pro-rata share (revisited)

kath

kath

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Katherine
Hi, all,
It's time for another "compensation" scenario.

The scenario:
Pilot A is a private pilot, who rents from an FBO which has a "daily minimum" as many FBO's do. (Mine, for instance, will charge 3 hours minimum Hobbs time if you rent a plane for more than 4 hours of a day.) B is a passenger.

A: "Hey, I'm going to East Podunk this Saturday for breakfast, wanna come along and share the cost?"
B: "Sure!"
They fly to East Podunk (which is only a half-hour away) and enjoy a lovely breakfast. As they're paying up, B says:
B: "This place is awesome! Let's stay here all day and see the town."
A: "No, if we want to do that, I have to extend the reservation on the plane, and that'll put me over the 4-hour limit. They'll charge me a three hour minimum even though we'll only have flown for one hour. I don't want to pay for hours I don't fly!"
B: "That's okay, I'll pay for the extra charges."

Is this...... a) legal, or b) illegal?

Line from the FAR's....
(2) Not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with a passenger, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenses, or aircraft rental fees.

It seems that the pilot could reason thusly: the "daily minimum" is not an "operating expense" for the airplane, it's just a stupid FBO policy. Nor does the pilot gain any free logable flying time, since he only gets to log the one hour (regardless of how many hours the FBO charges him for). The pilot is paying his pro-rata share for the one hour which he actually flies.

On the other side of the argument, the stupid FBO policy is still a form of "aircraft rental fee" and therefore the passenger can't just pay up the difference. The logging issue is irrelevant; the pilot doesn't "log" the landing fee at East Podunk either, but that is part of the expense.

My vote is b). illegal.

Thoughts?

--Kath
 
What I don't get is this scenario:

A few weeks later, B. drops by your house and says, "Kath, you're a great gal, I'd like to give you a gift."...and hands you a stack of bills.

Totally unconnected.
 
It's b) illegal because you "held out" not because of the 3 vs 4 hours.

You can't ask someone to go with you and share expenses. Nor can you be asked to go and share expenses.

However, if by some bizarre chance both of you needed to go to the other field without being asked if the other wanted to go, then you can split the whole amount. You paid for 4 hours, they other person can pay 2.
 
BillG said:
Uh, yes you can.
Click to expand...

Not from what I've read. Once you ask someone to go with you, you no longer have a common purpose.
 
The common purpose is breakfast at East Podunk.
My understanding is,
You can ask someone to accompany you and share expenses (as long as the flight was your idea).
You can't share expenses, though, if someone else asks you to go somewhere you weren't planning on going already.

--Kath
 
Last edited:
kath said:
The common purpose is breakfast at East Podunk.
My understanding is,
You can ask someone to accompany you and share expenses (as long as the flight was your idea).
You can't share expenses, though, if someone else asks you to go somewhere you weren't planning on going already.

--Kath
Click to expand...

You may be right. It is after all the FAA. Probably written in the same vein as "I can get my commercial, and you can ask me to fly me in your plane and pay me for it, but I can't do so in my own plane."
 
N2212R said:
Not from what I've read. Once you ask someone to go with you, you no longer have a common purpose.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make sense though (not that the FARs do in general) - you ARE allowed to invite people to go flying with you and share expenses. Is this an academic question or real life question? If a friend calls me and asks if I want to go out for lunch and I fly and we split expenses there is not realistically going to be a problem.
 
BillG said:
That doesn't make sense though (not that the FARs do in general) - you ARE allowed to invite people to go flying with you and share expenses. Is this an academic question or real life question? If a friend calls me and asks if I want to go out for lunch and I fly and we split expenses there is not realistically going to be a problem.
Click to expand...

It's really more an academic problem. If your friend never complains to the FAA, it will never be an issue. However, by the strictest letter of the law it's part 135.
 
Ed's point is very well taken;

What needs to be discussed is how the flight is paid for before takeoff. When I was a renter long ago; I never asked people for money to pay for the flight. The only time people helped me out was cost to be shared was prearranged before the flight took place. In other word the FBO got one check for the cost of the plane and that was from me. When I flew a commercial or charters, I never saw the money change hands. I was just the driver or the pilot and got paid by the charter outfit. It worked and was very simple.

John
 
To be squeaky clean, beyond reproach, totally unquestionably legal, the way it has to work is:

Pilot (in passing): BTW, I'm flying to XYZ tomorrow.
Other: Can I come along?
Pilot: Sure.
Other: Great, and I'd be happy to chip in my share of the expenses.
Pilot: OK, but I can't accept more than your pro-rata share of the direct expenses of the flight.

Anything else is open to interpretation. Of course, if nobody complains, nobody's going to be interpreting, either. So don't take any complainers flying unless you don't take any money from them..
 
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