Precautionary Off-airport Landing- Good Article

[SCCutler]

Most recent AvWeb (I know, I am not supposed to read that anymore, but occasionally still do...) has a good article (Rick Durden) on precautionary off-airfield landings, and the thing that stuck with me is his observation that many VFR-into-IMC crashes (most, likely) were preceded by the pilot flying past numerous adequate emergency landing sites, while trying to get to an airport.

Good food for thought. Discussion?

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191533-1.html

 

[tonycondon]

Very good article, i loved it. Stuff us instructors (me included) need to start teaching. Also, read the scud running article that is linked in that one. very interesting.

He implicated that soybeans would be preferable to tall corn, i would disagree. Yes corn will beat the crap out of your plane and make it tough to get the plane out, but...
at a safety meeting a couple years ago, our safety counselor from the FSDO noted that every engine out landing in soybean fields that year had resulted in airplane upside down. When fully developed, its very viny and will grab your wheels. When its short, i would take it over corn.
Moral of the story: know the crops/terrain you're flying over, itll save your life.

Why aren't we supposed to read avweb?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Yeah, whats bad about avweb? I never listened to the warnings of what rags are not to be read anyway, I still learn stuff from Flying. There. Its out.

 

[gismo]

He implicated that soybeans would be preferable to tall corn, i would disagree. Yes corn will beat the crap out of your plane and make it tough to get the plane out, but...
at a safety meeting a couple years ago, our safety counselor from the FSDO noted that every engine out landing in soybean fields that year had resulted in airplane upside down. When fully developed, its very viny and will grab your wheels. When its short, i would take it over corn.
Moral of the story: know the crops/terrain you're flying over, itll save your life.

I have to admit that I have great difficulty distinguishing crops from altitude, and once I'm low enough to identify the vegetation on an emergency landing, it's a bit too late to chose another field. Of course for a precautionary landing the posibilities are better. You'd think that living in the middle of America's "Breadbasket" I'd be better at this, but this is one skill that eludes me. Maybe if I used binoculars?

 

[fgcason]

I think a major contributing factor about being boresighted on runways is that people don't realize what most of those fields actually look like from ground level. What they actually look like, as in stop your car, get out, hop over the fence and walk the field. If the owner drives tractors on it, the surface has to be semi useable even if it would tear up some airplanes. I've looked at many fields all over the country on roadtrips or while goofing off -- with the owners permission of course. It's fairly easy to do. City people with the spendy luxuary hobby homes away from the city are one thing (hint: avoid them completely) but the farmers and actual country types are usually very cooperative if you politely explain why you want to wander around their field for a while. You'll also get to meet some of the nicest most honest down to earth good folk you'll ever have the privilege of meeting. Anyway, some fields turn out to be minefields (survivable but would likely to tear up the plane) however many aren't much worse than a poorly maintained grass strip. Most of the surfaces themselves would bounce you around quite a bit while stopping but everything will pretty much be intact, if not slightly bent or dented afterward. The crops have to be considered carefully though. Consider the results of flairing full stall onto the 8ft tops of corn stalks for instance. IMHO even the bad fields are not a mandatory death sentence if you touch down at stall speed under control.


"Old-fashioned, rectangular bales are rarely seen any more, but if you do, there may be so many in the field that it's tough to find an open lane for landing."

I don't know about that comment in the article. If it's an open field with minimal obstructions the rows can be fairly straight. It would really depend on the field itself, the hay density and how they raked it. When we use to hay on the farm, the bail rows were wide enough to get a truck comfortably down between the rows with a couple feet to spare on either side so they can be loaded. The wings would be over the bails however at least on our farm the rows were far enough apart for the gear on the Cherokee. Very tight but doable if you really had to. The bails are 30-40 lbs so even if you hit one, you'll walk away. It's something to consider.

