Pros and Cons of C172 vs. PA28 Warrior/Cherokee as training aircraft

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Rayden

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Rayden
Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of research by reading all sorts of articles, and of course, spending insane amount of time on this forum. Given my current circumstances, I believe it'll be better served for me to study all my ground school stuffs first and maybe even taking the ground parts of the exams over the next few months, and then start actual flight training in late spring or summer. The reasons are plenty, but it has to do with family time, work commitments, and ensuring available funds fro completion in a few months and not years.

With that being said, if the conditions of both aircraft are the same, which one would make a better training aircraft b/t the C172 (R or S model) and the Piper Warrior/Cherokee PA28? I do know that if I get my PPL and like flying as much as I think I would like it now, I would be interested in part ownership in a plane, or join a flying club, and that I have so far a visual preference for low wings. Thanks in advance for the advices.
 
I trained in (and continue to fly) the C172 simply because of the availability of aircraft. Around here, there are only a couple Warriors I have access to. I don't want to make an uninformed statement, however it appears that most places tend to have Cessna aircraft, with the occasional Piper, Diamond, Cirrus or light sport options.

One big concern is that you don't want to get into a situation where the lack of availability of aircraft due to scheduling or maintenance issues draws your training out. If one aircraft type is available more so than another, I'd go with that one.
 
They are different airplanes but really not as hard to transition between as you might think.

I would lean towards the 172 because it has two doors and the high wing will give you some shade on those hot Texas days.

I prefer the Johnson Bar flap controls in the Piper, but the Cessna has huge flaps that will really slow you down and help you descend in a hurry if you need to.

Low wing airplanes are slightly sexier looking than Cessnas but the Piper wing isn't that great because of all the exposed rivets and whatnot. I'm no expert on Grummans but if you get a chance, compare the smooth wing on a Grumman to the Piper PA-28 series, you'll see what I mean.
 
In the multitude of articles you've read, no one has been smart enough to answer this most obvious question?

I'm shocked, appalled and dismayed.
 
Doesn't matter, I like low wings better. Figure out which one is painted a color you prefer and train in that one if the price is the same.
 
Pretty much what Rusty said -- the differences between the C-172 and the PA28 are largely aesthetic. If you are choosing between two schools, one of which operates Cessnas and another which operates Pipers, forget the planes and take the school with the best instructors and training program. If you have a choice of 172 or PA28 at the school you like, I'd say take the one you think you'll be flying later on. If you're not sure which you want to fly, take the cheaper one.
 
Be careful about taking the ground test too early. Sure you can go through the DVD's and ground through a multitude of avenues but I found I grasped the information alot better once I actually did it. Such as VOR tracking.

I started my training in a 172 and then had to switch over to the Warrior. I gotta say I like the low wing better but it's just because that is what was available for the 'ride.
 
It's really a religious issue.

As noted in other postings, go with what's available (airplane & CFI) more often. And go for the better CFI - interview CFIs and see which matches best with your learning style & personality.

Pricing should be about the same, flight characteristics are very similar. One advantage of the low wing is that when in the pattern, you can see then runway at all times. High wing blocks visibility base to final.
 
As some of you have suggested, I also think that above all else I should pick the best CFI that fits me and then go with the suggested aircraft by him/her. I do plan on interviewing a few CFIs to get a feel before starting.

Good point on taking test too early Saracelica, I'll need to assess that once I go through some of those DVDs.

Cap'n Ron, I think the likelihood of flying a Piper more so than a Cessna later on is higher, but at the same time the 172 is more plentiful around here and if the transition b/t the two is a non-issue, I guess I can go either way and make availability a higher priority.
 
Jaybird180 said:
In the multitude of articles you've read, no one has been smart enough to answer this most obvious question?

I'm shocked, appalled and dismayed.
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Sorry, I've done a search and haven't found any thread specifically for this, so I asked. Of all the post I've read I get a sense that these 2, along with the C152 are very common trainers but haven't seen much concrete pros and cons b/t the 2. Maybe there are some posts on it but maybe I haven't come across enough of them. Sorry that you have all these mixed emotions, I know it's difficult :wink2: :wink2:
 
Rayden said:
Sorry, I've done a search and haven't found any thread specifically for this, so I asked. Of all the post I've read I get a sense that these 2, along with the C152 are very common trainers but haven't seen much concrete pros and cons b/t the 2. Maybe there are some posts on it but maybe I haven't come across enough of them. Sorry that you have all these mixed emotions, I know it's difficult :wink2: :wink2:
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152s are generally cheaper to rent and have an honest stall. If you and your CFI fit in one, I'd train in it.
 
