PT 2: How long is a clearance good for? (Before contacting ATC).

[Insane]

This is a related question to the other one, but is a slightly different situation and I didn't want to hijack that thread so started a new one.

Let's say I'm at an uncontrolled airport in a valley in a remote area. I have a filed IFR plan. My intention is to depart VFR and get my clearance in the air when able, but dang it some unforecast low clouds have moved in and because of surrounding terrain I now need to get my IFR clearance on the ground. I call and get my routing along with a release time and a clearance void time. The clearance void time is 10 minutes after the release time. I take off at the appropriate release time towards my first waypoint as instructed and start climb to my assigned altitude. I tune in the center frequency that I've been assigned and periodically try to establish contact. Unfortunately this is a remote area and I'm unable to contact center until I am 12,000 feet and 15 minutes after my release time (i.e five minutes after my clearance void time). My plane will only climb at 500 fpm. In the meantime I have climbed through a cloud layer.

So my question is, since I did not establish contact with ATC before the void time (although I tried my hardest and left exactly on time), does this mean that technically I was not on an IFR plan and had illegally flown through clouds before contacting them?

 

[frfly172]

If you take off before the void time ,you are IFR.

 

[MarkZ]

This is a related question to the other one, but is a slightly different situation and I didn't want to hijack that thread so started a new one.

Let's say I'm at an uncontrolled airport in a valley in a remote area. I have a filed IFR plan. My intention is to depart VFR and get my clearance in the air when able, but dang it some unforecast low clouds have moved in and because of surrounding terrain I now need to get my IFR clearance on the ground. I call and get my routing along with a release time and a clearance void time. The clearance void time is 10 minutes after the release time. I take off at the appropriate release time towards my first waypoint as instructed and start climb to my assigned altitude. I tune in the center frequency that I've been assigned and periodically try to establish contact. Unfortunately this is a remote area and I'm unable to contact center until I am 12,000 feet and 15 minutes after my release time (i.e five minutes after my clearance void time). My plane will only climb at 500 fpm. In the meantime I have climbed through a cloud layer.

So my question is, since I did not establish contact with ATC before the void time (although I tried my hardest and left exactly on time), does this mean that technically I was not on an IFR plan and had illegally flown through clouds before contacting them?

The void time is a "wheels up by" time. Not a "contact ATC by" time. The controller working your flight will know that you cannot make contact until a certain point.

 

[Brad Z]

So my question is, since I did not establish contact with ATC before the void time (although I tried my hardest and left exactly on time), does this mean that technically I was not on an IFR plan and had illegally flown through clouds before contacting them?

No, it means you're treated as lost comms pursuant to 14 CFR 91.185

 

[Velocity173]

To echo above, you were off before your void time you're good. A lot of times they'll give you a liberal void time anticipating delays on your part anyway. Flying through the cloud layer wouldn't be a problem either.

 

[MarkZ]

No, it means you're treated as lost comms pursuant to 14 CFR 91.185

Void times do not start lost comms procedures, nor do they start S&R procedures.

If contact isn't made by the "contact XXX facility no later than (time) with intentions" time, then lost comms as well as S&R procedures are followed.

 

[Brad Z]

Void times do not start lost comms procedures, nor do they start S&R procedures.

If contact isn't made by the "contact XXX facility no later than (time) with intentions" time, then lost comms as well as S&R procedures are followed.

Perhaps my analogy is weak, but my point is that if they issue a void time and then they don't hear from you notifying them that you never took off, they will assume you took off and will clear airspace as necessary. Obviously it's not a true lost comms situation if you don't expect to be able to make radio contact until some point in time, but in that situation the OP would be legal IFR, just as a lost comms situation is still legal IFR.

 

[MarkZ]

Perhaps my analogy is weak, but my point is that if they issue a void time and then they don't hear from you notifying them that you never took off, they will assume you took off and will clear airspace as necessary. Obviously it's not a true lost comms situation if you don't expect to be able to make radio contact until some point in time, but in that situation the OP would be legal IFR, just as a lost comms situation is still legal IFR.

Absolutely correct, I read what you wrote wrong.

My bad.