PTW, our worst airport experience ever, bar none

[poadeleted3]

As I posted the other day, I've been trying to decide whether to rent an older 172 from PTW, or rent newer Diamonds and Skyhawks from Wings. We've been renting planes from 3 airports, and have decided we need to kinda pick one and stick with it. We're spending too much money on checkouts LOL. I love the Tiger's from Hortman Aviation at PNE, and the FBO is awesome, but it's just too much of a drive. It took us an hour and a half to get home last Monday. I had an interview for a part time line service job at PTW the other day that went really well, and I decided to give their planes a second look while I was there. I'm not a total stranger to the place, since that's where I've usually been buying my charts and AF/Ds. Cathy has veto authority over what planes we fly, so today I took her out to see the planes. There was no one in the office, not an unusual situation. Everybody was up flying. They don't have signs up on the hangar door leading to the flightline prohibiting entry, and they've never had an issue with me going out to see the planes before. Today, we went out to see the Skyhawk, and Cathy had just finished giving the plane her OK when here comes a hero going by the name of Eric. First words out of his mouth are "This isn't a sight seeing airport, get out." Oh... I said "We're thinking about renting these planes, and would like to check them out." I fully expected him to render a little customer service, as other airports have, but he just repeated "this isn't a sight seeing airport, get out" and came at me and Cathy like he was going to attack us. Scared Cathy to death. We left, with him following behind flapping his gums. I did a decent job keeping my mouth shut until just before we were off the flight line, when I told him I'd be letting his bosses know why we were going to be spending our $1,000 a month elsewhere. His response was "My name's Eric, get it right." Well, I knew that.. it was on his shirt! Sean asked me why he was acting that way, and the only thing I could tell Sean was that some people are just ****oles.

We stopped in at Limerick Flight Center and left a note explaining what had happened, and laid out for them exactly how much money we spend flying monthly, told them they wouldn't be getting any of that, or the money I'll be spending this fall on my isntrument ticket, and left. The manager of the flight school called me later and left a message, explaining that his school was seperate from the airport management, and apologizing for the conduct we were subjected to. Too late, I was out at Wings making my reservations. I do feel sorry for him, but I'll not be spending another cent at that airport, nor will I ever set foot on it again. His business is operating on a property that makes it clear they don't welcome visitors or pilots. Airport security is one thing, but it doesn't require conduct like me, my wife, and son were subjected to, nor will I pay to support such an airport. There are a ton of airports in this area competing for business, and mine walked away forever, along with the recommendations I'll give other pilots or want to be pilots to steer clear of PTW.

I guess the search for a part time job goes on LOL.

 

[Brian Austin]

I always hate hearing about stuff like this. One guy just gives you a bad taste for the whole area. I've had similar experiences but not at airports.

What strikes me as odd is the attitude. "Not a sightseeing airport"? Sheesh. The more people that use it, the more likely he is to keep his job (which he apparently doesn't like). All of the airports I've visited around PHX are very courteous and friendly (with the exception of one particular controller at Scottsdale that can't seem to handle the stress). They WANT you there, flying, shopping in their store, eating in their restaurant, etc.. Even the city employees who run most of them are friendly and helpful. My wife and I walk through the covered tiedowns regularly at Deer Valley and have been stopped by security once....mainly to chat (I'm sure he was checking us out, too, but at least had the professionalism to make it friendly and not SEEM like he was checking it out).

Sad.

 

[bbchien]

Joe, the best approach is to "badge". Respond that you ARE A PILOT and show your certificate. In the same sentence inquire if he is the base operator. Thus you have business on the ramp. It the guy is still an a__hole, that's his problem not yours.

Some years ago I stopped in Sheridan WY. The FBO was closed. My two toddler kids were along; the gate was locked, we could get out. I put a piece of note paper in the lock (combo wasn't posted anywhere) and along comes Mr. Authority and rips it out. Now we're locked out from our baggage. The answer: climb over an 8 foot barbed wire topped fence.

Left a NASTY note at the FBO. Called the Sheriff and told him the predicament. Wrote a letter to the newpaper that I was never coming to spend any of my 20K/year at their place. It was published. The FBO cared. The Sheriff didn't.

Tough noogies.

 

[Whirlwind]

Joe, I'm very sorry to hear about that terrible event. People like that really hurt the aviation business, but sadly there are angry people everywhere who do boneheaded things like Eric did.

 

[poadeleted3]

I always hate hearing about stuff like this. One guy just gives you a bad taste for the whole area. I've had similar experiences but not at airports.

