Question about GTSIO-520 hours/elapsed time

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by 3393RP, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    I'm perusing Controller listing for 421Cs, and it's apparent many of these aircraft have not been flown in the previous five or even ten years.

    This example has factory new engines, installed in 2010 and 2011. One engine has 99 hours, the other just 23. It has great avionics, the props have just 78 hours.

    The props were done in July 2010, so this aircraft has been flown just 78 hours in the previous four years.

    Comments, please, on what effects this lack of usage will have on these GTSIO engines. I'm hoping N747JB will weigh in, as I know he recently sold a very nice 421.

    http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-421C/1976-CESSNA-421C/1323197.htm

    The aircraft is listed for $200K less than many 421s that have much more engine time and perhaps one 430W. It's less than some with just a couple hundred hours left before TBO.

    I'm surprised at the number of 421s that don't even have a panel mounted GPS, some are advertised noting a Loran C installation and other antiquated avionics. However, by looking at clues in the listing I can see some of them haven't been flown for years.
     
  2. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Nice, are you a Canadian operator or US? There's a bit of import inconvenience and expense here if you are US. If it's stored in a hangar, especially a climate controlled one, there shouldn't be a lot of issue with it especially stored in Edmonton, it's quite dry there. The main issue with these particular engines will potentially be dried out nose seals on the drive and dried out seals in the FI system.

    The one biggie issue that I would research though is if this is an Owner Maintenance plane. I am not familiar enough with the Canadian system to know if it can be done with this plane or not, but I would bet that if it is possible and done, it would make the conformity inspection an expensive (impossible?:dunno:) process if importing to the US.
     
  3. Dr. O

    Dr. O Pattern Altitude

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    The most expensive thing in aviation is the pursuit of saving a buck.
     
  4. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No lie there, although when a deal falls in your lap, it's foolish to pass it up.
     
  5. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Oh, I noticed a reason it's cheaper than some Cs, it's an older one with straight legs. It's the trailing link gear that usually comes with the higher price tag. Isn't 1976 the first year for the C?
     
  6. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    This is a helpful comment. :rolleyes:
     
  7. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    I'm not familiar with the importation issues. I guess that's something else that will need to be researched.
     
  8. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Yes, it takes a conformity inspection by a DAR. The FSDO would have the authority as well, but I don't know if they have the manpower. It's not a huge issue typically if the plane has been maintained in accordance with Cessna's instructions. Think of it like an annual on steroids with a deeper look into part numbers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  9. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller Final Approach

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    DER? -Skip
     
  10. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Nope, DAR, Designated Airworthiness Representative. A DER is a Designated Engineering Representative. A DAR is the DPE level of the A&P, IA, DAR lineage as the DPE would be in the CPL, CFI, DPE lineage.

    DAR is a paper chase and inspection job to make sure everything meets approved data. DER is an engineering job that produces approved data.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  11. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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    76 is the first year of the C model, no big changes until 1980, trailing link gear and glass windshield. The factory remans are a big plus to me vs field overhauls or cheap shops. There are a couple good shops that build GTSIO engines, and several that build cheap ones! :eek:
    It's hard to tell about the paint in those pictures, but the interior looks OK, dated, but serviceable. The panel is nice, I doubt you'll see many 421's with better panels and engine times under $400K. The G600 alone is probably $35K installed, the 750 is $15-17K, plus the Garmin radar etc, that's $75K in avionics alone. Of course you aren't just buying the panel, but if it's a solid airplane it sounds like it's priced fairly. :D
     
  12. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Higher time airframe, straight legs, and been sitting are the big reasons for the lower price in my mind.

    421s can be a deal, but they are expensive airplanes no matter what. The GTSIOs are good engines (when properly built), but they do have their issues. 421s have a lot of systems that can be expensive - pressurization (windows), turbochargers (exhaust ADs, turbo/wastegate/controllers)... they aren't cheap.

    If you're seriously thinking about one, the best money you can spend is to join the Twin Cessna Flyer (www.twincessna.org). There are also some great Twin Cessna specific shops out there who you'd want to help you with pre-buys or the like.

    I would also look hard at a B model. The Cs are a bit faster and have a simplified fuel system, but they come at a heafty price premium. The trailing link 421Cs are especially expensive. Plus, tip tanks just look cool. :)