Privacy & Returns

[gprellwitz]

Okay,
I decided to be good and start doing the backups I should have been doing all along. A couple of weeks ago, I went and picked up an external hard drive to backup my PC. I started with the new PC that doesn't have a whole lot of data on it yet, but will also be doing the other shortly. Or that was the plan.

The drive has totally cr@pped out. I plug it in to the USB port and it's not even recognized. It was working fine, I moved it and the power cable came out, and it stopped working. Different USB ports, different computers, different cables. Nada.

So I'm left with this hard drive with not a whole lot but some personal data on it still under warranty. I have no way to get the data off, since the thing isn't recognized. I could probably open it up and pull out the hard drive and hook it up to an SATA connector, but that would void the warranty. (The drive is purported to be a Barracuda: http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=b9df99f4fa74c010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD)

I'm not too worried about not being able to recover the data, because there's little there I need or don't still have. However, I'm concerned about the privacy issues. What happens to the returned units. I suspect that this is a trivial connector problem that will be easily fixed, so it'll likely be repaired, re-imaged, and sold as a refurb. However, I'm worried that the data would still be recoverable. Am I just being paranoid? Should I just eat the cost of the drive and not use the warranty?

What say you all?

 

[TMetzinger]

Given the cost of the drive, versus the cost of exposing information - I recommend you open it up, try to fix it (or send it to me and I'll do it), and if the disk works but the enclosure is fried , you can buy another USB enclosure for $30.00 and start anew. Worst case (disk is bad), you still have control of your data.

These USB enclosures are NOT sophisticated - most of the price difference between buying and building your own goes into the bundled software, and the rest is profit.

 

[jesse]

Can you open it up without them knowing? Basically is there a sticker that prevents you from opening it? If you can open it up try putting it into your computer to see if it works.

Is it making a clicking noise?

 

[gprellwitz]

Can you open it up without them knowing? Basically is there a sticker that prevents you from opening it? If you can open it up try putting it into your computer to see if it works.

Is it making a clicking noise?

Yes, there's a sticker over one of the screws that says "If broken warranty void". It's not making a clicking sound. It makes the normal drive spun up sound when power is applied, and the power light comes on when it's plugged into the USB port. So power is getting to the drive from the power supply and to the light from the USB. The fact that it is totally not recognized by the computer at all when it's plugged in makes me think that the drive is fine; it is the USB connection and electronics that has the problems.

I'm planning to call Maxtor (Seagate) Monday to find out what they claim to do with the hard drives when they come in.

 

[mikea]

FIRST, if you haven't done so, take the drive out of the USB enclosure and try it directly connected to your IDE bus. If it has any life you should be able to get data off it.

I would boot with Knoppix or a rescue CD and see if the device is there at all to Linux. If Linux sees the device you can do a DD to copy the blocks off with your data.

I had an external drive get broken when my "helper" during my move knocked it over while it was running. I have to try the above. I have some backups on it.

 

[gprellwitz]

FIRST, if you haven't done so, take the drive out of the USB enclosure and try it directly connected to your IDE bus. If it has any life you should be able to get data off it.

I would boot with Knoppix or a rescue CD and see if the device is there at all to Linux. If Linux sees the device you can do a DD to copy the blocks off with your data.

I had an external drive get broken when my "helper" during my move knocked it over while it was running. I have to try the above. I have some backups on it.

Mike, the issue is that as soon as I take it out of the enclosure the warranty is void.

Warranty is void if the SeaShield cover or top cover, or any seal or label is removed or damaged, if it is improperly packaged, or if the drive experiences shock in excess of its Gs rating.

My concern isn't getting at the data but being comfortable that no one else will be able to. If I could remove it from the enclosure, I could ensure that.

Here's what they say:

What Will Seagate Do? If Seagate authorizes a product to be returned to Seagate or an authorized service provider, Seagate will replace the drive without charge with a functionally equivalent replacement product. Seagate may replace your product with a product that was previously used, repaired and tested to meet Seagate specifications. Seagate will pay to ship the replacement drive to you. By sending product for replacement, ownership of the original product will be transferred to Seagate. Seagate will not return original drives to consumers. Data recovery is not covered under this warranty and is not part of the repair or exchange process. If you would like data recovery performed on your drive, it is available from Seagate as a separate service for an additional charge. Seagate warrants that repaired or replaced products are covered for the greater of either the remainder of the original product warranty or 90 days.

In other words, they'll send me a drive from someone else that they've low-level formatted, fix my drive, low level format it, and send it on to someone else.

A single low level format won't make it impossible for others to access the data. OTOH, it probably won't be too likely that they'll happen to send my drive to someone else who's going to be interested enough to try to recover the data off my drive and try doing something with it. While possible to read the data, it's not trivial, either, so I think the odds are in my favor.

I think, though, that in the future I'll start by encrypting all data on the drive before writing it there.

I love how they tell you to back up your hard drive (it IS a backup, folks!) and that you should attempt to recover your data before sending it in for a warranty exchange. Of course, attempting to recover the data generally involves removing the drive from the enclosure, which voids the warranty!

Argh!!!!

 

[mikea]

..I'm planning to call Maxtor (Seagate) Monday to find out what they claim to do with the hard drives when they come in.

Therein lies the problem. The drive may be a Maxtor and not a Seagate.

What they'll do is send you a blank drive. I'm certain they won't offer to recover the data.

Then they'll sell your drive as factory refurbished for some guy in Russia to have at your data.

 

[ScottM]

FIRST, if you haven't done so, take the drive out of the USB enclosure and try it directly connected to your IDE bus. If it has any life you should be able to get data off it.

