problems

[Unregistered]

I am a new private pilot. Several months ago I had a minor mishap, I accidentally hit a bush while taxiing. I thought something stuck on the rudder pedal, because the airplane stopped turning.The bushes were close to the taxiway too. But stupid mistake, I learned to be extra careful. Everyone was pretty nice to me, but I still felt horribly stupid. So anyway, over the summer, the flight school changed hands, my instructor left, new instructor came. New instructor and I did not hit it off, he gives me the creeps, and I think he's sexist. He doesn't want to let me rent there anymore because six months ago I hit a bush. So I went to another airport with a new instructor to start instrument training. First day up with new instructor, I heard the other instructor on the radio, and I'm sure he heard me. A few days after that, I got a phone call from the FAA that someone complained about me and the bush incident, and they were investigating. Now I have the joy of a 709 ride. I know I have to do this, but I'm pretty ****ed off that this other instructor seems to have it in for me. Any thoughts?

 

[gprellwitz]

Are they investigating, or have they completed the investigation and are calling for a 709 ride? In other words, is that ride a definite, or only a possibility?

 

[Tom-D]

I am a new private pilot. Several months ago I had a minor mishap, I accidentally hit a bush while taxiing. I thought something stuck on the rudder pedal, because the airplane stopped turning.The bushes were close to the taxiway too. But stupid mistake, I learned to be extra careful. Everyone was pretty nice to me, but I still felt horribly stupid. So anyway, over the summer, the flight school changed hands, my instructor left, new instructor came. New instructor and I did not hit it off, he gives me the creeps, and I think he's sexist. He doesn't want to let me rent there anymore because six months ago I hit a bush. So I went to another airport with a new instructor to start instrument training. First day up with new instructor, I heard the other instructor on the radio, and I'm sure he heard me. A few days after that, I got a phone call from the FAA that someone complained about me and the bush incident, and they were investigating. Now I have the joy of a 709 ride. I know I have to do this, but I'm pretty ****ed off that this other instructor seems to have it in for me. Any thoughts?

Punch the guy square in the face as hard as you can.

 

[Tom-D]

Are they investigating, or have they completed the investigation and are calling for a 709 ride? In other words, is that ride a definite, or only a possibility?

seems like some one is jumping the gun, I have many questions, was there an accident filed? did the insurance pay off on any claim? What is the FAA investigating?

lots of info needed to make a recommendation.

Do not fear the ride, if you are as good as you should be, it will be no problem.

 

[Unregistered]

Are they investigating, or have they completed the investigation and are calling for a 709 ride? In other words, is that ride a definite, or only a possibility?

I got the letter in the mail, two days after speaking with the safety inspector. I don't know what their investigation consisted of, but it was apparently pretty quick. The inspector was pretty nice about it, and said he was required to make me do this.

Punch the guy square in the face as hard as you can.

That's called assault. As much as I'm for that idea, it would only cause me more trouble, unless I can prove he's a sexist *******.

 

[Tom-D]

That's called assault. As much as I'm for that idea, it would only cause me more trouble, unless I can prove he's a sexist *******.

You must insure you are big enough to kick his a-- well enough that he won't file charges.
If not
Go scream in his face, it'll make ya feel better, specially if it is in front of his friends.

 

[steingar]

That's called assault. As much as I'm for that idea, it would only cause me more trouble, unless I can prove he's a sexist *******.

Don't worry. The Wheel of Karma always turns. It is inevitable. He'll get his.

 

[Tom-D]

I would ask the FAA agent " can you prove there was an accident?" "can you prove it"?

If there was an accident filed, I'd shut up and take the ride.

 

[Unregistered]

seems like some one is jumping the gun, I have many questions, was there an accident filed? did the insurance pay off on any claim? What is the FAA investigating?

lots of info needed to make a recommendation.

Do not fear the ride, if you are as good as you should be, it will be no problem.

yes, insurance claim. I guess they paid already, I'm not sure. FAA is investigating my apparent negligence. The safety inspector compared it to me driving and hitting my mailbox, but they were still required to check me.

