Please help with FAA medical

R

Randy

Filing Flight Plan
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Skydive101
I don't know what to do anymore. On my initial app for medical I got a letter requesting a bunch of stuff with 60 days to get it.

I called the FAA nearly every business day for help for the entire 60 days and never was even able to leave a message(high call volume prerecorded). The case was finally closed around March.


Randomly got a letter saying I have 30 days to complete it.

I need a psychiatric evaluation and a psychologist eval with core test battery. Here's the issue...

I've called over 40 people and no one can do it. Called the FAA and told them so they gave me a handful of numbers. None of them could preform the required tests either.

I'm a veteran. The VA seems hopeless with this.

I finally found a SINGLE person who can do the psychological exam but it's close to three thousand dollars. That's only one of two parts and I still can't find a psychiatrist to meet their requirements.


This is insane. They assure me this is routine and not hard to do. I've spent an incredible amount of time searching and calling people. I've got 12 days left to have it all submitted.

Please help. This seems insane. Even if I miraculously find one to do it all in time it sounds like I'm looking at close to $5,000.00 for a maybe?!
 
1st you are going to nned to get an experienced AME like Dr. Bruce and immediately apply for an extension. It sounds like a HIMS - AME type case. Yes u can forget the VA. Yes is it will be expensive. Good luck!
 
Thanks for the number. Sounds like I'm basically grounded for life. He said it would be at least $6k, and even if I did it (which he said sounds like a waste) I can't get it in time and need to accept I'm going to get denied.

Thanks FAA. That will teach vets to seek help. When will I learn being too honest always ends up screwing me. Probably not on the next one either.
 
I'll echo what's been said.. Reach out to Doc Bruce, AFAIK he's helped MANY on this board with tricky medical issues. Don't give up on your dream!
 
Randy said:
Thanks for the number. Sounds like I'm basically grounded for life. He said it would be at least $6k, and even if I did it (which he said sounds like a waste) I can't get it in time and need to accept I'm going to get denied.

Thanks FAA. That will teach vets to seek help. When will I learn being too honest always ends up screwing me. Probably not on the next one either.
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Well, health comes before aviation so you probably did the right thing. And being truthful sometimes has a price, but it is not near as costly as being untruthful. Doc Bruce is the expert on these matters and you can take what he says to the bank.
 
Basically, the OP needs to get some VAH help and get fully well first, before blowing the $6K on the evaluation(s).

To the OP: Thank you for your service.
 
Would it be too late for the OP to withdraw his application and pursue a Sport Pilot license? (Assuming this meets his mission.) That way he can fly using his driver's license? (No medical required?)

Ditto from me as well: Thank you for your service!
 
rtk11 said:
Would it be too late for the OP to withdraw his application and pursue a Sport Pilot license? (Assuming this meets his mission.) That way he can fly using his driver's license? (No medical required?)

Ditto from me as well: Thank you for your service!
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It's too late. The app was submitted and deferred to OKC.
 
Forgot balloons, thanks. I knew those didn't require a medical but never did figure out whether a denial would matter.
 
They may all have the clause that says you can't fly if you have a condition that makes it unsafe to do so, but I haven't paid that close attention, since I don't fly those.
 
I think that's always the case, but of course that determination is somewhat subjective, right?
 
rtk11 said:
Would it be too late for the OP to withdraw his application and pursue a Sport Pilot license? (Assuming this meets his mission.) That way he can fly using his driver's license? (No medical required?)

Ditto from me as well: Thank you for your service!
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No. You cannot have been denied or deferred a medical certificate in order to exercise the SP option. Now that he's rung this bell, he cannot unring it. He has to get medically certified (SI or otherwise) before he can exercise sport pilot privileges.
 
Randy said:
I don't know what to do anymore. On my initial app for medical I got a letter requesting a bunch of stuff with 60 days to get it.

I called the FAA nearly every business day for help for the entire 60 days and never was even able to leave a message(high call volume prerecorded). The case was finally closed around March.


Randomly got a letter saying I have 30 days to complete it.

I need a psychiatric evaluation and a psychologist eval with core test battery. Here's the issue...

I've called over 40 people and no one can do it. Called the FAA and told them so they gave me a handful of numbers. None of them could preform the required tests either.

I'm a veteran. The VA seems hopeless with this.

I finally found a SINGLE person who can do the psychological exam but it's close to three thousand dollars. That's only one of two parts and I still can't find a psychiatrist to meet their requirements.


This is insane. They assure me this is routine and not hard to do. I've spent an incredible amount of time searching and calling people. I've got 12 days left to have it all submitted.

Please help. This seems insane. Even if I miraculously find one to do it all in time it sounds like I'm looking at close to $5,000.00 for a maybe?!
Click to expand...


