Potential Private Pilot!

[mwb786]

Hey everyone!
First off, great forum. Pilot training is not easy, so it's great to know there's support out here.
I've been dreaming of flying since I was a kid and I think I'm finally ready to make that dream a reality, little by little. I'll be in graduate school for the next few years but definitely want to begin training. Can anyone point me to some threads/articles/resources for beginners? Meanwhile, I have a few questions:

1) Do all the hours of training have to be completed at a single academy? If not, are there any rules? How are hours logged and verified?

2) I was thinking on going on those commercial "Training" sessions you would find online to get my feet what and see what it feels like to be in the cockpit. Would that time count towards the official training hours towards the private pilot license? Or should I begin official training instead?

3) As I said, I will be a student and won't have a massive income but don't want to hold off on this dream any longer. I want to at least get started on this journey! That being said, how can I find the cheapest flight training courses available?

4) During training, are we allowed to bring spectators with us on board flights? Or does it depend on the instructor and academy?

Thank you for your guidance. I'm very excited!!!

 

[somorris]

1. All of the hours do not have to be completed at a single academy, although it might be less expensive that way.
2. I would go on an introductory flight instead of the exciting commercial training session.
3. Go for it, although it won't be cheap. That being said, you only live once.
4. Some places will let you bring spectators, although they may be distracting to you.

It is good to be excited. I went flying today and sometimes I still have a hard time believing we can soar above the earth like that. There are few things in life like it.

 

[N801BH]

Hey everyone!
First off, great forum. Pilot training is not easy, so it's great to know there's support out here.
I've been dreaming of flying since I was a kid and I think I'm finally ready to make that dream a reality, little by little. I'll be in graduate school for the next few years but definitely want to begin training. Can anyone point me to some threads/articles/resources for beginners? Meanwhile, I have a few questions:

1) Do all the hours of training have to be completed at a single academy? If not, are there any rules? How are hours logged and verified?

2) I was thinking on going on those commercial "Training" sessions you would find online to get my feet what and see what it feels like to be in the cockpit. Would that time count towards the official training hours towards the private pilot license? Or should I begin official training instead?

3) As I said, I will be a student and won't have a massive income but don't want to hold off on this dream any longer. I want to at least get started on this journey! That being said, how can I find the cheapest flight training courses available?

4) During training, are we allowed to bring spectators with us on board flights? Or does it depend on the instructor and academy?

Thank you for your guidance. I'm very excited!!!

Welcome to POA....

Pull up a chair and set a spell...

Ps.. Tracey will be along in a while to offer ya M&M's...

 

[gismo]

Hey everyone!
First off, great forum. Pilot training is not easy, so it's great to know there's support out here.
I've been dreaming of flying since I was a kid and I think I'm finally ready to make that dream a reality, little by little. I'll be in graduate school for the next few years but definitely want to begin training. Can anyone point me to some threads/articles/resources for beginners? Meanwhile, I have a few questions:

I suggest you start here:
http://www.aopa.org/training/

1) Do all the hours of training have to be completed at a single academy? If not, are there any rules? How are hours logged and verified?

That's three questions. For the most part you can train at as many schools and with as many instructors (CFIs) as you want but changing very often would be counterproductive. WRT rules and logging, there are several items that you must be trained for plus there are minimum flight hours required both for dual flight (with a CFI) and solo flight (all by yourself) and the instructor must sign entries indicating completion of the dual tasks and you must make the solo entries, all of which go in a logbook of some sort. In addition to the required flight training (most or all of which will be in an airplane although IIRC a tiny bit can be done in a "flight training device" (a relatively inexpensive "simulator", often PC based), you will need to acquire some knowledge and pass a written test on it. For that you can study on your own online, from a book, and/or with videos or interactive PC programs, or you can attend classroom training (about 20-25 hours worth).

2) I was thinking on going on those commercial "Training" sessions you would find online to get my feet what and see what it feels like to be in the cockpit. Would that time count towards the official training hours towards the private pilot license? Or should I begin official training instead

Nothing you do online will count for the required flight time. You could begin the coursework for the written test prior to starting on the flying part but it generally works best to do both test prep and flight training at the same time. Some schools offer a program that combines the two and with those you need to follow their schedule to keep the two in sync.

