Question regarding ASRS

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ki4lzk

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Joshua Jones
Today I was in a 172 with my instructor on downwind for landing. We had been hearing reports of traffic in the area so we tried to spot it. My instructor said 'I hear them talking but I can't seeeee........' About that time he took the controls and we started an immediate 360. The bonanza came into the traffic pattern for the downwind vs the base like the tower told him to and was descending on top of us. We probably had 100ft vertical separation and 5-600ft horizontally.

Is this something that should be reported using the NASA ASRS? If so, is it appropriate for me to do so? As a side note, the controller was not happy with the Bonanza pilot at all!
 
If you think there's a lesson to be learned about system safety from that event, yes -- write it up and send it in. That Bonanza pilot might also want to do so, since an angry controller may file a Pilot Deviation Report, and if the Bonanza pilot has filed an ASRS report, that may save him/her from a sanction by the FAA.
 
So then is the ASRS more used for CYA? There was something a little unnerving about seeing a plane so clearly ~ 800ft agl. In some ways it was a good learning experience. I have seen numerous accident reports with a similar type situation I.e,low wing is at a higher alt and a high wing is lower.
 
MachFly said:
I personally wouldn't bother. FAA is obviously not going to come after you because that guy entered the pattern in a wrong way. Also if you were to violate something (which you did not) it's still okay for you because the instructor was the PIC.
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You're missing the point of the ASRS, which is to collect, analyze, and respond to voluntarily submitted aviation safety incident reports in order to lessen the likelihood of aviation accidents.

ASRS data are used to:
  • Identify deficiencies and discrepancies in the National Aviation System (NAS) so that these can be remedied by appropriate authorities.
  • Support policy formulation and planning for, and improvements to, the NAS.
  • Strengthen the foundation of aviation human factors safety research. This is particularly important since it is generally conceded that over two-thirds of all aviation accidents and incidents have their roots in human performance errors.
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The waiver of sanction (not really "immunity") provision is merely an adjunct to encourage participation. So please file an ASRS report any time you think you have something useful to contribute, not just when you think you're about to be violated by the FSDO.
 
MachFly said:
I personally wouldn't bother. FAA is obviously not going to come after you because that guy entered the pattern in a wrong way. Also if you were to violate something (which you did not) it's still okay for you because the instructor was the PIC.
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Sigh. Really???
 
Ron Levy said:
You're missing the point of the ASRS, which is to collect, analyze, and respond to voluntarily submitted aviation safety incident reports in order to lessen the likelihood of aviation accidents.

The waiver of sanction (not really "immunity") provision is merely an adjunct to encourage participation. So please file an ASRS report any time you think you have something useful to contribute, not just when you think you're about to be violated by the FSDO.
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Good to know
 
File the report. Lots of reasons to do so come to mind.

  • It is part of your learning experience to know how to file an ASRS report and the consequences of filing one.
  • It helps you to evaluate and solidify what you and your instructor did and did not do. It helps you to draw conclusions on what you might have done differently that would have helped the situation.
  • It allows NASA to collect information about this incident and accumulate data and add it to their process of making the system safer.
  • If there is ever any question about your compliance, you have the waiver.
  • It is fun to see the system in action.
 
MachFly said:
I personally wouldn't bother. FAA is obviously not going to come after you because that guy entered the pattern in a wrong way. Also if you were to violate something (which you did not) it's still okay for you because the instructor was the PIC.
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That's not the only reason the ASRS program is there...It sounds to me like a hazard to safety took place, so I'd go ahead and report it.
 
I talked with one of the pilots flying the plane when this occurred. He was receiving flight instruction at the time for his Commercial Rating. The instructor was at the controls at the time of the incident. I am going to submit the report just to see how the system works.

It troubles me even more to find out that an instructor was the one flying. It makes me doubt the quality of instruction he provides. I know stuff happens to everyone, but this incident wouldn't have occurred if they would have been paying attention.

As I stated previously, I have learned a few good lessons from this. The most important is how critical looking for traffic is. Next would be that you can't expect someone to do what they are told. Finally, That staying calm in a situation is the most effective.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and opinions..
 
ki4lzk said:
...., I have learned a few good lessons from this. The most important is how critical looking for traffic is. Next would be that you can't expect someone to do what they are told. Finally, That staying calm in a situation is the most effective.
..
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Good sign of a potentially great pilot... Keep thinking that way sir..:yes::thumbsup:
 
Ron Levy said:
I think I might say "Unfortunately, yes.".
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Emphatically, you are correct, and I might add, again! I was typing way too fast. Sorry.

And thanks to Ron, not only for this correction, but for all his input to POA and other forums. Many here may think Ron is too hard-over on the rules, but damn! we need someone here like that!

-Skip
 
ki4lzk said:
It troubles me even more to find out that an instructor was the one flying. It makes me doubt the quality of instruction he provides. I know stuff happens to everyone, but this incident wouldn't have occurred if they would have been paying attention.
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You can't expect every instructor to be a good pilot, if he's got a CFI rating it only means that he is or was once capable of meeting all the minimum requirements for passing his checkride. As a matter of fact I think that if I'd make a list of people who I've flown with before that I would not want to fly with again, most of them would be CFIs.

No offense to any instructors here.
 
MachFly said:
I personally wouldn't bother. FAA is obviously not going to come after you because that guy entered the pattern in a wrong way. Also if you were to violate something (which you did not) it's still okay for you because the instructor was the PIC.
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No one has mentioned the fact that ASRS reports have all identification stripped from them, so there is no way for NASA (FAA does not see ASRS reports) to identify the pilot who submitted the report.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
No one has mentioned the fact that ASRS reports have all identification stripped from them, so there is no way for NASA (FAA does not see ASRS reports) to identify the pilot who submitted the report.

Bob Gardner
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Your right, I should just delete that post.
 
I was in a similar situation with another aircraft lined-up with the wrong runway (my runway) and the controller repeatedly yelling at him. I filed an ASRS report and suggested that the controller should've issued me an avoidance vector instead of getting stuck with tunnel vision focusing on a noncompliant pilot.
 
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