 

[tonycondon]

I have to admit that I have great difficulty distinguishing crops from altitude, and once I'm low enough to identify the vegetation on an emergency landing, it's a bit too late to chose another field. Of course for a precautionary landing the posibilities are better. You'd think that living in the middle of America's "Breadbasket" I'd be better at this, but this is one skill that eludes me. Maybe if I used binoculars?

After thinking about it, i usually look at the edges of the field, or at the fencelines, you can see the height of the crop there. Of course, corn is easy when its tasseling. Soybeans are usually a darker green than corn. Like fgcason said, i also spent a fair amount of time around this stuff when younger, that would help you lance.

With no direct experience at it, you can take this with a grain of salt, but i think the hardest thing about landing in a corn field would be remembering that the ground is 7-8 feet below the tops. Basically you would have to just fly it in. trying to "land" in the tops would result in a pretty rough arrival. The corn will slow you down fast. I wouldn't want to drag just the wheels in it for too long to prevent nosing over. Maybe some of you other guys have direct knowledge.

I do know of a glider that went in corn up in fairibault, mn after a low altitude tow failure. actually received little damage, worst part was getting it out, damaged a lot of corn. of course it doesn't have all the crap (wheels) hanging out that would flip it over.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Most recent AvWeb (I know, I am not supposed to read that anymore, but occasionally still do...) has a good article (Rick Durden) on precautionary off-airfield landings, and the thing that stuck with me is his observation that many VFR-into-IMC crashes (most, likely) were preceded by the pilot flying past numerous adequate emergency landing sites, while trying to get to an airport.

Good food for thought. Discussion?

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191533-1.html

They're generally both good articles.

My CFIs almost always did one or more of some kind of engine out sim or engine out sim to actual LDG at the original field or to some other airport from higher, apparently more opportune altitudes -doesn't everyone these days?

The best I've been able to do in actual flight for students is to sim an engine fail on short upwind after launching from a short, paved strip at an altitude too low to make it back via an attempted 180. Sometimes I'll pull the engine power off really low, where there's no question of LDG somewhere ahead and other times at around 500 AGL so they have to decide if they're gonna try to 180 & land on the ~1700 feet RWY with a tailwind and probably endure an over-run, which is usually a fairly safe emergency option.

By the time I lay this on them, they've already had a few flights and expect to break off the approach at a safe height AGL. I like the low altitude sims the best because then I just keep saying to the neoflights "land it in a field this time... " They're shocked but we're going down to land anyway. The thing is, there's two little used, private grass strips totally camoflaged in the green fields about 3/4 mile from the threshold they just launched from. As they line up on very short final they sometimes but not always see that it's an actual airstrip and have thusfar always landed successfully.

It is quite a learning experience and the closest safe sim to the real thing while in actual flight that I've been able to come up with for them without going to bushwheels and actual off airport sites.

 

[SteveR]

Great article IMO, and something I think about very often after having two engine outs in less than 200hrs TT (one was a rental & one was a buddy's plane with a botched overhaul). I used to have the mindset that it couldn't happen to me, now I'm a firm believer, and I'm always conscious of the wind direction & terrain around me. It makes me nervous to fly over forrests.

My plane isn't fast, but it can also land in absurdly short distances. At a fly-in I'm going to in March, the short landing record is around 147' in a Cessna 170. I'm pretty confident I can easily beat that if I have a 10mph headwind. It makes a forced landing, or precautionary landing, MUCH safer if you can touch down at 25mph groundspeed. Not to mention I probably land on grass 80% of the time. Every flight I probably spend 10% of my time deciding which field is better, and how I would manuever to it for landing if I had to. I also regularly practice engine out procedures, and have gotten proficient at making the runway from 500' AGL at the numbers on downwind in cruise.

One more engine out in the next 5,000hrs and I'll probably take up checkers or something extremely safe and boring.

 

[etsisk]

Most recent AvWeb (I know, I am not supposed to read that anymore, but occasionally still do...)

