Question regarding age of 172 and Hobbs meter

hyphen81

Pre-takeoff checklist
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hyphen81
I just started back to flight training and the 70's era 172 I'm flying looks pretty ragged. I know that doesn't mean it's in poor shape mechanically, but it made me ask about the plane. My CFI said it gets 100 hr inspections, but that it has almost 10,000 hours on it. When we got in, the Hobbs meter said 6170. Is the Hobbs meter recording hours on the engine? What is the difference between the Hobbs meter and the "almost 10,000 hours" my CFI mentioned?

I read online somewhere that the typical lifespan of a 172 is around 10,000 hours. Is that true? Obviously there are a lot of factors that play into that, but generally speaking?


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The Hobbs may of been put in later.

I've seen 172s for sale with 10,000+ hours on the airframe. I'd never buy one, but they exist.
 
Should I be concerned about doing my training in it?


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Should I be concerned about doing my training in it?


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Jon,

I just started training again after 35 years, and one of the things that bother me the most was some schools I looked at were still flying early '70's C152's and C172's...the same plane I flew back in 1976!!!!

I actually fly a 2006 Alarus CH2000 and although anything can happen at any time, I feel better flying a newer airplane.

Frank
 
I occasionally fly a C172RG with 16,000 on the hobbs. Sure, the original interior is in rough shape, but I've observed airframe inspections with the A&P and I have no concerns about it.
 
Look in the airframe log to find the age of the plane, Hobbs meters may have been replaced or added later in life, there will be a log entry that clarifies this.
 
Go to the logs for true hours. on the aircraft. There are 172 s approaching 12000 hrs.
 
How would I go about getting the airframe log?


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How would I go about getting the airframe log?


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Ask at the counter you rent from, or whomever is in charge of maintenance if you can get that far. They should be able to produce the logs for inspection to a renter. Might as well take the opportunity to have them and the CFI run you through the mandatory inspections you are supposed to check to determine airworthiness.
 
I'll check with my CFI...he's also the airport manager and the owner of the plane. I mentioned the maintenance logs briefly while we were doing the preflight inspection, but he seemed to kind of brush it off as not a big deal...that's when he mentioned the 100 hr inspections. I guess I need to press him on it, but I was struggling with being curious but not wanting to be pushy. My life is valuable enough to warrant being a little pushy though I suppose.


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I say he acted like it wasn't a big deal, that's not entirely accurate, but he kind of just didn't give it much of a thought I guess...i don't want to make it sound like he was dismissive regarding safety, that wasn't the case.


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Go to the logs for true hours. on the aircraft. There are 172 s approaching 12000 hrs.

There are 172s well past 20,000 hours.

http://www.pprune.org/caribbean-latin-america/306333-30-000-hour-cessna-172-a.html

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/20-000-hour-cessna-172.117688/

It comes down to whether the owner pays for good maintenance. There are weak spots in those airplanes that need watching and/or upgrading. I haven't yet heard of high-time 172s coming apart in flight.

Dan
 
I've flown a C172P with 18500hrs and very bad maintenance. They are strong birds.
 
Also keep in mind that he's not just renting you the airplane, he's strapping himself in it and handing the controls to an inexperienced pilot.

Then again, he might have a death wish, so it doesn't hurt to check :D
 
10,000 hours without falling out of the sky so far - what are the odds that it will happen in the next 50?
 
I say he acted like it wasn't a big deal, that's not entirely accurate, but he kind of just didn't give it much of a thought I guess...i don't want to make it sound like he was dismissive regarding safety, that wasn't the case.


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It's because it isn't a safety concern, there s no numerical life limit to the airframe, it's the current inspection that counts, and that plane gets what should be a pretty thorough inspection every 100hrs.

It is something you should be able to settle in your mind though. Just ask come next ground session that you are really curious bout the log books, how they are kept, and what the inspection entries you are supposed to be aware of look like. Ask for some time to sit down and read through it and learn the language.
 
Hours are just one factor. Every 100 hours the airplane is inspected for any deficiencies, so anything that could be a problem should be identified before it does become a problem. Now if the plane is given a half-@ssed inspection? Well that's a problem whether the plane has 10,000 hours or 100 hours. So it really comes down to who is doing the work more so than how many hours it has.