Randy.. if you are still here, thanks for your service.. and I am sorry you have come across the medical certification hurdle the hard way. If I was to guess, you've already put quite a bit of time and money into this and just now approached the medical exam.

As you've discovered, the FAA is pretty rigid in their thought process for medical certification for pilots, particularly involving anything even closely related to mental health. Its far and away more hoops to jump through than a personal driver's license or even a commercial driver's license.. Please dont kick yourself for being honest. The hammer eventually comes down harder if you are deceptive and its later discovered.

Unfortunately the folks you need to see 1) aren't covered by insurance and 2) are tough to find if you aren't wired into the aeromedical community. You've spoken with an expert in the field. Get your health straight.. then if flying is for you... pursue the medical.

Good luck, sir..
 
Palmpilot said:
They may all have the clause that says you can't fly if you have a condition that makes it unsafe to do so, but I haven't paid that close attention, since I don't fly those.
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DaleB said:
I think that's always the case, but of course that determination is somewhat subjective, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, §61.53 states that even if a medical certificate is not required, you are prohibited from acting as PIC if you know (or has reason to know) of any medical condition that would preclude you from being able to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. As far as whether that's subjective, well that depends on the facts of the case.
 
bbchien said:
Basically, the OP needs to get some VAH help and get fully well first, before blowing the $6K on the evaluation(s).

To the OP: Thank you for your service.
Click to expand...

I've been in VA "Care" for seven years. I doubt my issues will ever get any better than they are now.

Doggtyred said:
Randy.. if you are still here, thanks for your service.. and I am sorry you have come across the medical certification hurdle the hard way. If I was to guess, you've already put quite a bit of time and money into this and just now approached the medical exam.

As you've discovered, the FAA is pretty rigid in their thought process for medical certification for pilots, particularly involving anything even closely related to mental health. Its far and away more hoops to jump through than a personal driver's license or even a commercial driver's license.. Please dont kick yourself for being honest. The hammer eventually comes down harder if you are deceptive and its later discovered.

Unfortunately the folks you need to see 1) aren't covered by insurance and 2) are tough to find if you aren't wired into the aeromedical community. You've spoken with an expert in the field. Get your health straight.. then if flying is for you... pursue the medical.

Good luck, sir..
Click to expand...

My health is probably as good as it will ever get and does not effect my ability to fly. I've never been more regretful about enlisting and even more so that I ever made the mistake of going to the VA. My TBI/PTSD is not going to go away. It happened. It doesn't effect this. I can operate a car. I have been trusted to carry firearm in public in perhaps the most anti gun state in the country. I'm trusted to recover bodies and search for murder case evidence. Trusted to administer and dispose of narcotics. Could go on and on...

Yet I'm unsafe to fly what is essentially a sky go-kart now? Ok. This doesn't make sense. I get being safe but youd think they would have a bit more to offer veterans such as they're own basic screen for being "able." I feel like they're tossing out the vast majority of veterans who were in combat from a broad diagnoses that really doesn't mean **** about flying ability in most cases.

I didn't apply to fly A cargo aircraft full of Hazmat cross country. It was a damn single engine private pilot license. And now I can't even fly an ultralite. Outstanding. I've cancelled all interaction with the VA. Mistake from the start.
 
You have TBI and PTSD and don't think that either can/will affect you ability to fly a plane? Okay...
 
Randy said:
And now I can't even fly an ultralite.
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Au contraire! You can still fly ultralights. Some are pretty cool, even if maybe they're not the best cross-country machines. No pilot certificate required.
 
JCranford said:
You have TBI and PTSD and don't think that either can/will affect you ability to fly a plane? Okay...
Click to expand...
Think? No I don't think. I know.
DaleB said:
Au contraire! You can still fly ultralights. Some are pretty cool, even if maybe they're not the best cross-country machines. No pilot certificate required.
Click to expand...
See above. Apparently by getting denied I can no longer fly anything without entering a grey area of the law.
 
Randy said:
See above. Apparently by getting denied I can no longer fly anything without entering a grey area of the law.
Click to expand...
Not gray at all. You can still fly gliders even if you've been denied a medical. That includes, unless I'm mistaken, self-launching motor gliders. Ultralights don't require a license at all, and are certainly open to you. That class includes powered parachutes and the things you think of when you hear "Ultralight" as well as some actual airplanes... Fisher Avenger, Airdrome Bleriot XI, and some others.

You do have to "self certify" every time you fly... in other words, talk to your doctor, monitor your health, take whatever steps are needed to make sure you're safe and fit to fly.
 
DaleB said:
Not gray at all. You can still fly gliders even if you've been denied a medical. That includes, unless I'm mistaken, self-launching motor gliders. Ultralights don't require a license at all, and are certainly open to you. That class includes powered parachutes and the things you think of when you hear "Ultralight" as well as some actual airplanes... Fisher Avenger, Airdrome Bleriot XI, and some others.

