Pros & Cons of home building?
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wabower
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Wayne
First you must answer some questions about your goals and aspriations for the next 5-7 years.
1. Are you an indoor or an outdoor kind of guy? Do you prefer sunshine and breezes or flourescent lights over a work bench while bucking rivets?
2. What sounds do you enjoy? Those of an engine making full rated for takeoff
1. Are you an indoor or an outdoor kind of guy? Do you prefer sunshine and breezes or flourescent lights over a work bench while bucking rivets?
2. What sounds do you enjoy? Those of an engine making full rated for takeoff
I LOVE my experimental....
..Other then you cannot use one for commercial purposes the EX route is the way to go...IMHO..
JHW
En-Route
Building is an end unto itself. Build because you want to build. Don't start a build thinking it's a quick or cheap way to fly.
JHW
En-Route
If you want a new airplane you pay in $$ or you pay in time and sweat, but either way new airplanes aren't cheap. The $$ saved in favor of sweat are not worth it if you are not a builder by nature.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Only if your time has no value.
Jim Logajan
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What kind of aircraft fits your mission?
Some experimentals go together rather quickly (some completed in months, not years; e.g. Arion Lightning.)
Experimentals compared to certified aircraft of the same vintage and capability will generally take a smaller bite out of your bank account, but much more of your labor.
One experimental that has seems to have a low cost and labor while delivering reasonable carrying capacity seems to be the CH-750. Not fast and not pretty, but seems to get the job done.
RV10flyer
Pattern Altitude
After finishing up my private in 2008, we looked at used and new that could carry 600 lbs of people and 100 lbs baggage at 140 KTAS or greater. Used in good condition with ifr panel and plenty of time remaining= approx $100,000. New= $350,000 and up. Our zero-time RV-10 with an IO-540, glass IFR, SV, AP, 160 KTAS @10.5 gph= a bunch less $ and two years of building 20-25 hrs/week. I did not like building as much as flying. I built to have my own brand new light-weight, simple-interior plane. It is no Cirrus and I don't win shows. It is for hauling us around to see this beautiful country. We saved then bought the entire kit less engine/prop/avionics. By the time we finished building the airframe, we were ready for the rest. I also built our house and two workshops as we saved most of the money. Saved a bunch there too. Banks hate it when you pay small loans off early and the govt gives no breaks to people that are not in debt. It all depends on your finances, free time, understanding/supportive family, skills, dedication, etc. Can you do without eating out and cooking at home, packing your lunch, an hour of tv a week, an hour/day online, $37 directv bill, no vacations for 4 yrs, driving 11/13 yr old vehicles, etc. Of course if I made six figures then I would have just bought one new.
My time spent building would have been the following if I had not built: tv/movies/eating out, computing, gardening, r/c flying, beer/wine making, reading. Did I miss out on anything valuable for two years?? Only one...my family. They actually helped on 25% of it. We have more than made up for it in the last 15 months of flying over 100 hours xc. Yes, I value my time and choose to do what I want in my free time after work. I don't put a price on it.
Pros: I do everything on my plane except static/transponder tests, avionics repairs/engine & prop overhaul. I manufactured and/or installed and personally know every single part of my plane. It out performs many similar certified aircraft. I built it exactly the way I wanted it. I built it in my garage.
Cons: Not as nice on the inside. Not as quiet without ANR headsets. Difficult to find some parts or someone to work on it on a xc. Many think you are dangerous/crazy/show off for flying such a contraption...some really are. ATC always confuses RV with Army, we cruise about the same too. Some certified pilots treat us differently even though that is where 95% of us started. I like all planes and would have one of each if I was rich.
My time spent building would have been the following if I had not built: tv/movies/eating out, computing, gardening, r/c flying, beer/wine making, reading. Did I miss out on anything valuable for two years?? Only one...my family. They actually helped on 25% of it. We have more than made up for it in the last 15 months of flying over 100 hours xc. Yes, I value my time and choose to do what I want in my free time after work. I don't put a price on it.
Pros: I do everything on my plane except static/transponder tests, avionics repairs/engine & prop overhaul. I manufactured and/or installed and personally know every single part of my plane. It out performs many similar certified aircraft. I built it exactly the way I wanted it. I built it in my garage.
Cons: Not as nice on the inside. Not as quiet without ANR headsets. Difficult to find some parts or someone to work on it on a xc. Many think you are dangerous/crazy/show off for flying such a contraption...some really are. ATC always confuses RV with Army, we cruise about the same too. Some certified pilots treat us differently even though that is where 95% of us started. I like all planes and would have one of each if I was rich.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Light and Sporty Guy
Building / owning are two different things.
Build if and only if you want to build an airplane. Be aware that kit / plan suppliers can be somewhat optimistic when it comes to the time / money required to build and performance when complete.
