all, please feel free to read my blog via my website -
www.stefanavalos.com

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help.
 
savalos said:
Hello all,

I am a screenwriter attempting to get some things as correct as possible. I'm hoping that you can:
A. set me straight as needed, and
B. perhaps give me some suggestions.

I hope that you're willing and won't find me an annoyance.

With all of my questions, take into account the story is supposed to be a fun action adventure. Certain leaps of plausibility are okay, so long as I don't completely do
something wrong.

My first question is in regards to crop dusting...

if dusting in a converted Stearman (or any other converted two seater), how possible would it be to 'quickly' pull the hopper or whatever would be occupying the second seat -- to allow a second person to sit in it again?

Is there an 'aerial applicator' that could be converted to a two seater quickly and temporarily (as in - "we'll do this before the owner gets back. He'll never know") ?

My plot problem right now is I need to get two people to a location in a crop-duster.
If you can think of any solutions to this, that'd be great.


If you at all interested in following the saga that has led me to you all, please feel free to read my blog via my website -
www.stefanavalos.com

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help.
Click to expand...

I'm not a crop duster myself. But I grew up around them. I really don't think you could quickly swap the hopper in a Stearman. At one time we had two Stearmans that were both setup to spray. My grandpa converted one of them to a two seater over the winter.

Your plot could still work. I know my dad saying he flew a couple of people in his A-9 Callair by sticking them in the hopper. They also used to stick flagmen about anywhere they could on the airplane to move them around. I recall something about having the flagmen sit with one of his legs in the plane and have them hold onto something. If there was a way to move a person with their airplane they'd do it. Aviation regulations were often completely ignored.

Crop dusting has changed a lot in the last twenty years. The day of the flagman are pretty much gone. There is also a lot less spraying in Stearmans as they really are not that profitable. If my grandpa would have ditched the Stearmans and bought real spray planes I might be doing that today.

There are a couple of cropdusters that I know of that lurk on this forum. They don't really post but it's possible you might get their attention with this. Henning also has some experience.
 
Last edited:
Welcome, Hollywood! :D

I think the cockpit on a Stearman is wide enough that you can squeeze in two people if they're small, ala "Fly Boys" but let somebody with experience verify that.
 
mikea said:
Welcome, Hollywood! :D

I think the cockpit on a Stearman is wide enough that you can squeeze in two people if they're small, ala "Fly Boys" but let somebody with experience verify that.
Click to expand...

It'd probably be pretty hard to fly doing that. I used to ride with my dad and he would put me on his lap and strap me down with him.
 
First, I'm sure we all appreciate you doing this research before hand. You wouldn't want to put the movie out there and then read about how inaccurate it was on POA. :D

I've read that some single seat models are designed to allow a seat to be installed for temporary use where the hopper is. How long it takes to make the switch, I don't know, but it probably takes several hours and an A&P signoff to be legal. Others may know more specifically than I. I had the impression the person occupying that seat would have to scrunch down rather uncomfortably, as there's no actual cockpit and he probably can't even see outside.
 
There are a few AirTractor 502 (503?) floating around out there that are set up a two-seaters for training purposes. Not sure what time frame you are looking at for this screenplay, but the 502/503 series are turbine powered a/c.
 
savalos said:
Hello all,

I am a screenwriter attempting to get some things as correct as possible. I'm hoping that you can:
A. set me straight as needed, and
B. perhaps give me some suggestions.

I hope that you're willing and won't find me an annoyance.

With all of my questions, take into account the story is supposed to be a fun action adventure. Certain leaps of plausibility are okay, so long as I don't completely do
something wrong.

My first question is in regards to crop dusting...

if dusting in a converted Stearman (or any other converted two seater), how possible would it be to 'quickly' pull the hopper or whatever would be occupying the second seat -- to allow a second person to sit in it again?

Is there an 'aerial applicator' that could be converted to a two seater quickly and temporarily (as in - "we'll do this before the owner gets back. He'll never know") ?

My plot problem right now is I need to get two people to a location in a crop-duster.
If you can think of any solutions to this, that'd be great.
Click to expand...