Yeah, what's wrong with AvWeb???

feeling like I'm outta the loop, here . . .

 

[Everskyward]

feeling like I'm outta the loop, here . . .

You're not the only one...

 

[tonycondon]

They're generally both good articles.

My CFIs almost always did one or more of some kind of engine out sim or engine out sim to actual LDG at the original field or to some other airport from higher, apparently more opportune altitudes -doesn't everyone these days?

Yes we simulate engine out approaches to fields, etc. Of course, the FAA doesnt want us CFI's taking the practice below 500 AGL, which is where all the important stuff happens, like recognizing terrain and wind conditions, and being affected by low level wind shear/gradient.

The best I've been able to do in actual flight for students is to sim an engine fail on short upwind after launching from a short, paved, public strip at an altitude too low to make it back via an attempted 180. Sometimes I'll pull the engine power off really low, where there's no question of LDG somewhere ahead and other times at around 500 AGL so they have to decide if they're gonna try to 180 & land on the ~1700 feet RWY with a tailwind and probably endure an over-run, which is usually a fairly safe emergency option.

By the time I lay this on them, they've had a few flights and expect to break off the approach at a safe height AGL. I like the low altitude sims the best because then I just keep saying to the neoflights "land it in a field this time... " They're shocked but we're going down to land anyway. The thing is, there's two little used, private grass strips totally camoflaged in the green fields about 3/4 mile from the threshold they just launched from. As they line up on very short final they sometimes but not always see that it's an actual airstrip and have thusfar always landed successfully.

Be happy you have this option. Many FBO's insurance policies don't allow landings on grass, let alone private fields, my last one was that way. Made it frustrating trying to teach this kind of stuff. Had some nice farmers strips in the area.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Yes we simulate engine out approaches to fields, etc. Of course, the FAA doesnt want us CFI's taking the practice below 500 AGL, which is where all the important stuff happens, like recognizing terrain and wind conditions, and being affected by low level wind shear/gradient.

Be happy you have this option. Many FBO's insurance policies don't allow landings on grass, let alone private fields, my last one was that way. Made it frustrating trying to teach this kind of stuff. Had some nice farmers strips in the area.

I am indeed very happy to have found this configuation available! It is quite fortunate.

I like to do a few breaking off the sim approach above the FAR's 500 AGL so the flight students see first hand that things don't always go as planned or as they've seen in the past flights.

Yep the ol' financial insurance gamble for aviation. Fortunately the FAA doesn't require insurance to fly an airplane -or do they now? I hope they don't! ...and never do.

 

[NC Pilot]

Yes we simulate engine out approaches to fields, etc. Of course, the FAA doesnt want us CFI's taking the practice below 500 AGL, which is where all the important stuff happens, like recognizing terrain and wind conditions, and being affected by low level wind shear/gradient.

But, you can simulate engine out approaches all the way to the ground at an airport. While it doesn't help with terrain you do get to work with wind, etc.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

He implicated that soybeans would be preferable to tall corn, i would disagree. Yes corn will beat the crap out of your plane and make it tough to get the plane out, but...
at a safety meeting a couple years ago, our safety counselor from the FSDO noted that every engine out landing in soybean fields that year had resulted in airplane upside down. When fully developed, its very viny and will grab your wheels. When its short, i would take it over corn.
Moral of the story: know the crops/terrain you're flying over, itll save your life.

Why aren't we supposed to read avweb?

Went down engine out in some ~18" high viny stuff once and with full yoke back, it just sheared off the T182RG's nosewheel instead of a flip, thank God.

 

[SCCutler]

Why aren't we supposed to read avweb?

That was a veiled reference to the fact that Belvoir owns AvWeb, and I am showing my allegiance to Ken Ibold, who used to be the Editor of Belvoir's aviation safety publication.

I was just kidding; I did not mean to offend anyone. Maybe it's me who's "out of the loop"!