Rayden said:
As some of you have suggested, I also think that above all else I should pick the best CFI that fits me and then go with the suggested aircraft by him/her. I do plan on interviewing a few CFIs to get a feel before starting.

Good point on taking test too early Saracelica, I'll need to assess that once I go through some of those DVDs.

Cap'n Ron, I think the likelihood of flying a Piper more so than a Cessna later on is higher, but at the same time the 172 is more plentiful around here and if the transition b/t the two is a non-issue, I guess I can go either way and make availability a higher priority.
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Different for everyone but transition time should be an hour or two.
 
I flew both about equally throughout my training and liked them equally. I prefer flying the Cessna in the summer because the air flow inside is much better and you can open the windows.
 
I would suggest flying both. I took discovery flights in both and decided on the Cherokee for now, though I like the flight characteristics of both. I opted for the Cherokee because the Cessnas are in greater demand. Same rental price.
 
Ron Levy said:
forget the planes and take the school with the best instructors and training program. If you have a choice of 172 or PA28 at the school you like, I'd say take the one you think you'll be flying later on. If you're not sure which you want to fly, take the cheaper one.
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This.

The instructor is much more important than the airplane.

-Skip
 
I solo'd in a 172 and the club sold it the next day. I liked the switch to a piper archer and prefer low wing. If your flight school has both, take whichever one has more availability and you can switch between the two throughout training and it shouldn't slow down your progress. On the low wing you will add fuel pump/ switch tanks to checklist, and they are the same otherwise.
 
First, there's not much comparison between a 172R/S and most PA-28s out there. Unless they got some of the very few PA-28s made in the last decade. The 172R/S will be much newer, with better interiors and panels, plus fuel injection, etc. But they will cost more per hour.

For a same year 172/PA28, it's same/same as a training platform. They're both good, stable platforms with good flight training characteristics. Each has a couple advantages over the other, it all washes out.
Cessna has two doors, Piper has oleo gear for more forgiving landings. Cessna has better ground visibility in flight, Piper has better visibility in the pattern. Piper has easier ingress and egress, Cessna has a lot more legroom in the back. etc etc.

For buying, there's no comparison. Cessnas are more in demand (because people training in them and buy what they're used to). With a comparable Piper and Cessna (year, avionics, hours, etc), the Piper will cost about 25% less.
Much better bang for the buck with Cherokees.
 
Skip Miller said:
Pipers have one door, climb up on the wing. Cessnas have 2 doors, step in. I don't understand your comment quoted above.

-Skip
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OK, so it's just me with bad knees that the step up with the left foot and swing and twist to get in doesn't work.
Substitute "Easier to check the tanks" for Piper.
 
I learned on PA-28's and later bought a 182RG. I'd say it's a potato (po-tay-toe) potato (po-tah-toe) difference. I thought I was a low wing person until I flew my 182RG but honestly it doesn't matter at all. Go see teh schools, the mechanics and the instructors and then decide. The airplanes don't really matter at this point as long as they're maintained well.
 
the air flow inside is much better and you can open the windows.
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This is a big issue in areas with hot summers (I'm in Arkansas) and I like doors on both sides so I don't have to climb over the seats to get in the airplane. Also, if it is raining, you can get in and out of a Cessna under the wing without getting the cabin flooded. It is really (as everyone is saying) a personal preference, but for some of us older folks, the Cessna wins hands down.
 
saracelica said:
Be careful about taking the ground test too early. Sure you can go through the DVD's and ground through a multitude of avenues but I found I grasped the information alot better once I actually did it. Such as VOR tracking.

I started my training in a 172 and then had to switch over to the Warrior. I gotta say I like the low wing better but it's just because that is what was available for the 'ride.
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Devils Advocate here,

I took the written a year before I can even take the checkride.
 
Skip Miller said:
Pipers have one door, climb up on the wing. Cessnas have 2 doors, step in. I don't understand your comment quoted above.