I've NEVER been treated like that at an airport. I can only wonder how many folks thinking about getting a license have gone there and gotten chased off like that. Think GA is gaining friends from a supposedly GA airport with that attitude toward visitors? It would have been one thing to hear "We'd rather not have folks we don't know out here unescorted." Better would have been to do what I would have done... hang out and talk about the planes. That way they get any questions they may have answered, and they may never even know they are being escorted.

The whole experience was a bummer... Cathy was scared for a while afterwards, and she's never been really scared at an airport before

 

[HuskerMedic]

Joe, weren't you in law enforcement once, or am I thinking of someone else? My guess would be this person was probably given some spiel about watching out for the airport and suddenly thought he had some sort of special power or authority. And if you've ever been around a bad cop before, you know what a little authority does to a small mind.

 

[poadeleted3]

Joe, weren't you in law enforcement once, or am I thinking of someone else? My guess would be this person was probably given some spiel about watching out for the airport and suddenly thought he had some sort of special power or authority. And if you've ever been around a bad cop before, you know what a little authority does to a small mind.

I was a cop once upon a time. I really don't know what this guy was thinking.

 

[tom clark]

Man I hate it when one idiot ruins my day. I don't blame you at all Joe. If they want to keep eric and let him chase off the customers, well that's the business decission they're going with. I'd tell them "when eric goes, give me a call and maybe we'll do some business". Noway you had a unique experience. The only question is, how much business shall eric chase off before they can his azzzz. tc

 

[AdamZ]

Joe: Your expierence really blows but let me offer a second thought: There are some good folk at PTW. The owner of the Flight School that called you back showed that. He was responsive to your complaint what more can you ask.

Keep in mind PTW has been the subject of a lot of media attention due to that putz Salamone the Drunk pilot ( rememer him) Local media also tried to test airport security after that.
As for Eric. Make it a point to call his boss the Airport mgt. I assume if you get the partime line position thats who you will be working for. Perhaps it will get you a hand up on getting the job. You can explain that you know how customers should be treated ( maybe hes looking for a reason to dump "Eric")
If you get no satisfaction post on Airnav. Tell the manager you wanted to talk to him first before posting on Airnav. If he addresses your problem no need to post.
finally talk with Len he is based at PTW I'm sure he can give you more insight that I.

Well I know wings will be happy to have you business. I will tell you they have some of the most helpful line folks around.

 

[Bones]

i would like to take this moment to differentiate myself from this other "Eric"...we're not all bad! ahah

 

[Gary]

Bummer, poor customer relations at it's best. About ten years ago, when I got back into flying, I took my "refresher" lessons there, even then, there seemed to be some friction between the flight school and the line crew. Maybe its worse due to the Salamone incident. Sounds like Wings will be the place, it is a long ride to North Philly, not very convenient.Gary

 

[poadeleted3]

Bummer, poor customer relations at it's best. About ten years ago, when I got back into flying, I took my "refresher" lessons there, even then, there seemed to be some friction between the flight school and the line crew. Maybe its worse due to the Salamone incident. Sounds like Wings will be the place, it is a long ride to North Philly, not very convenient.Gary

Yeah, Hortman and NE Philly is a heck of a drive from Royersford, so it's Wings. Both are awesome FBOs. No way I could just choose one if they were both close.

Isn't Quakertown tied in with Montgomery County Aviation? I know they were awfully nice there when we went up to look at a Cherokee 140 a while back.

 

[Gary]

Isn't Quakertown tied in with Montgomery County Aviation? I know they were awfully nice there when we went up to look at a Cherokee 140 a while back.

Joe

They used to be. We have no flight school or rental at the moment . It's a long story as to what happened. It is real quiet up there without the flight school traffic. There is a possibility that a new one will emerge, if so I'll drop you a line.

I can understand your love of the Tiger, heck of a nice plane, but at least the C-140/C-172's will keep you in the air.

You are always welcome for the Sunday morning breakfast flyout.

Gary

 

[John J]

Joe;

Sorry to here about what happened. I had that happen once at the old Zans airport (now closed and has been for some time) I was a very young commercial pilot. I was on my second charter trip to Zans. Just after I landed I was confronted by a person who demanded 5 dollars to land there ( a big landing fee in 1962). He demanded that I could not get any fuel until I paid the fee. I knew I had 2 hours in the tanks. I did not pay the fee and flew out of there to Islip. to get fuel. I told my chief pilot and he told everyone he knew not to land at Zans. It worked and their business dropped off. The same thing will happen at PTW if they continue in this manor.

John J.

 

[RogerT]

Joe ..

I'd suggest posting your experience on Airnav so others can be
spared the same treatment at this airport. Put Eric's name
in the post. Then tell the airport authority you've posted what
a nice place they have.