 

[Unregistered]

Good Luck

yes, insurance claim. I guess they paid already, I'm not sure. FAA is investigating my apparent negligence. The safety inspector compared it to me driving and hitting my mailbox, but they were still required to check me.

Yeah, this is over the top. I had a friend do something similar, but he just caught the trim tab and bent it and scratch the paint a hair. He taxied back immediately and showed the FBO / School. The funny part was the FBO / Flight school said he might not have done the paint damage, and that they'd been complaining for months to get that bush removed. Small airport, and the guy never got around to it. I guess they got permission to close the runway for an hour and tore it out one day.

I hope your ride is smooth for you. Don't worry, if that instructor is a c*ck, he won't be instructing very long. At least I hope not. Hard enough to get good people into GA with excellent instructors.

 

[poadeleted20]

I would ask the FAA agent " can you prove there was an accident?" "can you prove it"?

Doesn't matter. Under Federal law, the FAA has the authority to reexamine any certificate holder at any time. An enforcement action would require proof of a violation (albeit only to the standard of "more likely than not"), but no such proof is necessary to order a reexamination. Ain't no way around this one, with or without proof of the incident.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I'm just wondering what sort of a "ride" is required to show you have learned not to taxi into a bush?

 

[EppyGA]

I'm just wondering what sort of a "ride" is required to show you have learned not to taxi into a bush?

A Taxi ride of course.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm just wondering what sort of a "ride" is required to show you have learned not to taxi into a bush?

The letter directing the OP to show up for the 709 ride should identify the specific Areas/Task(s) to be examined. I'm guessing it will include Area II, Task B, and focus on item 6:

D. TASK: TAXIING (ASEL)

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM.​

Objective.​

​

​

​

​

To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to safe taxi procedures.
2. Performs a brake check immediately after the airplane begins
moving.
3. Positions the flight controls properly for the existing wind conditions.
4. Controls direction and speed without excessive use of brakes.
5. Complies with airport/taxiway markings, signals, ATC clearances,
and instructions.​

6. Taxies so as to avoid other aircraft and hazards.

 

[EppyGA]

The letter directing the OP to show up for the 709 ride should identify the specific Areas/Task(s) to be examined. I'm guessing it will include Area II, Task B, and focus on item 6:

Is it conceivable they could taxi around the airport and never leave the ground then?

 

[poadeleted20]

Is it conceivable they could taxi around the airport and never leave the ground then?

Yes, it is conceivable.

 

[Tom-D]

Doesn't matter. Under Federal law, the FAA has the authority to reexamine any certificate holder at any time. An enforcement action would require proof of a violation (albeit only to the standard of "more likely than not"), but no such proof is necessary to order a reexamination. Ain't no way around this one, with or without proof of the incident.

So then file on the rat, see if he likes going for a ride.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Just out of curiosity, how far was the bush from the taxiway centerline? The airport owner has a responsiblity to maintain an object free area that, for the smallest airports, extends 44.5 feet from the centerline. (AC 150/5300-13) If the airport is designed to handle larger than design group I airplanes, that is, larger than airplanes with less than 49-foot wingspan, then the bush had to be even farther out. (If the airport has an ALP you can look there to find what design group category it is.)

This won't get the 709 ride off your back, but it might get the instructor off your case if the airport was not being maintained to standards.

 

[poadeleted20]

So then file on the rat, see if he likes going for a ride.

Sounds like you're suggesting retaliation by filing a false report with a Federal official. You read 18 USC 1001 lately? That's a good way to end up in a Federal penitentiary for a couple of years and have a criminal felony record for the rest of your life.

 

[Henning]

I am a new private pilot. Several months ago I had a minor mishap, I accidentally hit a bush while taxiing. I thought something stuck on the rudder pedal, because the airplane stopped turning.The bushes were close to the taxiway too. But stupid mistake, I learned to be extra careful. Everyone was pretty nice to me, but I still felt horribly stupid. So anyway, over the summer, the flight school changed hands, my instructor left, new instructor came. New instructor and I did not hit it off, he gives me the creeps, and I think he's sexist. He doesn't want to let me rent there anymore because six months ago I hit a bush. So I went to another airport with a new instructor to start instrument training. First day up with new instructor, I heard the other instructor on the radio, and I'm sure he heard me. A few days after that, I got a phone call from the FAA that someone complained about me and the bush incident, and they were investigating. Now I have the joy of a 709 ride. I know I have to do this, but I'm pretty ****ed off that this other instructor seems to have it in for me. Any thoughts?

