Portable FAA bust?

[spiderweb]

You've got yourself into a jam, but you're able to climb above whatever Wx was "jamming" you. 16,000' does the trick, and you thank goodness for your portable oxygen! Unfortunately, your passenger doesn't have any left.

OK, for safety, you've done the right thing (although one would hope one could have forseen this situation and either not have to have climbed that high without passenger O2; or made sure said passenger had O2). Your non-pilot passenger is now having a happy-happy sleep, and presently you are able and approved to descend to 10,000'. You broke the law (and you didn't declare, either).

I am just interested in comments on this situation. And NO, it wasn't me!

 

[TMetzinger]

The reg says the flight crew MUST use oxygen. The regs say they must OFFER their pax oxygen, not that he must use it.

PIC emergency authority comes into play too. The only way I see someone to come to grief over this is if the pax claims damage as a result of the PIC failing in the duty to offer him oxygen. An affirmative defense to both a lawsuit and the FAA would be the emergency authority and what the alternative to the climb would have been.

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, Tim! And I also wonder what sort of physiological damage could occur due to, say, 15 minutes at 16,000 feet? I'm thinking it would be minimal. At the same time, though, I completely respect the regulations regarding this situation.

 

[jesse]

Thanks, Tim! And I also wonder what sort of physiological damage could occur due to, say, 15 minutes at 16,000 feet? I'm thinking it would be minimal. At the same time, though, I completely respect the regulations regarding this situation.

If the person is of reasonable health - 15 minutes at 16,000 feet sitting in an airplane is not going to do them any harm.

 

[N801BH]

1000's of people drive to the top of Pikes Peak every summer and spend the day up there. IIRC it is over 14,000 msl.... Ya never hear of medical issues from that... YMMV.

Ben.

 

[spiderweb]

If the person is of reasonable health - 15 minutes at 16,000 feet sitting in an airplane is not going to do them any harm.

This is what I'm thinking. When I fly with my mother (70+ years) she sleeps above 4000' anyway!

 

[spiderweb]

1000's of people drive to the top of Pikes Peak every summer and spend the day up there. IIRC it is over 14,000 msl.... Ya never hear of medical issues from that... YMMV.

Ben.

Wow. That's a great point!

 

[Trapper John]

The reg says the flight crew MUST use oxygen. The regs say they must OFFER their pax oxygen, not that he must use it.

I think the word is "provide". Not sure whether that means the same as "offer." My guess is that if FAA's intent was "offer", they would have said "make available".

 

[jesse]

I think the word is "provide". Not sure whether that means the same as "offer." My guess is that if FAA's intent was "offer", they would have said "make available".

Actually the regs make it pretty clear. Passengers must have it provided but they do not have to use it.

(2) At cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 ft (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen during the entire flight time at those altitudes.

Notice how it specifies provided and use for the case of the flight crew. For the other occupants it does not.

(3) At cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet (MSL) unless each occupant of the aircraft is provided with supplemental oxygen.

 

[Trapper John]

Actually the regs make it pretty clear. Passengers must have it provided but they do not have to use it.
Notice how it specifies provided and use for the case of the flight crew. For the other occupants it does not.

I can see how you'd come to that conclusion. But further down it says:


Pressurized cabin aircraft. (1) No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry with a pressurized cabin—
(i) At flight altitudes above flight level 250 unless at least a 10-minute supply of supplemental oxygen, in addition to any oxygen required to satisfy paragraph (a) of this section, is available for each occupant of the aircraft for use in the event that a descent is necessitated by loss of cabin pressurization;


We're not talking about pressurized aircraft in this exercise, but I think it's interesting they used "available" instead of "provide". That makes me think there's a difference in the mind of FAA. Who knows...