Question about Phoenix-ish airspace

[ircphoenix]

I'm planning a possible flight out to Deer Valley in November, and I notice on the Phoenix TAC chart that there's a Special Air Traffic Rules area near Luke AFB. According to the chart and the inset, the area immediately over Luke AFB is SFC to 3999 as part of the SATR, including the little box to the northeast. But when I plug it in to AOPA flight planner it shows some sort of red box from the surface to 6999 around Luke AFB. What am I missing here?

 

[Fearless Tower]

First off - go by the TAC. It shouldn't really matter much though. There are a bunch of different sections of the area with slightly different altitudes. The Class D surface area for Luke goes up to 4000' which is also the floor of the PHX Class B there - Big thing is to just make sure you are at least on Flight Following if not IFR going through that area. Luke approach is usually pretty accomodating. That isn't an area I would want to try and dodge airspace to avoid talking.

 

[dans2992]

I wish they would have just called it "Class C" instead of making up some new designation.

 

[ircphoenix]

First off - go by the TAC. It shouldn't really matter much though. There are a bunch of different sections of the area with slightly different altitudes. The Class D surface area for Luke goes up to 4000' which is also the floor of the PHX Class B there - Big thing is to just make sure you are at least on Flight Following if not IFR going through that area. Luke approach is usually pretty accomodating. That isn't an area I would want to try and dodge airspace to avoid talking.

Yeah. I *always* try to pick up flight following. I like having someone warn me if I'm about to do something stupid.

 

[CC268]

I am familiar with flying through the Luke SATR as I typically fly through it going over to Wickenburg (or anywhere west of Deer Valley for that matter). I just call up Luke App., tell them where I am and where I am going and they usually just give you a squawk code. Kind of like Flight Following really.

 

[ircphoenix]

And then when I leave, I may be going south to Chandler. Seems like just getting flight following from the field and doing the east/west transition is a non-event?

 

[Fearless Tower]

And then when I leave, I may be going south to Chandler. Seems like just getting flight following from the field and doing the east/west transition is a non-event?

Depends on time of day/how busy TRACON is. It has supposedly gotten better since the Superstitions crash, but there have been times when Phoenix Approach has refused to allow VFR aircraft through the Bravo.

It doesn't hurt to ask, just be prepared to go around the east side if they say no.

 

[ircphoenix]

Depends on time of day/how busy TRACON is. It has supposedly gotten better since the Superstitions crash, but there have been times when Phoenix Approach has refused to allow VFR aircraft through the Bravo.

It doesn't hurt to ask, just be prepared to go around the east side if they say no.

That's right. I forgot that Phoenix has been known for being hostile to VFR traffic passing through.

I can't imagine LAX being jerks with how many times I've had to cruise through there... and that's the opportunity for HHR, LAX, AND SMO to all be meanie heads, but they're all super cool.

 

[James331]

Do you speak Chinesenglish?

Holy chit balls, it's thick over there with the foreign zero to hero programs.

 

[NJP_MAN]

And then when I leave, I may be going south to Chandler. Seems like just getting flight following from the field and doing the east/west transition is a non-event?

It's easy. They never deny it now. Just climb out of dvt and call approach.

 

[Fearless Tower]

That's right. I forgot that Phoenix has been known for being hostile to VFR traffic passing through.

I can't imagine LAX being jerks with how many times I've had to cruise through there... and that's the opportunity for HHR, LAX, AND SMO to all be meanie heads, but they're all super cool.

Yes, SoCal Approach is one of the most accommodating big TRACONs. Phoenix not as much, but it does seem to be getting better.

 

[ircphoenix]

Do you speak Chinesenglish?

Holy chit balls, it's thick over there with the foreign zero to hero programs.

Listening to the helo pilots at night doing touch and goes at SBD is INSANE. You're left wondering who was that calling, where were they at, and where are they going.

 

[James331]

Listening to the helo pilots at night doing touch and goes at SBD is INSANE. You're left wondering who was that calling, where were they at, and where are they going.

Yes, SoCal Approach is one of the most accommodating big TRACONs. Phoenix not as much, but it does seem to be getting better.

They're good, for sure, but I'd still have to give it to Boston for the most accommodating

 

[Timbeck2]

Yeah those Mesquite call signs are a huge PITA for everyone. I would like to see the minimum English test those guys have to pass before they're turned loose on the radio. They take up so much of the controllers' time with all the repeats that nobody else can get a word in edgewise.