Yep, wait till the flight school is as busy as it gets, walk in and confront him face to face in front of everyone (best if the boss is there) and ask as loudly as you can "Hey you prick dfid you really call the feds on me for taxiing into a bush you low life mother f----er!?!" That will end his career in your area. As for the 709 ride, don't sweat it. You passed the checkride once already. Good chance it will consist of you taxiing the examiner around and displaying that you do in fact posses the skills necessary to taxi a plane.

 

[Henning]

Is it conceivable they could taxi around the airport and never leave the ground then?

Yep, I knew a guy whose whole 709 ride was done in a classroom over systems because he had an incident over fuel management and another guy who had to work W&B problems.

 

[Henning]

You must insure you are big enough to kick his a-- well enough that he won't file charges.

It's better to use other people to take care of those types of matters. A $20 rock in most places will get the job done.

 

[Tom-D]

Sounds like you're suggesting retaliation by filing a false report with a Federal official. You read 18 USC 1001 lately? That's a good way to end up in a Federal penitentiary for a couple of years and have a criminal felony record for the rest of your life.

ever know any CFI that was perfect? Present company excepted of course all it really takes is a phone call to raise the attention of the FAA and place the subject under the microscope.

 

[Telemakhos]

Sorry this happened to you. It does smack of sexism.
One has to be a real D-bag pilot to call the feds on another pilot, especially for something like prop-striking a bush.
With the number of pilots dropping all the time and too few new people coming into our ranks, the last thing we need is that type of chucklehead anywhere near an FBO.
Someone said that karma will catch up with him; I think that's right on.
God, I hate guys like that.

 

[Everskyward]

So if he was your instructor at one time you could tell the feds he didn't instruct you properly about not taxiing into bushes. <jk>

I'm sure this guy has, or will develop, a reputation so hopefully it will backfire on him. Accidentally hitting a bush is not that great a sin for a new private pilot. I know a number of much more advanced pilots who have hit their wings on various things without getting a ride from the feds.

 

[Steve Foley]

I got the letter in the mail, two days after speaking with the safety inspector. I don't know what their investigation consisted of, but it was apparently pretty quick.

I suspect the conversation was the investigation. If you admitted hitting the bush, the investigation was over.

 

[sba55]

I'm sure this guy has, or will develop, a reputation so hopefully it will backfire on him. Accidentally hitting a bush is not that great a sin for a new private pilot. I know a number of much more advanced pilots who have hit their wings on various things without getting a ride from the feds.

Yeah, really, this does seem completely over the top. Especially because hitting a bush seems like a very easy mistake to make.....

-Felix

 

[AuntPeggy]

So if he was your instructor at one time you could tell the feds he didn't instruct you properly about not taxiing into bushes. <jk>

I'm sure this guy has, or will develop, a reputation so hopefully it will backfire on him. Accidentally hitting a bush is not that great a sin for a new private pilot. I know a number of much more advanced pilots who have hit their wings on various things without getting a ride from the feds.

+1

 

[Unregistered]

So if he was your instructor at one time you could tell the feds he didn't instruct you properly about not taxiing into bushes. <jk>

I'm sure this guy has, or will develop, a reputation so hopefully it will backfire on him. Accidentally hitting a bush is not that great a sin for a new private pilot. I know a number of much more advanced pilots who have hit their wings on various things without getting a ride from the feds.

This person was never my instructor, nor have I ever flown with him. He does not know my flying ability. My instructor left, this new person came in. We never hit it off well, I suspect my gender has something to do with it, but of course I can't prove it. I called my instructor about this problem, and he was upset about it, but there was nothing he could do, as he is not here anymore.

Thanks for the kind words. I decided to use this opportunity to practice and improve, and make the inspector happy. I think the instructor who reported me would like nothing more than for me to quit, and I refuse to do that. I can't wait to tell him I've made friends with the nice inspector.