3) As I said, I will be a student and won't have a massive income but don't want to hold off on this dream any longer. I want to at least get started on this journey! That being said, how can I find the cheapest flight training courses available?

There are some "low cost" options but most of them require a much greater time commitment. Civil Air Patrol is an example of that. Alternatively you could learn to fly in gliders instead of airplanes, either with a soaring club (least expensive/most time required), or a commercial glider operation. Another option would be to go for a Sport Pilot certificate first. This gives you the ability to fly small 2 place airplanes but skips certain things like cross country navigation, airports with control towers, etc. With either a glider or sport pilot certificate you can "upgrade" to a full Private Pilot cert with less additional flying time that what's required when starting from scratch but in the long run it will take more total time to get to the PPL.

4) During training, are we allowed to bring spectators with us on
board flights? Or does it depend on the instructor and academy?

 

[MadseasoN]

I wouldn't do the 'commerical training session' thing. Do an intro flight like somorris recommended. If you don't plan on flying for a living I'd find a Part 61 operation somewhere like a flying club or a private instructor. This way you can train at your own pace. Grad school + pilot training is gonna keep you busy.

My instructor always welcomed passengers, especially on cross country trips.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Welcome. You are on a journey that will be one of the highlights of your life. You have good questions, and the answers should give you an idea of the support available. Have a ball!!!

 

[Henning]

Hey everyone!
First off, great forum. Pilot training is not easy, so it's great to know there's support out here.
I've been dreaming of flying since I was a kid and I think I'm finally ready to make that dream a reality, little by little. I'll be in graduate school for the next few years but definitely want to begin training. Can anyone point me to some threads/articles/resources for beginners? Meanwhile, I have a few questions:

1) Do all the hours of training have to be completed at a single academy? If not, are there any rules? How are hours logged and verified?

2) I was thinking on going on those commercial "Training" sessions you would find online to get my feet what and see what it feels like to be in the cockpit. Would that time count towards the official training hours towards the private pilot license? Or should I begin official training instead?

3) As I said, I will be a student and won't have a massive income but don't want to hold off on this dream any longer. I want to at least get started on this journey! That being said, how can I find the cheapest flight training courses available?

4) During training, are we allowed to bring spectators with us on board flights? Or does it depend on the instructor and academy?

Thank you for your guidance. I'm very excited!!!

Ok, first off welcome and nice to see a bright set of questions.
1)No, the hours can come from any certified flight instructor. I suggest you familiarize your self with the Jeppessen system and get a syllabus with a log book entry checklist of required training for you to keep track of. Make sure you take tight control of this if you do scattered training so you don't repeat stuff. You're a grad student so you should understand how to best utilize study time and facility availability. You'll need to read about 10 hrs per flight hour and fly at leas 3 lessons over 2 hrs a week minimum to progress at a reasonably cost efficient manner, and that is bare minimum. So you see that being poor is greatly going to limit your efficiency in training so you will not want to waste time with having missed things. Another option is very inexpensive and very simple Pt 103 Ultralight flying; it's a great way to experience pure flight and buy in is around $5k for a good used machine with no medical or required training. My friend and I did it from a few pages in a manual back when we were 16. The training opportunities have increased, however the requirements have not, there are none.

 

[Henning]

2) Not likely to 'count for anything' except the education received. As for the effectivity there it would depend on the program.

3) Reference above, it takes a good reserve to get a PP efficiently more than the cost of the Ultralight and training.

4) No passengers when solo, however with the CFI in the plane you can have friends and such along.

 

[denverpilot]

Already good answers so nothing to add other than a note that there's plenty of small aircraft businesses at most airports that rent aircraft and have instructors on staff that wouldn't presume to call themselves "Academies". Just airplanes and instructor's.

I think it's far more important to find good instructors and get references from other students if you're on a budget. A bad instructor can really waste a lot of time and money.