If you want to save money, buy a used already flying homebuilt. You can often get something already flying for about the price of a new engine alone. Maintainance can be less expensive if you get a well built aircraft in good condition and you have the skills to keep it up. Be aware that homebuilders often fall short when it comes to the electrical / fuel systems. You may need to do some upgrading. Also be aware that the airplane may have never been seen by an A/P - have it looked at by your A/P.
Some people claim to worry that the homebuilder may have left a critical bolt out and the wings will fall off. That is not supported by statistics - what is supported are problems with the systems as noted above. Also, wings fall off type certificated aircraft when a mechanic fails to put the nut on a critical bolt (yes, it has happened).
Read the operating limitiations for any aircraft you may want to purchase.
I bought an already flying homebuilt myself.
Build if and only if you want to build an airplane. Be aware that kit / plan suppliers can be somewhat optimistic when it comes to the time / money required to build and performance when complete.
If you want to save money, buy a used already flying homebuilt. You can often get something already flying for about the price of a new engine alone. Maintainance can be less expensive if you get a well built aircraft in good condition and you have the skills to keep it up. Be aware that homebuilders often fall short when it comes to the electrical / fuel systems. You may need to do some upgrading. Also be aware that the airplane may have never been seen by an A/P - have it looked at by your A/P.
Some people claim to worry that the homebuilder may have left a critical bolt out and the wings will fall off. That is not supported by statistics - what is supported are problems with the systems as noted above. Also, wings fall off type certificated aircraft when a mechanic fails to put the nut on a critical bolt (yes, it has happened).
Read the operating limitiations for any aircraft you may want to purchase.
I bought an already flying homebuilt myself.
wabower
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Wayne
What job?
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
The personal satisfaction and self discipline that comes from building your own airplane cannot be over emphasized or discounted. You learn a lot about yourself, and gain admiration for other who build better planes than yours. Home builders is a brotherhood ( and sisterhood) of outstanding individuals. There is nothing better than landing a plane you built and putting it on display at Oshkosh. Nothing.
A lot of experimental owners build and fly. They buy a flying plane and build in their spare time selling the flying one when they are done or need money for the engine and firewall and avionics.
My advice would be to buy a flying plane to get your feet wet in experimental aviation, then decide. The cost savings on maintenance and operating costs is significant.
Down side? I'm still looking.
Below is a link to Vans Aircraft cost estimater. It is fairly accurate. Take a look at which model you would like to own and get an accurate idea of cost to build, then look at used aircraft. The RV-6's are priced lower on the market today due to volume of airplanes, not because they are undesirable. Sport aerobatics, a nice performance envelope of high speed and low stall makes RV's the most popular and successful aircraft kit company.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/cost-estimator.htm
A lot of experimental owners build and fly. They buy a flying plane and build in their spare time selling the flying one when they are done or need money for the engine and firewall and avionics.
My advice would be to buy a flying plane to get your feet wet in experimental aviation, then decide. The cost savings on maintenance and operating costs is significant.
Down side? I'm still looking.
Below is a link to Vans Aircraft cost estimater. It is fairly accurate. Take a look at which model you would like to own and get an accurate idea of cost to build, then look at used aircraft. The RV-6's are priced lower on the market today due to volume of airplanes, not because they are undesirable. Sport aerobatics, a nice performance envelope of high speed and low stall makes RV's the most popular and successful aircraft kit company.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/cost-estimator.htm
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jmp470
Line Up and Wait
Only if you discount your time.... I value my time at over $100 per hour... so how does that compare to certified?
I value my time at 150 an hour... Bottom line is.. you either enjoy the experience and education you get during the building process or your type of personality is such that money can buy anything, including a factory built spam can..... One of the great blessings of the United States Of America is we have a choice. I think Geico said it best in the above post... Homebuilders are a unique and goal driven group of people... The feeling of flying an aircraft you built is absolutely PRICELESS.....
Tony_Fletcher
Pre-Flight
I think you need to be sure that your family is onboard with the building plan too. What's the Burt Rutan quote on how long it takes to build an airplane? "About one and half marriages."
RV10flyer
Pattern Altitude
I have 210,384 hrs in my one and only marriage. I spent 2,100 on the -10 slow build. So 1% of my marriage.
I could not have accomplished it without the support and sacrifice that my family provided.
I could not have accomplished it without the support and sacrifice that my family provided.
Jim Logajan
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That was my first question, though I phrased it differently.
If the OP needs short field capabilities and wants to fly under LSA regs, a CH-750 is one good option. If the OP needs speed and more seats or whatever, the requirements may be such that no homebuilt can meet them.
