Pre-solo spin training - video

eetrojan

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eetrojan
Hey all, I've yet to solo, but I had the opportunity to do some spin training today, flying out of John Wayne (SNA) in SoCal. What a blast!

This video was made with me handholding the GoPro with CFI Bill at the stick, after I did several spins and recoveries, both left and right.

Also, be kind, as this is my first attempt at a GoPro video.

Good flying. Joe

 
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Hmm...gotta give that 1-3/4 spin a cumulative zero. :) Severely forced entry, good stop on heading, but then aileroned it and pulled 40 degrees off heading during the pull to level. :D

But seriously, good for you for getting some basic spin training.
 
You might want to try getting the head strap thing for the go-pro, i've taken some good videos with it. Looks good though

As for the entry it looked like he kicked the rudder too hard too soon. A decathlon is very easy to put into a spin (and stop a spin), it looked like the plane yawed pretty hard before it stalled. At least from my very limited experience, the decathlon is happy to drop a wing if you are uncoordinated when you stall, so there is no reason to kick it so hard before you get really slow
 
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Ren - ruddering a little before the stall is a way to get a more positive spin entry, since he's not worried about being judged at an IAC competition. :) In competition, it's points off unless the nose simultaneously moves about (3) axes - nose drop, yaw, and roll all at the sime time. This means waiting for the airplane to stall before applying rudder. In the Decathlon this can produce a fairly slow spin entry. Helps to hold a slight amount of rudder in the direction of the spin as you're approaching the stall. But in competition, there is no judging criteria for how fast the spin develops, only that it develops properly. But unless you're practicing for a contest, ruddering a little before the stall isn't a bad idea just so it positively gets a spin going, rather than wallowing for a half turn or so before breaking into a steady rotation.
 
Severely forced entry, good stop on heading....

I did my CFI spin training in a 172M a few years abck cause that was all that was available. You wanna talk about forced? lol

Sometimes we could not even make the plane do it at all. Did the training in the winter which probably made the air too thick.

David
 
I understand putting in some rudder before the spin to get a more positive entry, in the video he is yawing pretty good and when the stall breaks the wing tucks under quickly.

Why then would you consider it a forced entry? It does look a little goofy to me. My thoughts were that it was horsed into the spin by putting in a lot of rudder before the stall, instead of some healthy encouragement, he put in almost full rudder. It also looks like just before the stall broke, he yanked back on the stick and it was a bit of an accelerated stall
 
The "forced entry" thing was just a joke I was making as if I was judging the spin at a contest. :) "Forced entry" is standard judges' lingo for ruddering early, which yaws the airplane before the nose drops. 1 point off for every five degrees the airplane moves about any particular axis while not simultaneously moving in the other two. A "snapped entry" would be when you yank the stick back before the airplane stalls. This can actually result in a zero, if the nose is seen to pitch up sharply before spinning, since that's what's required of a snap roll, which is totally different from a spin. Way OT, I know. :)
 
Actually Whifferdill, thank you for the explanations. Always want to learn more even if I can't do the fun flying you do.

David
 
Ok, whiff, if you would please explain the steps to get a nice spin entry in a decathlon, I'd appreciate it. I've tried it several ways and haven't quite got the best one yet. Remember I have a 3 bladed MT prop which I wonder if that makes a difference.

And, Joe, thanks for posting the video!
 
Ok, whiff, if you would please explain the steps to get a nice spin entry in a decathlon, I'd appreciate it. I've tried it several ways and haven't quite got the best one yet. Remember I have a 3 bladed MT prop which I wonder if that makes a difference.

Jean - so I looked at the IAC database and you averaged 8's on your spins...so I don't think you need much help. :) It's been a long time since I've spun a Super D, but I've coached/criqued them from the ground. Most bad spin entries in any airplane result from letting the airplane sink during the entry, and ruddering too early in an attempt to get the rotation started without the airplane wallowing for too long before rotating steadily.

The main thing I've found that helps is to not let the airplane settle while approaching the stall. In fact, it's best to climb very slightly into the stall. The judges won't notice and you'll enter more cleanly because your airspeed will be slower which gives you less forward trajectory during the entry. As you approach the stall, watch the altimeter and try to get it to climb very slightly as you work the stick back to the stall. Hold a slight amount of rudder in the direction you want to spin as you're approaching the stall. At the very first indication of the stall buffet or stall, quickly but smoothly apply full rudder, with full aft stick following an instant later. You should reach the stall buffet before the stick hits the stop. If your timing was good, the nose should simultaneously drop, yaw, and roll into the spin. Don't worry if it happens slowly, as long as it happens, and the spin doesn't actually stop in the first half.

Not much should be different with the MT. The main thing the MT will do over metal when spinning is to make the behavior of the airplane more symmetrical between left and right spins. The incipient spin will likely be slightly more oscillatory to the left with the metal prop (it is in the Pitts). The MT should make for a more even left spin entry. The gyroscopics of the metal prop while yawing left try to pitch the nose up during rotation. There's very little gyro effect with the MT. Spins to the right are typically smoother and more nose-down (once developed) with a metal prop.

Practice spins both directions and see which way works the best when it doesn't matter which way you spin. But remember you should be able to do them equally well in both directions. Crosswinds and your ground reference lines will influence which way is best to spin during any given flight. The crosswind issue applies to 1-1/4 spins.

This goes against everything spin training instructors teach, but you can actually apply power during the recovery to get a cleaner, quicker, and crisper stop while establishing a vertical downline faster with less altitude loss than if you waited until the downline was set before re-applying power. Of course, this power-on technique is completely inappropriate as emergency spin recovery technique, but competition spins are a very different concept...they are about perfect situational awareness, known outcomes, and precision control over the airplane - none of which matters when you're simply trying to keep from drilling a hole in the ground after spinning accidentally. Emergency spin recovery should always be power off. But this power-on technique is really not very important. It's something to keep in mind if you want to try some advanced techniques and get the most out of your airplane. Proceed with caution.
 
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Thanks Eric for the info... Lots of discussion to be had on this but that makes for some serious thread creep ... So I'll bring it up in the aerobatic section.

I looked at the video and thought that looked like a nice spin and recovery to me!
 
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