Anything called an "Academy" is probably a place built to crank out pilots for Commercial flying and some are good, some are bad. By bad I mean it's often low-time instructors teaching low-time students which can be about a 50/50 chance of getting quality instruction. They have their place, but be aware. The Academy style schools also often businesses that are propped up (no pun intended) by student loan money and quite expensive because the tendency is toward maximizing the dollar amounts allowed for those loans.

Give some specifics as to where you live and what airport/"Academy" you're looking at. Folks here will give an honest opinion if they know anything about it. They may also know the better deals and great instructors based near you.

 

[jspilot]

Quality instructors are really the key as DenverPilot said. With that said, there are advantages to going to a flight school that has multiple planes with multiple instructors. I can only speak from my experience but I went to a school with 4 planes and many instructors and flew with 3 different instructors during my PPL training. I always could schedule a lesson that fit into my schedule and the only times I ever got shut out of flying was do to weather. I'm not sure what qualifies as an "Academy"( my school did call themselves one so I guess they were) but I think I got a great experience, learned a lot, and seem to be a safe pilot.


Either way- good luck to the OP and be sure to enjoy the ride!

 

[hopmedic]

Another option would be to go for a Sport Pilot certificate first. This gives you the ability to fly small 2 place airplanes but skips certain things like cross country navigation, airports with control towers, etc. With either a glider or sport pilot certificate you can "upgrade" to a full Private Pilot cert with less additional flying time that what's required when starting from scratch but in the long run it will take more total time to get to the PPL.

Sport Pilot doesn't skip cross country, but the cross country legs are shorter - 25 miles instead of 50, IIRC. SP skips night flying, though, and the controlled airspace is optional, but if you don't get the endorsement, you can't operate in controlled airspace.

All of the time that you log flying as a SP will count toward future certifications. There is some discussion as to whether a person planning on going for Private who starts with Sport should use a Sport Pilot Instructor at all, or whether he should stick with a CFI, since SPI dual time doesn't count toward PPL training, however most agree that the added training needed for PPL (night flying, instrument, longer cross countries, etc) would more than make up for the needed dual hours for PPL.

Disclaimer: I am not yet a pilot, but have looked at SP a good bit, because I want to become one.

I would agree with all those who say that a good instructor will make a big difference. I would also suggest finding out if you have an EAA chapter (www.eaa.org) nearby. You can find a good bunch of people there, and you may find that there are instructors in the chapter, as well.

 

[Henning]

Sport Pilot doesn't skip cross country, but the cross country legs are shorter - 25 miles instead of 50, IIRC. SP skips night flying, though, and the controlled airspace is optional, but if you don't get the endorsement, you can't operate in controlled airspace.

All of the time that you log flying as a SP will count toward future certifications. There is some discussion as to whether a person planning on going for Private who starts with Sport should use a Sport Pilot Instructor at all, or whether he should stick with a CFI, since SPI dual time doesn't count toward PPL training, however most agree that the added training needed for PPL (night flying, instrument, longer cross countries, etc) would more than make up for the needed dual hours for PPL.

Disclaimer: I am not yet a pilot, but have looked at SP a good bit, because I want to become one.

I would agree with all those who say that a good instructor will make a big difference. I would also suggest finding out if you have an EAA chapter (www.eaa.org) nearby. You can find a good bunch of people there, and you may find that there are instructors in the chapter, as well.

SP will let you XC in straight lines at 2 miles a minute without a medical, that is the saving grace. It will also let you get into aviation in the 2 seat ultralights that LSA was adopted to reform the governance on; this was due to too many deaths while giving rides under 103. You can no longer operate 103 with 2 seats. Passengers now require training.

If you don't need a passenger or to go far and fast (far you can do, just not fast, and ground support with an RV helps a bunch.

 

[hopmedic]

SP will let you XC in straight lines at 2 miles a minute without a medical, that is the saving grace. It will also let you get into aviation in the 2 seat ultralights that LSA was adopted to reform the governance on; this was due to too many deaths while giving rides under 103. You can no longer operate 103 with 2 seats. Passengers now require training.

If you don't need a passenger or to go far and fast (far you can do, just not fast, and ground support with an RV helps a bunch.