This worked for me. I tried one of those enclosure but it did not work. So with Mike's advise I added the drive to the spare IDE port and was able to see it and import all the data!!!

 

[RJM62]

Before you break out a screwdriver...

Does the computer recognize that something was plugged into it? I'm wondering if the bad shutdown (when the power cord came out) corrupted the filesystem so badly that Windows can't read it.

Once a removable device is known to Windows, Windows may not say very much when it's plugged in again. Most of the fanfare only happens the first time the device is plugged in. So it's possible that Windows actually does see the device, but not the filesystem.

In that scenario, Windows would recognize the hardware drive (for example, in Administrative Tools / Computer Management / Storage, and in the Device Manager), but it would not show up in My Computer because Windows wouldn't be able to read the filesystem and would no longer consider it a valid drive.

I've come across quite a few cases where this was true. In cases where the physical drive is intact and healthy but the filesystem is so corrupt that Windows can't read it, I almost always can read the drive in Linux. In most cases, the goal is to recover the data. But in yours, it would be to destroy the data (if that's what you want to do) before sending it out.

However, if it's a filesystem problem, you may not want to send it out. If Windows sees the hardware drive but not the filesystem, then you can always just format the drive from within Windows and start over again. You would do that from Administrative Tools / Computer Management / Storage.

So I'm with Mike on this one. First I'd check to see if Windows recognized the physical hard drive but not the filesystem, and next I would try reading it in Knoppix, Mepis, Ubuntu, or any of the other dozen or so "live" Linux distros out there these days. They all have USB Storage support, so I wouldn't even pop the case for the time being.

(As an aside... these sort of failures are a big part of why I've been switching clients to secure online backup.)

Rich

 

[gprellwitz]

Before you break out a screwdriver...

Does the computer recognize that something was plugged into it? I'm wondering if the bad shutdown (when the power cord came out) corrupted the filesystem so badly that Windows can't read it.

No, even going into Computer Manager doesn't show that Windows recognizes anything is attached.

Once a removable device is known to Windows, Windows may not say very much when it's plugged in again. Most of the fanfare only happens the first time the device is plugged in. So it's possible that Windows actually does see the device, but not the filesystem.

In that scenario, Windows would recognize the hardware drive (for example, in Administrative Tools / Computer Management / Storage, and in the Device Manager), but it would not show up in My Computer because Windows wouldn't be able to read the filesystem and would no longer consider it a valid drive.

I've come across quite a few cases where this was true. In cases where the physical drive is intact and healthy but the filesystem is so corrupt that Windows can't read it, I almost always can read the drive in Linux. In most cases, the goal is to recover the data. But in yours, it would be to destroy the data (if that's what you want to do) before sending it out.

However, if it's a filesystem problem, you may not want to send it out. If Windows sees the hardware drive but not the filesystem, then you can always just format the drive from within Windows and start over again. You would do that from Administrative Tools / Computer Management / Storage.

So I'm with Mike on this one. First I'd check to see if Windows recognized the physical hard drive but not the filesystem, and next I would try reading it in Knoppix, Mepis, Ubuntu, or any of the other dozen or so "live" Linux distros out there these days. They all have USB Storage support, so I wouldn't even pop the case for the time being.

(As an aside... these sort of failures are a big part of why I've been switching clients to secure online backup.)

Rich

I should have a USB thumb drive with a bootable Linux distro on it somewhere. If not, I'm pretty sure I still have a copy downloaded. I may try it tomorrow night. At this point, though, I'm pretty confident that I don't have much to worry about based on the odds, even if I just send it back as is.

 

[wsuffa]

Grant,

Were it me (and it's not), if the drive is dead-dead, I'd just write it off rather than trying to get my money back and have my data end up in the hands of who-knows..... It may be that the drive is OK, but the USB interface is toast. Or that the drive controller is bad (but can be swapped with a good one by someone of evil intent).

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

my guess is
techs don't have time to look on HD's in most cases.
don't care what is on them.
most anything the average non-CIA citizen has is not of any use to them anyway.

That covers 99%, but there is that last one percent....

 

[RJM62]

If the drive winds up being dead, then I would say eat the loss, much as I hate to let the manufacturer off the hook.

I went to a conference a few years ago where this FBI guy explained how much information persons of malicious intent can get from even the most seemingly trivial documents. For the hundred or so bucks that replacing the drive would cost, it's not worth the risk, IMHO.

Rich

 

[EdFred]

Get a 200 gauss magnet and have fun.

 

[gprellwitz]

Well, it's a moot point now. I decided I'd open it up and try to delete the data, then maybe use the drive for something else. Well, I put it in my desktop (It's a Seagate 500GB Barracuda with SATA attachment), only to find that it just totally doesn't respond! The computer recognized that there's a device attached, but seems unable to figure out what it might be. Of course, by this time I've cracked the external enclosure open, so the warranty is void and I'm left with an expensive paperweight.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Get a 200 gauss magnet and have fun.

Ooo, fun...

Well, it's a moot point now. I decided I'd open it up and try to delete the data, then maybe use the drive for something else. Well, I put it in my desktop (It's a Seagate 500GB Barracuda with SATA attachment), only to find that it just totally doesn't respond! The computer recognized that there's a device attached, but seems unable to figure out what it might be. Of course, by this time I've cracked the external enclosure open, so the warranty is void and I'm left with an expensive paperweight.

Yeah, but now you can tear the drive apart and get the magnets out of it!

 

[gprellwitz]

Yeah, but now you can tear the drive apart and get the magnets out of it!

Funny thing is that I had that exact thought just before I read this. Of course, I might contact Seagate and see if they'll still honor the warranty on the Barracuda drive that's embedded in the Maxtor enclosure. Worth a call.