You'll get great technical answers here, and you've gotten some already. Now I'm not a crop duster but I did spend a summer working the back lot at Universal Studios. Let's say I'm hip to just how real unreal things can look and time needs to compress. As they sang in Team America, "Even Rocky had a montage..." :D

If Jesse say's it's possible but would take a few hours, I say about 1% of adult Americans are actual pilots and very few of them know squat about cropdusters. So I see the Star spinin a wrench then yanking out a big box, throwing in a skinny seat and spinning a wrench again and I could care less. I'm waiting to see the footage of the Stearman in flight.

So they didn't get an FAA field approval, IT'S A MOVIE! Let's see the Stearman FLY.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the prompt and great answers.

If I can get away with exactly that - a few wrench spins, some tubing getting disengaged, a tank pulled and a seat thrown in - I'd be incredibly pleased. I don't however, want to assume I can do that. If there's a general consensus from you experts that it 'could' work, let me know.

Thanks again, and prepare thy selves for more questions.
 
Dart said:
If Jesse say's it's possible but would take a few hours, I say about 1% of adult Americans are actual pilots and very few of them know squat about cropdusters. So I see the Star spinin a wrench then yanking out a big box, throwing in a skinny seat and spinning a wrench again and I could care less. I'm waiting to see the footage of the Stearman in flight.
Click to expand...

I remember it being something that a lot of work was put into. But dual controls were installed and things like that. I suspect that you could probably rig something up to quickly put a "seat" in.

Like he said. I could careless how it's done in the movie.
 
I'm qualified to answer your questions.

savalos said:
My first question is in regards to crop dusting...

if dusting in a converted Stearman (or any other converted two seater), how possible would it be to 'quickly' pull the hopper or whatever would be occupying the second seat -- to allow a second person to sit in it again?
Click to expand...

No. Pulling the hopper and fitting a seat is a huge job.

I helped construct a seat that attached to the rim of the hopper. The passenger would ride with his head sticking out in the wind. Only one person tried it out, and never wanted another ride. After his ride, nobody else wanted the same.

I have seen people ride in the hopper itself, but they never want to do it again.

I have carried a passenger in a Cessna 188, a Thrush, an AirTractor, and an AgCat. The Cessna is a really tight fit such that the passenger is jammed in and can't move. The Thrush and AirTractor are quite roomy and carrying a passenger in the cockpit is not a big trick. The AgCat has a couple of ways of fitting a passenger. They're tight inside, but you can take one or both doors off and carry people with their legs and heads inside and their butts hanging in the breeze. Two passengers can sit each on a wing at the strut. Legs dangle over the leading edge of the wing and hold tight to the strut.

savalos said:
Is there an 'aerial applicator' that could be converted to a two seater quickly and temporarily (as in - "we'll do this before the owner gets back. He'll never know") ?
Click to expand...

No way.

savalos said:
My plot problem right now is I need to get two people to a location in a crop-duster.
If you can think of any solutions to this, that'd be great.
Click to expand...

Use an AgCat, as mentioned above.
 
And again, thanks.
I am happy to hear that an agcat could work. It's one I was researching, but I could never got past the 'one operator' part in the specs. It also seems a bit more realistic to use an actual ag plane as the movie, though it has a 'retro' quality (as in biplanes, rockabilly - a James Dean attitude in general), is supposed to be present day - which means an agcat would seem more likely than a converted stearman or the like.
 
How big does your fictional pilot have to be, and how big the other person? Some single seaters are designed with a lot of seat travel for the 6'10" or taller pilot with long legs. So put the passenger in first and have the pilot sit in his lap and fly. Seems like this was done as a way to pick up a downed buddy in WWI and WWII, in a couple of situations that resulted on some heroic rescues.
 
My wife's uncle says he has (several decades ago in Nicaragua) ridden on the wing of a spray plane, apparently laying on his stomach and holding the strut for dear life) acting as a spotter. I guess it's to help the pilot locate the right farm. I've also heard of that barbaric practice in Africa. In case the seat thing doesn't work out . . .
 
savalos said:
Hello all,

I am a screenwriter attempting to get some things as correct as possible. I'm hoping that you can:
A. set me straight as needed, and
B. perhaps give me some suggestions.