Also, while the airframe may be 10,000 hours and 40 years old, the engine is significantly younger than that. Expect an engine that was overhauled a couple thousand hours ago or less.
 
Also most people do NOT use the Hobbs on a 172 for time in service. It's completely spurious and meaningless for other than rental billing purposes.

My plane has no recording tach but the hobbs is connected to the gear. However it started at zero at somewhere around 5400 hours TIS on the airframe (it does correspond to the engine however).
 
My CFI said it gets 100 hr inspections, but that it has almost 10,000 hours on it. When we got in, the Hobbs meter said 6170. Is the Hobbs meter recording hours on the engine? What is the difference between the Hobbs meter and the "almost 10,000 hours" my CFI mentioned?
A Hobbs meter is essentially an electric clock that runs whenever power is applied to it at the rate of one hour per hour. Its primary application is billing for use of the airplane at an hourly rate. Usually, it is powered directly through the electrical master switch, although many flight schools/FBO's wire it through an oil pressure sensing switch so the renter cannot "beat the clock" for billing by turning off the master in flight.

A recording tachometer is essentially an odometer operated by engine revolutions (rather than wheel revolutions as on your car). It is geared to show one hour of time rolling over after some particular number of engine revolutions, typically around 2400-2500. Thus, it rolls over about one hour for every hour in cruise flight, but slower during approach and pattern work, and very much slower when idling on the ground. Its primary designed function is measure engine wear for maintenance purposes, but it is usually used also for all other aircraft wear maintenance purposes (such as 100-hour inspections, wear-based Airworthiness Directives, component overhauls, etc).

In normal aircraft use, it is typical to see the tach time about 80-85% of Hobbs time on any given flight, with the percentage higher when flights involve long trips at high cruise, and lower when there's a lot of primary training at lower power settings (traffic pattern flying, slow flight, etc).

In either case, the device may be replaced during the life of the aircraft. In some cases, the new device is rolled forward to match the reading of the removed unit, but in others it is just installed at zero and the aircraft logbooks are used to track how much time it had at device installation for future reference of total time. Thus, it is entirely possible for an aircraft with more than 10,000 hours total airframe time to have a Hobbs meter installed long after the aircraft was built reading 6171 hours.

I read online somewhere that the typical lifespan of a 172 is around 10,000 hours. Is that true? Obviously there are a lot of factors that play into that, but generally speaking?
There are plenty of 172's out there in the training fleet with considerably more than 10,000 hours that are still going strong. OTOH, there are plenty of abused/neglected 172's which are basket cases after half that. It's just not possible to give any specific number as being the "typical lifespan" of a 172 without knowing more about its use and care.
 
I'll check with my CFI...he's also the airport manager and the owner of the plane. I mentioned the maintenance logs briefly while we were doing the preflight inspection, but he seemed to kind of brush it off as not a big deal...that's when he mentioned the 100 hr inspections. I guess I need to press him on it, but I was struggling with being curious but not wanting to be pushy. My life is valuable enough to warrant being a little pushy though I suppose.
Yes, you do need to get pushier about aircraft maintenance records, but more because you are required to know, understand, and be able to explain them on your practical test than any other reason at this point. Later, if you choose to buy a plane, your knowledge and understanding of aircraft maintenance records will be critical to evaluating aircraft for purchase.
 
This is dumb. You need to see the logs because you have the right to.

But hours don't mean anything to determine the safety of the plane.
 
This is dumb. You need to see the logs because you have the right to.
Until the instructor teaches the OP what them mean and what they should say, learning how to read them is more important than seeing the ones on the particular aircraft being flown. This is an issue too often glossed over in primary training.
 
I'll check with my CFI...he's also the airport manager and the owner of the plane. I mentioned the maintenance logs briefly while we were doing the preflight inspection, but he seemed to kind of brush it off as not a big deal...that's when he mentioned the 100 hr inspections. I guess I need to press him on it, but I was struggling with being curious but not wanting to be pushy. My life is valuable enough to warrant being a little pushy though I suppose.


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You will need the logs at checkride time.

Bob Gardner
 
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