===

For me, the biggest message was not that you should be able to spot an appropriate spot to land in an emergency (that's been drilled plenty of times), but rather, that there can be reasons other than a dead engine to consider making the call.

 

[tonycondon]

Dave, thank god is right!
NCPilot, of course, i really think it is silly to expect someone to be able to land in a field when all they have done is approaches broke off at 500 AGL.
Spike, ahhh i see now. forgot about that.

 

[Lance F]

For quite a few years I was a very active cross country and competition glider pilot. I've landed in bunches of fields, including corn and soybeans. Never so much as put a scratch on the glider.

Best is a recently harvested field. Next would be one just planted or with the crop only beginning to come up. Once you get to a tall crop, it would be a toss up IMO; take the field most convenient to a road. Last would be a pasture. There's a reason no crop is there, like rocks, tree stumps, holes, uneven surfaces, creeks, etc.

More important than corn vs. soybeans are obstructions to the approach like trees and wires, wind direction and slope of the ground. Not a good idea to land downhill. As the ground falls away from under you, you may not touch down until you hit something.

 

[tonycondon]

agree lance. with a precautionary landing vs. forced engine out it is much easier to manage obstructions. also in the glider you dont have to worry about the landing gear catching in the crops and flipping you over, kinda nice. landing gear up would be similar.
What made you stop flying gliders?

 

[jesse]

Dave, thank god is right!
NCPilot, of course, i really think it is silly to expect someone to be able to land in a field when all they have done is approaches broke off at 500 AGL.
Spike, ahhh i see now. forgot about that.

I'm not sure. But I don't think there is anything that says you can't go lower than 500 feet. As you are in a "sparsely populated area" and "in those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure".

I do know that my CFI had me go down below tree level SEVERAL times during primary training with engine outs.

My examiner also had me go down to where I was on the deck.

As far as landing in a field before flying into IMC, when my dad was 19 he flew his CallAir to Florida to pull banners. Enroute he encounted IMC and landed in some field..don't remember which state.. He said he just walked into town and was stuck there for three days. Of course this was a taildragger and an agplane with a cropduster as the pilot. It's going to be a slightly different situation with your average PPL and Cessna.

It's a tough call really. You are probably going to bust the Cessna up, but more then likely live. If you get too brave and venture into IMC, you may just kill yourself and destroy the Cessna.

Really if I was in this situation in a Cessna I'd climb up..and up.. turn on the autopilot if there was one, and tell ATC that I need help. Hopefully they could get me to VFR....In the summer.

If it was winter..with icing...I'd just pick the best looking field I could see and try to drop the wheels inbetween the rows in the field at the slowest possible airspeed.

..If you get into a situation to where you need to do any of this, you messed up SEVERAL times already.

 

[NC Pilot]

NCPilot, of course, i really think it is silly to expect someone to be able to land in a field when all they have done is approaches broke off at 500 AGL.

Do you break off the approach at 500' when the power is pulled in the pattern at the airport? My point is that you can practice landing all the way to the ground, just not off field. I think it is somewhat silly to not allow a closer approach to an off field landing. After all, the if the power doesn't come back at 500' the end result will not be alwhole lot different than if the power didn't come back at 50'. But, having said that, power off landings can still be practiced at the airport, just pull the power as you approach the airport and see if a sucessfull landing can be performed.

 

[Lance F]

...What made you stop flying gliders?

Two things. One, a couple of job changes had me living where a glider operation wasn't so convenient. Two, I kind of burned myself out. For a number of years I would be at the gliderport flying every Sat and Sun spring, summer and fall. Then I'd take my vacation time and go all over the country doing contests. It was great though while I was active.

 

[tonycondon]

Jesse, the FAA has advised flight instructors that it does not want us to continue simulated engine out practice below 500 AGL.

Mark, totally agree with simulated engine out practice to landing on a runway. And that it is silly not to take simulated off field approaches down lower if conditions favor it.