-Skip
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+1

I'm selling a piper and buying a cessna (transactions which incur a financial loss) primarily and specifically because of the ingress/egress advantage of having two doors and no crouching action otherwise necessary by a low wing that necessitates lowering yourself to the seating position. There is simply no contest between car-like entry of a cessna and the retarded tuck,twist and scoot of the one-door Piper/Mooney/Beech contraptions.
 
hindsight2020 said:
+1

I'm selling a piper and buying a cessna (transactions which incur a financial loss) primarily and specifically because of the ingress/egress advantage of having two doors and no crouching action otherwise necessary by a low wing that necessitates lowering yourself to the seating position. There is simply no contest between car-like entry of a cessna and the retarded tuck,twist and scoot of the one-door Piper/Mooney/Beech contraptions.
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I am 50, but in decent shape. Getting in and out of my Cherokee is not an issue for me. It is no worse than getting in and out of my recliner. I suppose this is more of a personal issue. Once in a great while I get a passenger that has difficulty. The Cherokee is a much better bargain, as mentioned above and I personally like the look of the low wing, again, a personal preference. You will need to try them both and make up your own mind.
 
I did all but 4.1 hours of my training in 172s. That 4.1 was in a 150. And that's all the 150 time I have or will have. Can't get the seat back far enough. Back to the topic. If the club had a PA-28 for a trainer, that's what I would have flown. We have a PA-28R-200 (Arrow, folding gear version of the Cherokee) and I started flying that on my first club required annual review after getting my PPL. Is there a difference? Yes. As noted by others, the 172 has two doors and keeps you out of the rain while getting in and out. The PA-28 has one door and nothing to keep you dry while getting in and out. Both have 2 wings, a tail and one engine. Both get you from point A to point B faster than a car. :D

Other differences. Our old (1969) PA-28R-200 has the Hershey bar wing. Glides like a safe when you compare it with a 172. Make sure you experience the difference when flying both. A field in range for gliding in a 172 isn't necessarily in range with the old Arrow. For me, all our Cessnas (a pair of 172s and a 182) are carburetted and the Arrow has fuel injection. Starting procedures are different. And, the Arrow has a left/right fuel selector. The 172 and 182 have a "both" position. Fuel management is different.

One other difference for me. There is something about the seating position in the Arrow that is tough on my knees. 3 hours and it's all I can do to crawl out of it. I don't have that problem with the 172 or 182. If this isn't an issue for you, then don't worry about it. Some would say it's because I'm 60, but I've had this problem for the 10 years I've been flying the Arrow.

Whichever you wind up learning in, have fun and learn all you can. Either will serve the purpose well.
 
I trained in a 172 and cherokee 180. Personally, I felt like I could land the cherokee easier. I feel like the 172 is more comfortable, and the 2 doors is more convenient than the single door in the piper.

Honestly, you won't go wrong with either. I'd find out what is available locally to rent since you may be using them until you get your own plane.
 
Ghery said:
Other differences. Our old (1969) PA-28R-200 has the Hershey bar wing. Glides like a safe when you compare it with a 172. Make sure you experience the difference when flying both. A field in range for gliding in a 172 isn't necessarily in range with the old Arrow. .
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This is incorrect and was discussed in another thread, the Cherokee actually has a slightly better glide ratio than the 172 (but the are close and relatively the same), as long as you maintain best glide speed. The 140 is very benign and some say too easy to fly.
 
Also remember that you won't be learning in the Arrow (probably) because it's a retract and fuel injected (depending on the engine). The cherokees are carburators, fixed gear like the 172s (unless you have one of the really new 172s that may have fuel injectors)

Why I don't like the new 172? 11 fuel sumps to check every time you do the preflight.

Why I like low wing? Just stand there and fill the gas tanks, no climbing on a ladder and pulling the hose along with you up that ladder.

Like I said earlier - it's a religious decision.
 
I read somewhere that the Pipers are more forgiving with power-on stalls and that that may not be the best because it won't train me better on that stall than the 172? I want to learn to fly in part to conquer my small fear of flying, so I am ok with a more forgiving aircraft for now LOL ...
 
I did my PPL on a Warrior, liked it, but flew never since with one.

From my experience as a student pilot - advantages of the Warrior over a 172:

- better view when turning in the traffic pattern
- bar controlled flaps
- easy access to the tanks for filling / checking


Disadvantages:

- you must not forget to change tanks
- only one door
- my impression was that it did not flare as nicely as a 152 or a 172. Instead, it pretty much dropped on the runway, below a certain speed. But then again, this impression might have been biased by my rudimentary flying skills. :wink2:


I, personally, would make the decision depending on the availability of aircraft, as both are good and easy to operate planes.