 

[Pilawt]

Just treat the SFRA like a Class C. With F-16s and F-35s zipping into Luke from the southwest, and heavy student traffic at KGYR, the SFRA is good idea. The USAF controllers at Luke are very accommodating.

Luke tower is closed weekends and holidays, and the SFRA is inactive when the tower is closed. KGYR ATIS broadcasts an advisory when the SFRA is in effect.

 

[dans2992]

Except some weekends, when they decide to be open, which is sort of annoying.

 

[ircphoenix]

I'll be on flight following (if possible) and planning on being at 7500 or 5500, so I'll be above it and/or talking to someone regardless. Just was wondering why some of it shows up to 6999 in AOPA flight planner when the TAC shows surface to 3999.

 

[Pilawt]

Just was wondering why some of it shows up to 6999 in AOPA flight planner when the TAC shows surface to 3999.

It's hard to see on the chart, but the SFRA west of KGYR is divided into two sectors. Under the PHX Class B shelf, the SFRA has a floor of 2,100' and only goes up to 3,999'. But west of the PXR 25 NM arc the SFRA starts at 3,000' and goes up to 6,999'.

 

[ircphoenix]

It's hard to see on the chart, but the SFRA west of KGYR is divided into two sectors. Under the PHX Class B shelf, the SFRA has a floor of 2,100' and only goes up to 3,999'. But west of the PXR 25 NM arc the SFRA starts at 3,000' and goes up to 6,999'.

Yeah. I definitely see that. I'm thinking AOPA is wrong. Because the tac and inset don't show the box outside of the delta being up to 6,999. I see the SW section goes up to 6,999 but the other sections on AOPA show it going up to 6999 for the Luke AFB box and the box NE of there.

 

[mtuomi]

I did this a few weeks ago. First flew up from TUS, did the PHX Bravo West route (easy as 123). Departing DVT towards BLH Luke told me to sod off, so I just went around the area.
Took a while, but I kept myself amused by listening to DVT tower. Man those people have patience of a cow.
"Awwwww herrroooooww.. this isss..... novembaaaaww 12345, wandinggg wiiiiid zxybzls"

 

[Ravioli]

My plane was based at Glendale when I bought it, so I've flown out of there 5 times (2 pre-purchase, 2 transition training, 1 departing for TX)

Similarly, I fly out of KFTW often which is next to the Ft Worth NAS.

The coordination and courtesy seemed the same out there. I think the government controllers like talking to us since it's something to do on an otherwise boring day on the tubes.

 

[Pilawt]

Yeah. I definitely see that. I'm thinking AOPA is wrong. Because the tac and inset don't show the box outside of the delta being up to 6,999. I see the SW section goes up to 6,999 but the other sections on AOPA show it going up to 6999 for the Luke AFB box and the box NE of there.

The AOPA image shows the boundary of the lower SFRA sector (where PERKY is), but the "3999/2100" label is missing. Does it show up if you zoom in closer?

 

[ircphoenix]

The AOPA image shows the boundary of the lower SFRA sector (where PERKY is), but the "3999/2100" label is missing. Does it show up if you zoom in closer?

When you zoom in it shows "6999/2100" in the PERKY box. Which is also contrary to the tac charts.

 

[CC268]

And then when I leave, I may be going south to Chandler. Seems like just getting flight following from the field and doing the east/west transition is a non-event?

I SO FAR haven't had any issues getting the bravo transition.

 

[CC268]

I did this a few weeks ago. First flew up from TUS, did the PHX Bravo West route (easy as 123). Departing DVT towards BLH Luke told me to sod off, so I just went around the area.
Took a while, but I kept myself amused by listening to DVT tower. Man those people have patience of a cow.
"Awwwww herrroooooww.. this isss..... novembaaaaww 12345, wandinggg wiiiiid zxybzls"

hahahaha

 

[pmanton]

I did this a few weeks ago. First flew up from TUS, did the PHX Bravo West route (easy as 123). Departing DVT towards BLH Luke told me to sod off, so I just went around the area.

Are you saying Luke refused you entry into their special flight rules airspace? That sucks

 

[mtuomi]

Are you saying Luke refused you entry into their special flight rules airspace? That sucks

Yep, "remain clear of" etc.