Point of origin (Xc logging question)....

T Bone

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T Bone
When I was a student pilot, I about some opinions that one must depart an airport and land not closer than 50nm distant for the flight to apply for a solo cross country requirement.

Now that I have my PPL, and intend to go forward with training for an IFR ticket, I've wondered if the above still applies? If I depart airport "A" with a destination of airport "C" which is 55nm away, can I land at the intermediate airport "B" between them, and still properly log the flight as XC? (Considering the flight to qualify for some of the cross country requirements of the IFR rating).
 
T Bone said:
When I was a student pilot, I about some opinions that one must depart an airport and land not closer than 50nm distant for the flight to apply for a solo cross country requirement.
Not exactly -- the rule is that if the flight includes a landing more than 50nm from the original point of departure, the whole flight is XC for the aero experience requirements for Private, Instrument, and Commercial. You can land as many times at as many airports between the OPD and the 50+nm distant field as you like. Don't know if there's anywhere that 11 airports are so aligned, but you could do a countable XC going only 5 miles on each leg (well, at least one pair would have to be 5.1nm apart).

Now that I have my PPL, and intend to go forward with training for an IFR ticket, I've wondered if the above still applies? If I depart airport "A" with a destination of airport "C" which is 55nm away, can I land at the intermediate airport "B" between them, and still properly log the flight as XC? (Considering the flight to qualify for some of the cross country requirements of the IFR rating).
Yes, you can, per the discussion above. As long as you make one landing (T&G is good enough) more than 50 nm from the OPD, it counts for those licenses/ratings.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, you can, per the discussion above. As long as you make one landing (T&G is good enough) more than 50 nm from the OPD, it counts for those licenses/ratings.

Where is KOPD anyway? :confused:

-Skip

just kidding!
 
Thanks Ron, I always was suspicious of the opinion I quoted in the beginning of this post (or tried to, with a bit of syntax error too I see :D ). It never really was an issue in primary training anyway, I was more or less just curious. I'm looking at several local trips of varying length. Those that are anywhere near will be extended (either before or after) beyond the "real" destination, in order to build the required Xc time.
 
The whole 50+nm XC thing has always confused me, so I always make my first landing at least 50nm away.

Am I understanding correctly that if I were to depart KRDU, fly and land at KTTA (23nm), then fly and land at KFAY (53nm from RDU & 37nm from KTTA) this all counts as a 50nm XC for the Private, IFR & Commercial ratings ?

I'm reading FAR 61.1(3)(b)(3)(ii)
 
jdwatson said:
The whole 50+nm XC thing has always confused me, so I always make my first landing at least 50nm away.
Effective, but unnecessary.

Am I understanding correctly that if I were to depart KRDU, fly and land at KTTA (23nm), then fly and land at KFAY (53nm from RDU & 37nm from KTTA) this all counts as a 50nm XC for the Private, IFR & Commercial ratings ?
Yes, you are understanding correctly. The key is the landing at FAY which is more than 50nm from RDU. Any other landings enroute in either direction are immaterial.

I'm reading FAR 61.1(3)(b)(3)(ii)
You are on the proper page of the hymnal.
 
Does this mean that he can count the entire hours as XC PIC time or only the part that is more than 50NM?

Sorry I am bumping an old post. But I am using the search button!
 
All of it is loggable for XC.

As long as you don’t abuse it.
Spending two hours doing touch and goes at the intermediate airport would probably put the you and your examiner validating your hours in a bind. He can make a pretty good point that the entire flight did not meet the requirements for Cross Country Time. (FAR 61.1 ….(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.)

I have had examiners tell me they have had to reject some cross country time, for just this reason.
If it takes you 3 hours to do a 52 mile flight in a C-172, There had better be a pretty good explanation as to how that is realistically all Cross Country time.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
There is no minimum distance for "cross country". The distance limits only apply when you want to use the cross country time towards a particular certificate. And, then the actual distance required depends on the certificate you are applying for.
14 CFR 61.1
Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.


(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under § 61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate with powered parachute privileges or a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute category rating, time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 15 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(v) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument-helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft, under § 61.101(c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under § 61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.
 
As long as you don’t abuse it.
Spending two hours doing touch and goes at the intermediate airport would probably put the you and your examiner validating your hours in a bind. He can make a pretty good point that the entire flight did not meet the requirements for Cross Country Time. (FAR 61.1 ….(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.)

I have had examiners tell me they have had to reject some cross country time, for just this reason.
If it takes you 3 hours to do a 52 mile flight in a C-172, There had better be a pretty good explanation as to how that is realistically all Cross Country time.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

I have been a flight instructor >30 years and have heard a lot of crazy stuff, but I have never heard of a student doing even an hour of touch and goes during an XC or a single DPE comment they disqualified the student for this.

It is though very common for a student to complete the required 3 full stop landings at a controlled airport on the long XC and I have never heard of a DPE exclude any XC time as a result.
 
Does this mean that he can count the entire hours as XC PIC time or only the part that is more than 50NM?

Sorry I am bumping an old post. But I am using the search button!
The thread moved around, so I think you may need to be more specific in what you are asking.

The "point of origin" is where you decide your cross country flight is starting. The >50 NM requirement is from that point of origin to any other point of landing on the route you select.

Assume a 1-way flight. The final destination is 52 nm straight line from the point of origin. You stop at an airport every 10 miles along the way. The flight is countable as a cross country toward FAA certificates and ratings.
 
I have been a flight instructor >30 years and have heard a lot of crazy stuff, but I have never heard of a student doing even an hour of touch and goes during an XC or a single DPE comment they disqualified the student for this.

It is though very common for a student to complete the required 3 full stop landings at a controlled airport on the long XC and I have never heard of a DPE exclude any XC time as a result.


I agree that is very common and acceptable. Just saying make the time you log as cross country believable. If it the time doesn’t make sense you are likely to get called out on it. I have had flights where the flight was a 3 hour but we stopped somewhere to practice Take-offs and landings. So we logged a 3 hour flight, but only 2 hours of Cross country time.

Brian,
 
The thread moved around, so I think you may need to be more specific in what you are asking.

The "point of origin" is where you decide your cross country flight is starting. The >50 NM requirement is from that point of origin to any other point of landing on the route you select.

Assume a 1-way flight. The final destination is 52 nm straight line from the point of origin. You stop at an airport every 10 miles along the way. The flight is countable as a cross country toward FAA certificates and ratings.


Let’s say I flew from KLVK to KPAO .6hrs 20nm then from there after doing a taxi back I flew to KMRY which is 54nm and .8hrs. Would I log 1.4 or .8 xc time?
 
Let’s say I flew from KLVK to KPAO .6hrs 20nm then from there after doing a taxi back I flew to KMRY which is 54nm and .8hrs. Would I log 1.4 or .8 xc time?
Your choice.
You can log this as a single XC flight for all the time involved or You can log this as two flights with the first being a non-xc flight and the second being a XC flight. Your choice.
But why does the first leg take so long from LVK to PAO?
 
Let’s say I flew from KLVK to KPAO .6hrs 20nm then from there after doing a taxi back I flew to KMRY which is 54nm and .8hrs. Would I log 1.4 or .8 xc time?
The regs allow you to log 1.4 for a LVK PAO MRY cross country flight.
 
Your choice.
You can log this as a single XC flight for all the time involved or You can log this as two flights with the first being a non-xc flight and the second being a XC flight. Your choice.
But why does the first leg take so long from LVK to PAO?

there was 6 planes in the pattern with Kpao but once I was off IT was a spring to KMRY. I will log it as 1.4 xc pic hours since I need this for my IR. Thanks!
 
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