I hope that you're willing and won't find me an annoyance.

With all of my questions, take into account the story is supposed to be a fun action adventure. Certain leaps of plausibility are okay, so long as I don't completely do
something wrong.

My first question is in regards to crop dusting...

if dusting in a converted Stearman (or any other converted two seater), how possible would it be to 'quickly' pull the hopper or whatever would be occupying the second seat -- to allow a second person to sit in it again?

Is there an 'aerial applicator' that could be converted to a two seater quickly and temporarily (as in - "we'll do this before the owner gets back. He'll never know") ?

My plot problem right now is I need to get two people to a location in a crop-duster.
If you can think of any solutions to this, that'd be great.


If you at all interested in following the saga that has led me to you all, please feel free to read my blog via my website -
www.stefanavalos.com

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help.
Click to expand...
Pull the hopper and install the seat, give a ride and put the hopper back before the boss gets back? If the boss is on a 4 week sex junket to Thailand maybe. No, what you would do is rinse the hopper real well and stick your passengers in there. There's a couple 503 & 802 Air Tractors with two pilot seats, and some Dromaders and 802s have a squeeze seat behind the pilot, but typically, if it's a guy, they go in the hopper, if it's a girl, they go on my lap. For the most part though, an ag plane is a single person aircraft since either of the afforementioned would be a violation event.
 
How about helicopter dusters? I've seen them on TV (old Wings channel) where they described spraying pine trees. I never saw if the other seat on the helicopter was replaced with a hopper- I did wonder if it would have been more cost effective to use a fixed wing plane. They trucked the spray into a clearing. It was a show about women pilots.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
How about helicopter dusters? I've seen them on TV (old Wings channel) where they described spraying pine trees. I never saw if the other seat on the helicopter was replaced with a hopper- I did wonder if it would have been more cost effective to use a fixed wing plane. They trucked the spray into a clearing. It was a show about women pilots.
Click to expand...

I think the reason the helo's are used for forest spraying is the fact that they can get in and out of smaller areas than a plane. You can probably cover more area with a plane (spray faster, longer booms, etc.) but if you have to clear out several thousand square feet of forest for a plane vs. a few hundred square feet for a helo, the helo is a better choice.
 
We used a helo to apply herbicide before we "re-forested" our 30 acres. The spray rig is completely external to the airframe, including the tank. The same arrangement is used for tree fertilizing. The helo actually lands on top of the tanker truck for refills.

03-Helicopter-BatchTruck-B.jpg



The larger forest companies here hire fixed wing applicators to apply dry fertilizer and often rent an open pasture nearby to operate out of.



Cap'n Jack said:
How about helicopter dusters? I've seen them on TV (old Wings channel) where they described spraying pine trees. I never saw if the other seat on the helicopter was replaced with a hopper- I did wonder if it would have been more cost effective to use a fixed wing plane. They trucked the spray into a clearing. It was a show about women pilots.
Click to expand...
 
NC Pilot said:
Also, check out chapter 46 regarding the dump system.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is the case for all Stearmans but I know ours did not have a dump. Which was one of the reasons it was a crappy crop duster. It was underpowered and consumed gas and oil like no other. It was not very crash worthy but luckily that never happened. I know my dad said when he was loaded up if the engine would have quit you would be dead as it was just a brick and you had no way to dump the spray.
 
Steve said:
We used a helo to apply herbicide before we "re-forested" our 30 acres. The spray rig is completely external to the airframe, including the tank. The same arrangement is used for tree fertilizing. The helo actually lands on top of the tanker truck for refills.

<SNIP>


The larger forest companies here hire fixed wing applicators to apply dry fertilizer and often rent an open pasture nearby to operate out of.
Click to expand...

So it sounds like a helo crop duster (excuse me- aerial applicator) could be used to get two people to a location without a lot of work or the owner knowing. Problem solved!:yes:
 
:) - kind of.
She doesn't end up in the biplane till the very end - a lot of (airplane) things happen before, for which I will be asking more questions

Thanks for the great words of advice thus far.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top