I want the SP over just part 103 because I want to be able to carry my wife, I want to be able to go places faster than a car, sometimes go up just to go up, and because for me, getting a medical would be expensive, take time, and the outcome of that time and money would not be guaranteed. I'm better off not applying for a medical, rather than getting rejected and be knocked out of SP. While it would be nice to be able to fly the more-available and cheaper to rent 152, 172 or Cherokee, I'd rather fly something than nothing.

 

[Skip Miller]

Not yet discussed are the two types of "academys".

One is a school operated under the regulations part 141. 141 schools are intended to train pilots who want to go forward with an aviation career. Now that is a generalization, and many pilots seeking only the fun of flying out for the hundred dollar hamburger on the weekend also enroll in 141 schools. The downside of a 141 school for you as I see it, is that they have a very organized syllabus that almost demands you fly frequently in order to stay current with what you just learned. Flying once every three weeks or so is going to put you well behind in the 141 syllabus.

The other type of school is the part 91 school. These schools can produce pilots just as competent as the 141 school, but the procedures you learn may not be as congruent to what airlines are seeking. And without a strict set of lesson plans for you to follow, the training plan can be customized to your schedule and your aptitude.

It sounds to me like your schedule and money constraints are pointing to a part 91 flight school. But ... I only know what you have written here, and I could be wrong.

Many students have gone through several flight instructors to seek one who is a good fit for them. Personality does play a part in this. This can be a problem in both 141 and 91 schools, so you need to interview the schools and the potential instructors. And, since you don't know what you don't know, this decision may need to be revisited as you gather flight time and knowledge.

Good luck with it, and most importantly, have fun with it. It took me about 15 months and 70 flight hours to get my PP-ASEL flying once per weekend (and with many weekends cancelled due to weather) so it is a bit of a slog to reach the goal if your experience is similar.

I'd like to call your attention to this current thread here on POA:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49244

It discusses several of the issues raised in this thread.

Most importantly, stay here at POA, and tell us of your accomplishments and frustrations. You will get a ton of advice. Some of it will be relevant to your situation. So: Welcome!

-Skip

 

[mwb786]

Thanks for the quick responses, everyone! You guys are awesome. I should probably add some details about myself since I'm receiving excellent responses. I live in New York City (near Nassau County, Long Island) but will be going to grad school in Washington, DC (living in Silver Spring, MD); hence, the question about completing training hours with >1 CFI.

1. All of the hours do not have to be completed at a single academy, although it might be less expensive that way.
2. I would go on an introductory flight instead of the exciting commercial training session.
3. Go for it, although it won't be cheap. That being said, you only live once.
4. Some places will let you bring spectators, although they may be distracting to you.

It is good to be excited. I went flying today and sometimes I still have a hard time believing we can soar above the earth like that. There are few things in life like it.

Hi somorris, how would I find introductory flights? Find instructors, then ask for intro flight session? I was going to do one of the "experiences" on cloud9living.com, groupon.com, or something.

Welcome to POA....

Pull up a chair and set a spell...

Ps.. Tracey will be along in a while to offer ya M&M's...

Thank you, sir!

I suggest you start here:
http://www.aopa.org/training/

That's three questions. For the most part you can train at as many schools and with as many instructors (CFIs) as you want but changing very often would be counterproductive. WRT rules and logging, there are several items that you must be trained for plus there are minimum flight hours required both for dual flight (with a CFI) and solo flight (all by yourself) and the instructor must sign entries indicating completion of the dual tasks and you must make the solo entries, all of which go in a logbook of some sort. In addition to the required flight training (most or all of which will be in an airplane although IIRC a tiny bit can be done in a "flight training device" (a relatively inexpensive "simulator", often PC based), you will need to acquire some knowledge and pass a written test on it. For that you can study on your own online, from a book, and/or with videos or interactive PC programs, or you can attend classroom training (about 20-25 hours worth).


Nothing you do online will count for the required flight time. You could begin the coursework for the written test prior to starting on the flying part but it generally works best to do both test prep and flight training at the same time. Some schools offer a program that combines the two and with those you need to follow their schedule to keep the two in sync.