For example, if for some reason the OP wants a cantilevered high wing he wont be able to build one from any existing homebuilt designs. At least I'm not aware of any such designs.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
Wow. That's pretty cool. But why does it not give you an IFR option?
Seanaldinho
Pattern Altitude
The pro is you built it!
The con is you built it...
The con is you built it...
wabower
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Wayne
I can assure you that I've never spent a single minute thinking about the guy who built the 30-some I've owned before, why would it feel different if I spent 5 years listening to a rivet gun?
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I value my time at 150 an hour... Bottom line is.. you either enjoy the experience and education you get during the building process or your type of personality is such that money can buy anything, including a factory built spam can..... One of the great blessings of the United States Of America is we have a choice. I think Geico said it best in the above post... Homebuilders are a unique and goal driven group of people... The feeling of flying an aircraft you built is absolutely PRICELESS.....
DaleB
Final Approach
I value my WORKING time pretty highly. I value my RECREATIONAL time at whatever I feel like. If I valued my time at $150 per hour (which is a little low, really) 24 hours a day, I'd be paying people to mow my lawn and take out the garbage, too. I don't.
I'm building so that I can have a brand new, fast, fuel efficient airplane, equipped the way I want it (glass panel, backup instruments, engine monitoring, GPS and autopilot) for a fraction of the cost of factory built. The fact that it's capable of aerobatics is a bonus. I'm still flying as much as before I started building -- a little more, actually. Hooray for flying clubs! In fact, it was the club that helped me decide to build. Seeing ALL of the expense and work involved in owning, flying and maintaining a factory built airplane convinced me of two things: One, I could afford to own my own. Two, I didn't want to own most of the planes I can afford.
When I asked a similar question here, I got two kinds of responses. People who had never built their own airplane or owned an experimental (and therefore had no actual first hand knowledge about the subject) almost unanimously said it was a dumb idea; only crazy fools would do such a thing. People who had actual first hand experience unanimously said to go for it.
Then I went to a local EAA chapter meeting and met a lot of home builders and E/AB owners and pilots. The fact that they are without exception sane, normal, rational people and competent, disciplined pilots helped convince me the idea wasn't crazy.
Then I found a partially completed RV-7A kit for sale at a price that was simply too good to pass up. The rest is history. I'm about 120 hours in and not regretting it for one second. Tonight I'll work on my airplane for a few hours; tomorrow morning I take off at 6 AM for a pancake breakfast. I can't complain. And my wife isn't complaining either, so there are no AIDS (Aviation Related Divorce Syndrome) symptoms.
It's said there are builders and flyers. I'm a flyer, but right now I'm building too. I doubt I'd want to do it more than once, but doing it once is proving to be a highly educational and extremely fulfilling experience. The people I've met along the way are first rate, and in the end I'll know literally every screw, bolt, bend and rivet in the airplane I'm flying.
The fact that there are now more than 8,000 RVs flying -- not being built, but flying -- says a lot. And that's not even touching on the thousands more EZs, Cozies, Glasairs, Lancairs, Fly Babies, Thorps, Bearhawks and Lord only knows what else are out there. Must not be too crazy an idea.
I'm building so that I can have a brand new, fast, fuel efficient airplane, equipped the way I want it (glass panel, backup instruments, engine monitoring, GPS and autopilot) for a fraction of the cost of factory built. The fact that it's capable of aerobatics is a bonus. I'm still flying as much as before I started building -- a little more, actually. Hooray for flying clubs! In fact, it was the club that helped me decide to build. Seeing ALL of the expense and work involved in owning, flying and maintaining a factory built airplane convinced me of two things: One, I could afford to own my own. Two, I didn't want to own most of the planes I can afford.
When I asked a similar question here, I got two kinds of responses. People who had never built their own airplane or owned an experimental (and therefore had no actual first hand knowledge about the subject) almost unanimously said it was a dumb idea; only crazy fools would do such a thing. People who had actual first hand experience unanimously said to go for it.
Then I went to a local EAA chapter meeting and met a lot of home builders and E/AB owners and pilots. The fact that they are without exception sane, normal, rational people and competent, disciplined pilots helped convince me the idea wasn't crazy.
Then I found a partially completed RV-7A kit for sale at a price that was simply too good to pass up. The rest is history. I'm about 120 hours in and not regretting it for one second. Tonight I'll work on my airplane for a few hours; tomorrow morning I take off at 6 AM for a pancake breakfast. I can't complain. And my wife isn't complaining either, so there are no AIDS (Aviation Related Divorce Syndrome) symptoms.
It's said there are builders and flyers. I'm a flyer, but right now I'm building too. I doubt I'd want to do it more than once, but doing it once is proving to be a highly educational and extremely fulfilling experience. The people I've met along the way are first rate, and in the end I'll know literally every screw, bolt, bend and rivet in the airplane I'm flying.