I had a bad experience at Yankton, SD once. A friend and I
stopped to find something eat and we were met on the flight
line by a local gestapo deputy Fife yelling at us that it was secure
and we weren't supposed to be out there by the airplanes. The guy
was a total A__Hole. We told him we were there because we just
fricking LANDED and pilots and airplanes USE airports and have
every right to be there. We just turned around and told him
we'd not be leaving any money there and would tell everyone we
knew to stay way away. I've never since been back.

Oh .. this was in the late seventies. Go figure. I'll bet he's out there
to this day protecting the citizens of Yankton.

 

[corjulo]

Come on. One cranky ass jerk wouldn't end my relationship with a convenient airport. In-fact I'd go back an rent from them just to give old Eric a big hardy "how ya doing Eric". Sounds like he's a line guy or a mechanic. Chances are nobody likes him.

 

[Greebo]

PTW - thats where we had the picnic last year right?

The place that Ron Levy got the horrible service at?

Well the more people give them feedback about the negative treatment there, the sooner they'l find their business drying up I guess.

 

[Alan Davis]

i would like to take this moment to differentiate myself from this other "Eric"...we're not all bad! ahah

Of course not -- you're a Davis, how COULD you be bad?

 

[Anthony]

PTW - thats where we had the picnic last year right?

The place that Ron Levy got the horrible service at?

Well the more people give them feedback about the negative treatment there, the sooner they'l find their business drying up I guess.

I think they dinged Ron for a $20 ramp fee because he was flyng a twin and parked on the ramp. This was not advertised to even the people based on the field as its only for transients. I'll be curious to see what Len has to say as he's based there with his Mooney.

In general I've had OK service from the flight line at PTW but I've always flown in. A couple of their guys did strike me as "wack jobs" though, just soemthing about their demeanor.

 

[Len Lanetti]

I'll be curious to see what Len has to say as he's based there with his Mooney.

PTW is the place where Ron was dinged heavily for parking his Cougar on the ramp. Phone calls I placed to the FBO at that time did not yield any real results. I will call again and report back.

Note, I actually don't rent my hanger from the FBO and have not been buying much fuel of late (as the airplane has been at my A&Ps hanger for about 6 months).

Len

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

As I posted the other day, I've been trying to decide whether to rent an older 172 from PTW, or rent newer Diamonds and Skyhawks from Wings. We've been renting planes from 3 airports, and have decided we need to kinda pick one and stick with it. We're spending too much money on checkouts LOL. I love the Tiger's from Hortman Aviation at PNE, and the FBO is awesome, but it's just too much of a drive. It took us an hour and a half to get home last Monday. I had an interview for a part time line service job at PTW the other day that went really well, and I decided to give their planes a second look while I was there. I'm not a total stranger to the place, since that's where I've usually been buying my charts and AF/Ds. Cathy has veto authority over what planes we fly, so today I took her out to see the planes. There was no one in the office, not an unusual situation. Everybody was up flying. They don't have signs up on the hangar door leading to the flightline prohibiting entry, and they've never had an issue with me going out to see the planes before. Today, we went out to see the Skyhawk, and Cathy had just finished giving the plane her OK when here comes a hero going by the name of Eric. First words out of his mouth are "This isn't a sight seeing airport, get out." Oh... I said "We're thinking about renting these planes, and would like to check them out." I fully expected him to render a little customer service, as other airports have, but he just repeated "this isn't a sight seeing airport, get out" and came at me and Cathy like he was going to attack us. Scared Cathy to death. We left, with him following behind flapping his gums. I did a decent job keeping my mouth shut until just before we were off the flight line, when I told him I'd be letting his bosses know why we were going to be spending our $1,000 a month elsewhere. His response was "My name's Eric, get it right." Well, I knew that.. it was on his shirt! Sean asked me why he was acting that way, and the only thing I could tell Sean was that some people are just ****oles.

We stopped in at Limerick Flight Center and left a note explaining what had happened, and laid out for them exactly how much money we spend flying monthly, told them they wouldn't be getting any of that, or the money I'll be spending this fall on my isntrument ticket, and left. The manager of the flight school called me later and left a message, explaining that his school was seperate from the airport management, and apologizing for the conduct we were subjected to. Too late, I was out at Wings making my reservations. I do feel sorry for him, but I'll not be spending another cent at that airport, nor will I ever set foot on it again. His business is operating on a property that makes it clear they don't welcome visitors or pilots. Airport security is one thing, but it doesn't require conduct like me, my wife, and son were subjected to, nor will I pay to support such an airport. There are a ton of airports in this area competing for business, and mine walked away forever, along with the recommendations I'll give other pilots or want to be pilots to steer clear of PTW.

I guess the search for a part time job goes on LOL.

No one would blame you for never going back.

Our little friend Eric will then be doing similar things detrimental to all for who knows how long, probably. When you have the energy, the more positive actions suggested throughout this thread will be better for all in the long run.