There are some "low cost" options but most of them require a much greater time commitment. Civil Air Patrol is an example of that. Alternatively you could learn to fly in gliders instead of airplanes, either with a soaring club (least expensive/most time required), or a commercial glider operation. Another option would be to go for a Sport Pilot certificate first. This gives you the ability to fly small 2 place airplanes but skips certain things like cross country navigation, airports with control towers, etc. With either a glider or sport pilot certificate you can "upgrade" to a full Private Pilot cert with less additional flying time that what's required when starting from scratch but in the long run it will take more total time to get to the PPL.

Hi Gismo. I like the idea of doing test prep and flight training, simultaneously. I'm going to look into Civil Air Patrol and Soaring Clubs and get back to you all on that. As far as SPCs are concerned, I am familiar with some of the the pros and cons in comparison to the PPL and feel like I'd ultimately like to obtain the PPL (to be able to entertain friends/family members, among other reasons). If I were to get an SPC first, would all my training hours "count" towards the PPL? If not, how much of it will? Should I expect some redundancy in terms of training and examination, if I were to go this route (SPC, then PPL)? Is the this route cheaper overall?

I wouldn't do the 'commerical training session' thing. Do an intro flight like somorris recommended. If you don't plan on flying for a living I'd find a Part 61 operation somewhere like a flying club or a private instructor. This way you can train at your own pace. Grad school + pilot training is gonna keep you busy.

My instructor always welcomed passengers, especially on cross country trips.

Hi Madseason, this sounds great! I don't plan on flying for a living and would love to train at my own pace. Can you offer some guidance as to how I would find an intro flight session? Meanwhile, I'll look into the Part 61 operation you mentioned and get back to you on that.

Welcome. You are on a journey that will be one of the highlights of your life. You have good questions, and the answers should give you an idea of the support available. Have a ball!!!

Thanks, threefingeredjack! I am extremely glad I found this community and cannot believe I will be able to realize my dream!

Ok, first off welcome and nice to see a bright set of questions.
1)No, the hours can come from any certified flight instructor. I suggest you familiarize your self with the Jeppessen system and get a syllabus with a log book entry checklist of required training for you to keep track of. Make sure you take tight control of this if you do scattered training so you don't repeat stuff. You're a grad student so you should understand how to best utilize study time and facility availability. You'll need to read about 10 hrs per flight hour and fly at leas 3 lessons over 2 hrs a week minimum to progress at a reasonably cost efficient manner, and that is bare minimum. So you see that being poor is greatly going to limit your efficiency in training so you will not want to waste time with having missed things. Another option is very inexpensive and very simple Pt 103 Ultralight flying; it's a great way to experience pure flight and buy in is around $5k for a good used machine with no medical or required training. My friend and I did it from a few pages in a manual back when we were 16. The training opportunities have increased, however the requirements have not, there are none.

Thanks, Henning! I will look into PT 103 and get back to you all on that!

Already good answers so nothing to add other than a note that there's plenty of small aircraft businesses at most airports that rent aircraft and have instructors on staff that wouldn't presume to call themselves "Academies". Just airplanes and instructor's.

I think it's far more important to find good instructors and get references from other students if you're on a budget. A bad instructor can really waste a lot of time and money.

Anything called an "Academy" is probably a place built to crank out pilots for Commercial flying and some are good, some are bad. By bad I mean it's often low-time instructors teaching low-time students which can be about a 50/50 chance of getting quality instruction. They have their place, but be aware. The Academy style schools also often businesses that are propped up (no pun intended) by student loan money and quite expensive because the tendency is toward maximizing the dollar amounts allowed for those loans.

Give some specifics as to where you live and what airport/"Academy" you're looking at. Folks here will give an honest opinion if they know anything about it. They may also know the better deals and great instructors based near you.

thanks, Denverpilot! In the DC area, I was looking at airports in Gaithersburg, MD and Leesburg, VA. In NYC, I was looking at academies near LaGuardia (!) and MacArthur Airport, in Suffolk County. I guess I should also be looking at the airports in Westchester County. Is there a list/map I can refer to?