The fact that there are now more than 8,000 RVs flying -- not being built, but flying -- says a lot. And that's not even touching on the thousands more EZs, Cozies, Glasairs, Lancairs, Fly Babies, Thorps, Bearhawks and Lord only knows what else are out there. Must not be too crazy an idea.
DaleB
Final Approach
So far, so good!You are going to turn out just like the rest of us homebuilders......
Happy as hell...
Dave Krall CFII
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Dave Krall CFII SEL SES, Cmcl HELI
One Experimental pro is building a custom designed aircraft that has the specs, quality and versatility that can not be commercially purchased at any price.
tinerj
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tinerj
On really good days when it is perfect to fly, I don't work on the homebuilt because I go flying.
When the weather is too hot to fly or too cold to fly, I don't work on the homebuilt because the hanger is too hot to work in or too cold to work in. Instead, I stay home and plan my next flying trip.
Which is why the homebuilt I began in 2003 is still only about 1/2 done. Still, I do work on it off and on and think I have learned a lot about drilling holes in perfectly good aluminum. 10,000 holes so far.
When the weather is too hot to fly or too cold to fly, I don't work on the homebuilt because the hanger is too hot to work in or too cold to work in. Instead, I stay home and plan my next flying trip.
Which is why the homebuilt I began in 2003 is still only about 1/2 done. Still, I do work on it off and on and think I have learned a lot about drilling holes in perfectly good aluminum. 10,000 holes so far.
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Allen C
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Allen C
first, I fly a Long-Ez that was already flying when I bought it. I know that I enjoy doing maintenance, but do not have the time to devote to a full build. However, I suspect that at some point I will build.
Pro: In the 6 years I have owned this plane I have spent a grand total of about $500 on conditional inspections. My inspections are done by myself and 2 A&P's in our EAA chapter. Usually a lunch or three, and generously restocking the hanger fridge is all the payment they will accept. The education I get all year long cannot be measured.
The plane is FAST and CHEAP to fly. Around 7gph at ~190 kts ground by my logs. The best illustration of cost is that I managed to keep the plane during medical school, and even used it to fly to various clinical sites because it was cheaper than driving. I'm sure that giving some rides to a few attendings didn't hurt my grades either. (Several began taking lessons not long after I left and we still stay in touch.)
Cons: You may not find EAA guys who are A&P's willing to work on your bird. However, if this were the case I would be very surprised. As I am sure you are finding out, the experimental community is a brotherhood with a rather eclectic pool of talents.
I would encourage you to take your questions down to a local EAA meeting and let them speak with you.
Remember, the first flight was done in an experimental pusher. ;-)
Pro: In the 6 years I have owned this plane I have spent a grand total of about $500 on conditional inspections. My inspections are done by myself and 2 A&P's in our EAA chapter. Usually a lunch or three, and generously restocking the hanger fridge is all the payment they will accept. The education I get all year long cannot be measured.
The plane is FAST and CHEAP to fly. Around 7gph at ~190 kts ground by my logs. The best illustration of cost is that I managed to keep the plane during medical school, and even used it to fly to various clinical sites because it was cheaper than driving. I'm sure that giving some rides to a few attendings didn't hurt my grades either.
(Several began taking lessons not long after I left and we still stay in touch.) Cons: You may not find EAA guys who are A&P's willing to work on your bird. However, if this were the case I would be very surprised. As I am sure you are finding out, the experimental community is a brotherhood with a rather eclectic pool of talents.
I would encourage you to take your questions down to a local EAA meeting and let them speak with you.
Remember, the first flight was done in an experimental pusher. ;-)
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cocolos
Pre-takeoff checklist
first, I fly a Long-Ez that was already flying when I bought it. I know that I enjoy doing maintenance, but do not have the time to devote to a full build. However, I suspect that at some point I will build.
Pro: In the 6 years I have owned this plane I have spent a grand total of about $500 on conditional inspections. My inspections are done by myself and 2 A&P's in our EAA chapter. Usually a lunch or three, and generously restocking the hanger fridge is all the payment they will accept. The education I get all year long cannot be measured.
The plane is FAST and CHEAP to fly. Around 7gph at ~190 kts ground by my logs. The best illustration of cost is that I managed to keep the plane during medical school, and even used it to fly to various clinical sites because it was cheaper than driving. I'm sure that giving some rides to a few attendings didn't hurt my grades either.
Cons: You may not find EAA guys who are A&P's willing to work on your bird. However, if this were the case I would be very surprised. As I am sure you are finding out, the experimental community is a brotherhood with a rather eclectic pool of talents.
I would encourage you to take your questions down to a local EAA meeting and let them speak with you.
Remember, the first flight was done in an experimental pusher. ;-)
What airplane do you own?