Cheers,

Oliver
 
Rayden said:
I read somewhere that the Pipers are more forgiving with power-on stalls and that that may not be the best because it won't train me better on that stall than the 172? I want to learn to fly in part to conquer my small fear of flying, so I am ok with a more forgiving aircraft for now LOL ...
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The Cherokee is famous for its benign stall, you can get it to snap, but it takes effort and luck. Power on, it will just mush around a little and dip the nose, a non event when at altitude. The 172 stall is fairly mellow also. A 150/152 wil give you a nice crisp, abrupt break and will drop a wing if you're not coordinated.

IMHO the Cessna 150 is the best trainer out there, if you fit in one.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Devils Advocate here,

I took the written a year before I can even take the checkride.
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Same here, I took the written months before I ever set foot in an airplane.

As for OP, most of my training has been in C150/2, with only an outing or two in a C172 and never any Pipers. However, I'd welcome the chance to fly in a Piper. Or a Mooney.
 
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snoopyloopy said:
Same here, I took the written months before I ever set foot in an airplane.

As for OP, most of my training has been in C150/2, with only an outing or two in a C172 and never any Pipers. However, I'd welcome the chance to fly in a Piper. Or a Mooney.
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shouldn't be an issue, but isn't the written only valid for 24 months?
 
I'm looking at this purely through the eyes of a 35 year CFI who has instructed hundreds of hours in both. Let's face it, both of these airplanes have been successfully used as primary trainers for decades. Neither of them would be my first choice as a primary trainer. I think the time to fully develop all of those "must have" basic skills is from the get go, not down the road when you're trying to checkout in something not quite as docile as a Cherokee. There are plenty of common light aircraft out there that demand a lot more of a pilot than a Cherokee or 172. If I were going to teach one of my grandsons to fly I'd put him in a Citabria. Not because taildragger pilots are superior, but they do seem to know what their feet are for. As for real world reasons to select one of these over the other, all things being equal, I'd probably go with the Cessna 172 but that's just personal preference. However, since all things are never equal, and assuming both aircraft are in good condition and properly maintained, I'd go with the cheaper one.

However, don't lose sight of the fact that the airplane is not the most important consideration in learning how to fly. It's only of secondary importance, the most important factor is the CFI you choose. Choose wisely my friend. A good one can compensate for just about anything. A bad one is still a bad one even with the best of equipment.
 
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Ghery said:
I did all but 4.1 hours of my training in 172s. That 4.1 was in a 150. And that's all the 150 time I have or will have. Can't get the seat back far enough. Back to the topic. If the club had a PA-28 for a trainer, that's what I would have flown. We have a PA-28R-200 (Arrow, folding gear version of the Cherokee) and I started flying that on my first club required annual review after getting my PPL. Is there a difference? Yes. As noted by others, the 172 has two doors and keeps you out of the rain while getting in and out. The PA-28 has one door and nothing to keep you dry while getting in and out. Both have 2 wings, a tail and one engine. Both get you from point A to point B faster than a car. :D

Other differences. Our old (1969) PA-28R-200 has the Hershey bar wing. Glides like a safe when you compare it with a 172. Make sure you experience the difference when flying both. A field in range for gliding in a 172 isn't necessarily in range with the old Arrow. For me, all our Cessnas (a pair of 172s and a 182) are carburetted and the Arrow has fuel injection. Starting procedures are different. And, the Arrow has a left/right fuel selector. The 172 and 182 have a "both" position. Fuel management is different.

One other difference for me. There is something about the seating position in the Arrow that is tough on my knees. 3 hours and it's all I can do to crawl out of it. I don't have that problem with the 172 or 182. If this isn't an issue for you, then don't worry about it. Some would say it's because I'm 60, but I've had this problem for the 10 years I've been flying the Arrow.

Whichever you wind up learning in, have fun and learn all you can. Either will serve the purpose well.
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Will the new PPL find himself flying when the cats and dogs are falling from the sky?
 
The only important differences are that you don't get as wet climbing into a Cessna in the rain. The rest is just personal preference. My preference would be to try both at some point.
 
gismo said:
The only important differences are that you don't get as wet climbing into a Cessna in the rain. The rest is just personal preference. My preference would be to try both at some point.
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See my above unanswered question.
 
Maybe it's in the thread somewhere and I missed it, but many of us low-wing fans prefer the feeling of sitting atop the wing rather than dangling beneath it.

Other than that, they fly pretty much the same.
 
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