Quality instructors are really the key as DenverPilot said. With that said, there are advantages to going to a flight school that has multiple planes with multiple instructors. I can only speak from my experience but I went to a school with 4 planes and many instructors and flew with 3 different instructors during my PPL training. I always could schedule a lesson that fit into my schedule and the only times I ever got shut out of flying was do to weather. I'm not sure what qualifies as an "Academy"( my school did call themselves one so I guess they were) but I think I got a great experience, learned a lot, and seem to be a safe pilot.


Either way- good luck to the OP and be sure to enjoy the ride!

Thanks, jspilot! I don't mind the idea of having multiple instructors just because of the scheduling reason you gave. However, if I could find a private instructor who could take me under his wing D), then that'd be really great. I personally don't know anyone who flies, so this is just me just out to see if I can make this dream a reality. I could really use a mentor in this process since I don't know the first thing about flying, besides wanting to do it! However, I am willing to learn!

 

[mwb786]

Not yet discussed are the two types of "academys".

One is a school operated under the regulations part 141. 141 schools are intended to train pilots who want to go forward with an aviation career. Now that is a generalization, and many pilots seeking only the fun of flying out for the hundred dollar hamburger on the weekend also enroll in 141 schools. The downside of a 141 school for you as I see it, is that they have a very organized syllabus that almost demands you fly frequently in order to stay current with what you just learned. Flying once every three weeks or so is going to put you well behind in the 141 syllabus.

The other type of school is the part 91 school. These schools can produce pilots just as competent as the 141 school, but the procedures you learn may not be as congruent to what airlines are seeking. And without a strict set of lesson plans for you to follow, the training plan can be customized to your schedule and your aptitude.

It sounds to me like your schedule and money constraints are pointing to a part 91 flight school. But ... I only know what you have written here, and I could be wrong.

Many students have gone through several flight instructors to seek one who is a good fit for them. Personality does play a part in this. This can be a problem in both 141 and 91 schools, so you need to interview the schools and the potential instructors. And, since you don't know what you don't know, this decision may need to be revisited as you gather flight time and knowledge.

Good luck with it, and most importantly, have fun with it. It took me about 15 months and 70 flight hours to get my PP-ASEL flying once per weekend (and with many weekends cancelled due to weather) so it is a bit of a slog to reach the goal if your experience is similar.

I'd like to call your attention to this current thread here on POA:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49244

It discusses several of the issues raised in this thread.

Most importantly, stay here at POA, and tell us of your accomplishments and frustrations. You will get a ton of advice. Some of it will be relevant to your situation. So: Welcome!

-Skip

Thank you, Skip! Appreciate the response. Now I don't mean to sound lazy, since I can google all of the terms thrown around on this thread so far, but I imagine that you guys can offer a better answer tailored to my need, so here goes: Part 91, Part 141, Part 61, and Part 103 are pretty much numbers to me, at this point. Are there any more classification groups I should be aware of? I want to compare these, first, and make a decision as to what I should aim for.

Thanks, again!

 

[mwb786]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but do posts require approval from the moderators? I'm wondering if that's the reason earlier posts aren't appearing or if I screwed up posting them.

When I had clicked post earlier today, a message appeared stating that they would need to be approved by the moderators. Maybe because the post was long or because I did a "multi-quote"?

 

[Tracey]

Ps.. Tracey will be along in a while to offer ya M&M's...

Welcome to the POA! We're glad to have you here!

(And Ben is actually the giver away-er of the M&M's, but he ate them all, so he's trying to find someone else to do his work).

Anyway, welcome!

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but do posts require approval from the moderators? I'm wondering if that's the reason earlier posts aren't appearing or if I screwed up posting them.

When I had clicked post earlier today, a message appeared stating that they would need to be approved by the moderators. Maybe because the post was long or because I did a "multi-quote"?

Welcome. Yes, when you have a low post count / low time here I think there is an issue with posting. I'm sure the mods will be along to fix things. For now if you use simple posts with no quotes it looks like they are working fine. Soon you will have no limits.