 

[brcase]

I recently worked with a pilot in prep for a 709 ride for a landing incident.

Short version is she went out to practice a few take-offs and landings before the examiner showed up. The examiner showed up early and wanted her do the Take-offs and landing. She was done before she started.

Brian

 

[TMetzinger]

If an insurance claim was filed, that might have gone into a database that the feds checked once the "bush flying" was brought to their attention. I wouldn't waste time on the miserable person who might have turned you in. Karma is especially alive and well in a small community like aviation.

 

[Unregistered]

If an insurance claim was filed, that might have gone into a database that the feds checked once the "bush flying" was brought to their attention. I wouldn't waste time on the miserable person who might have turned you in. Karma is especially alive and well in a small community like aviation.

I dont think so. I was specifically told that someone had just brought it to their attention. "Someone".

 

[Doggtyred]

I dont think so. I was specifically told that someone had just brought it to their attention. "Someone".

When you get lemons, make lemonade. Prep for this like you would any other checkride, get a few hours of practice or instruction in, practice taxiing, take offs, landings, control of the aircraft with attention to detail -

Dont taxi faster than you can walk. Place controls correctly for wind conditions while taxiing.. use your checklist.. nail the speeds... be able to do steep turns and any other maneuver to PPL spec. All the little things that show that you are SAFE and DETAIL ORIENTED.

The purpose of the 709 re-examination is to ensure safety and minimal competence. If you can do that, its a non-event.

As for the (suspected) referring instructor - you cant please everyone. I've had my run-ins with that type of person, who makes inappropriate decisions based on incomplete facts and gossip. Funny thing is, their flight school went belly up - people dont pay good money to tolerate that BS.. Karma's a *****.

 

[Steve Foley]

people dont pay good money to tolerate that BS.. Karma's a *****.

I know a person who called the feds on someone. It may or may not have been justified. In my case, it doesn't matter. I simply stay as far away from this person as possible.

That person is now running a business that needs customers to survive. I suspect that more customers would patronize the business had it not been for that phone call.

 

[SkyHog]

I dont think so. I was specifically told that someone had just brought it to their attention. "Someone".

Honestly, if I were you, I'd call the bastard out here, so we know who to avoid.

I certainly don't want to give any money to someone like that, and I'd appreciate a heads up.

 

[wabower]

But hitting on one is perfectly acceptable weekend behavior?

Yeah, really, this does seem completely over the top. Especially because hitting a bush seems like a very easy mistake to make.....

-Felix

 

[flyersfan31]

Yep, wait till the flight school is as busy as it gets, walk in and confront him face to face in front of everyone (best if the boss is there) and ask as loudly as you can "Hey you prick dfid you really call the feds on me for taxiing into a bush you low life mother f----er!?!" That will end his career in your area. As for the 709 ride, don't sweat it. You passed the checkride once already. Good chance it will consist of you taxiing the examiner around and displaying that you do in fact posses the skills necessary to taxi a plane.

I like this solution

 

[poadeleted20]

ever know any CFI that was perfect? Present company excepted of course all it really takes is a phone call to raise the attention of the FAA and place the subject under the microscope.

If the caller is one who was recently investigated as a result of a complaint by the target of the caller, that microscope will go both ways. And walking into an FBO and delivering a public, foul-mouthed tirade is going to have more negative impact on the tirader than the target of the tirade.

 

[gprellwitz]

There are circumstances in which calling the feds on a fellow flieer are perfectly justified and serve to save lives and property, and there are cases in which it is a patent power play, meant only for self-aggrandizement. This sounds like the latter. The feds, for all their faults tend to play fair. Make a respectable showing, and you have little to fear. Don't worry, capricious use of federal investigative resources will quickly backfire on them. In other words, KARMA!

 

[DutchessFlier]

Don't worry about the 709 ride....in one of the previous posts, that poster (not the OP I believe) mentioned those fateful words "prop strike" but you have not indicated that in your postings. So, was it a prop strike on the bush? If it was, then the incident has to be reported to the insurance company, with the pssibility of an engine teardown, and if the $$$$ are high enough, then it is reported as an accident...but for goodness sake don't sweat the ride!