But if you have to, just him.

 

[pete177]

I've never paid a landing fee at anyplace I've landed. What happens if you simply refuse to pay the fee?

 

[EdFred]

I've never paid a landing fee at anyplace I've landed. What happens if you simply refuse to pay the fee?

They can put a lien on your plane. I got a landing fee mailed to me once.

 

[rmciottijr]

Joe.

Thanks for the info I think I will just pass PTW by next for fuel.

Bob

 

[Keith Lane]

Might I suggest that nexrt time you are within Unicom range, ask over that freq if Eric still works there. If they answer yes, explain that you will not stop there as long as he does. Offer to call them and explain it if they ask why. A conversation like that over the airwaves may have an effect on them. It sure helped lower fuel prices at KPCM once upon a time.

 

[MSmith]

Joe,

Thanks for posting this. I've been flying around the area landing at different airports recently (Reading this past Sunday) and I've flown over PTW as I went by the VOR. I'll cross it off my list for a stop someday.

 

[gkainz]

AOPA has the Airport Volunteer program to help keep airports open - I wonder if they have a volunteer at PTW who would be interested in being some kind of mediator or at least pass on the story and concerns. Sure would hate to see an airport go down the tubes with pilots hastening its demise, even if it was due to multiple self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the feet. Someone at PTW has to care about the public perception that's being presented, wouldn't you think?

 

[pete177]

Hmm..doesnt sound right to me. You typically have to go to court to obtain a judgement in that fashion and it isnt against an asset, its against the person. Is there anything written anywhere as public policy that states that?

They can put a lien on your plane. I got a landing fee mailed to me once.

 

[grattonja]

Joe ..

I'd suggest posting your experience on Airnav so others can be
spared the same treatment at this airport. Put Eric's name
in the post. Then tell the airport authority you've posted what
a nice place they have.

I had a bad experience at Yankton, SD once. A friend and I
stopped to find something eat and we were met on the flight
line by a local gestapo deputy Fife yelling at us that it was secure
and we weren't supposed to be out there by the airplanes. The guy
was a total A__Hole. We told him we were there because we just
fricking LANDED and pilots and airplanes USE airports and have
every right to be there. We just turned around and told him
we'd not be leaving any money there and would tell everyone we
knew to stay way away. I've never since been back.

Oh .. this was in the late seventies. Go figure. I'll bet he's out there
to this day protecting the citizens of Yankton.

I agree with posting on airnav. I lavish praise on the deserving ones and I make my problems with the problem airports known. So far, praise ourruns complaints about 6-1. I find airnav a really useful tool to learn the ins and outs of the FBOs on the ground at places. They tend to have the little inputs that the other sites don't.

Jim G

 

[poadeleted3]

I had a conversation about this with the manager out there today when he called to offer me a job. He says the guy is nice, etc. Cathy and I have our own take on that, but the manager said they have been told by the nuclear power plant, which owns the airport, to chase people off, and "don't take no." Sounded to me like the owners want them to be pretty hard core. I told him maybe so, but there were other ways of handling the issue, IMHO. He apologized, and did say that Eric will be reprimanded and may lose some hours this week. They began the installation of security fencing this week, and he said he'll make sure a "no admittance" sign is put on the doors from the lobby.


Turns out, he was wanting me to work side by side with Eric. I told him that as much as I appreciated the offer (and I do) I didn't see anything but trouble coming from that setup. Besides, while the manager seems nice, I'm really not sure that airport is the kind of setup I want to work at. I want to promote GA, and they are running a private strip, with no such concerns.

 

[Dave Langton]

In all fairness, the flight school is a separate business entity from airport management. The line crew work for the airport and not the school.

 

[SkyHog]

In all fairness, the flight school is a separate business entity from airport management. The line crew work for the airport and not the school.

Little bit late on the post there Dave....but I think it matters not. If the linecrew are not providing the service that's needed for the school, then the school should hire their own and stop using the airport's linecrew.

I will never find it acceptable to experience what Joe had described there.

 

[poadeleted3]

In all fairness, the flight school is a separate business entity from airport management. The line crew work for the airport and not the school.

Yes, I know, and they seem to be nice folks, with decent planes at good prices. Problem is, they are on that airport. Wish they'd move In the meantime, my wife flat out refuses to set foot on that airport again, which kind of bites. They are only about 10 minutes away.

 

[poadeleted3]

Little bit late on the post there Dave....but I think it matters not. If the linecrew are not providing the service that's needed for the school, then the school should hire their own and stop using the airport's linecrew.

I will never find it acceptable to experience what Joe had described there.

It's a privately owned airport, so no matter what the school does, you still have to deal with the airport's ownership.