You do have to "self certify" every time you fly... in other words, talk to your doctor, monitor your health, take whatever steps are needed to make sure you're safe and fit to fly.
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Although that's not really something I'm very interested in, thank you for clarifying that it's still an option.
 
Beats walking, or wishing you could fly. You owe it to yourself to check out the possibilities. If you want to see the upper limit of what you can do, google "touring motor gliders". It's always seemed to me like a neat little hole in the regs that you can fit a pretty nice airplane through.
 
Mason said:
If the care you have been getting from the VA has been helpful, there seems to be no point in dumping them now. You have earned it, and more.
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Notice I put care in quotes. It's a joke. They've done far more damage than help.

DaleB said:
Beats walking, or wishing you could fly. You owe it to yourself to check out the possibilities. If you want to see the upper limit of what you can do, google "touring motor gliders". It's always seemed to me like a neat little hole in the regs that you can fit a pretty nice airplane through.
Click to expand...

I'll check it out. Until then ill stick with the one they can't take away from me.
 

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To the OP, thank you for your service, and I wish someone had put something like this together for me, or I had found it. I was told by the flight school, "Go to MedXPress and get your medical" after I told them I had diabetes.

Going through the SI Process for T1 Diabetes, and for those that haven't entered the "Hotel California" of the FAA SI process, here are some tips (and if you can't follow this checklist, piloting an aircraft may not be the best decision to make):

1. Review any medical conditions that you may have in this link: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/media/guide.pdf Print out the pages that apply to you.

2. Fill out form 8500-8 on MedXPress. Put all of your information on there. Use a throw away e-mail address, like hotmail or gmail. The reason for using the throw away address is that if you forget something, you can use another one. You can't Print out the form.
3. Contact an AME (Dr. Bruce* included, and recommended) and ask them if they provide an evaluation of your form.
MAKE SURE YOU STATE THAT YOU WILL BRING IN THE PAPER ONE AND STATE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THE MEDXPRESS ONE OPENED. TELL THEM THAT YOU DO NOT WANT THE CLOCK TO START TICKING ON YOUR MEDICAL, AND YOU WILL NEED TIME TO GET THE SI INFORMATION AND THEIR ADVICE ON WHAT INFORMATION IS NEEDED.
DO NOT GIVE THE SERIAL NUMBER THAT MEDXPRESS GIVES YOU TO THE AME AT THIS POINT. THIS IS YOUR FLYING FUTURE ON THE LINE! (THIS IS CRITICAL, BECAUSE ONCE THIS LINE (AME going into MEDXPRESS) IS CROSSED, THERE IS NO GOING BACK. YOU EITHER MUST GET A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE OR BE DENIED.) If you cross the line and fail, you will not be able to fly as a Sport Pilot, be eligible for the new Class 3 passed in July, ever. Well, until you finally pass the Class 3 Medical SI Process.

4. When you have the AME appointment, bring the pages from the AME Guide (on step 1 above) to the appointment, and ask what these things mean, and what you have to do to get the information. Ask the AME if you can enter form 8500-8 at their office. (This will help with step 6, as when you get a positive review of the docs, you can just fill out the form there, or give the Doctor your Serial Number on the form done in step 2.)

5. Go get all of the information that is required. Contact the AME when you get all of the information, and then make another appointment with the AME to review it. Consider asking the AME if you can scan it (must be a PDF) and send it to them via e-mail to make it easier. Don't send them bits and pieces. Have it all** there, and put it in order with naming conventions such as '03_a HbA1C_Measurements' . Also consider storing in on an online system, like OneDrive, that lets you share the link to the documents.

6. When all of the information is gathered, fill out form 8500-8 on MedXPress with a non-throw away e-mail address and all of the applicable information. An alternative, if you have all of the info needed prior to the 60 day MedXpress expiration, is to just give the serial number from step 2 to the AME.

7. Make an appointment with the AME, give them the serial number, and bring all the information in.

8. Wait for the information to be processed by the FAA.

If, at any point before step 6, you are not eligible for a SI or CACI, consider flying with a friend or a Sport Pilot rating. Remember, this is your life, and if you're unsafe to fly as a Private Pilot, you're still unsafe to fly as a Sport Pilot. CFIT in a Cirrus SR20 is just as deadly as CFIT in an RV-12.

*If you do choose Dr. Bruce, consider using something like Microsoft OneDrive to store your documents and share the link with him.
** I had about 40 pages of information to send in.

NOTE: Please feel free to comment/criticize on this. This is my experience hopefully helping out those that may be trying to get an SI. If this post can be a sticky (after evaluation) for those that aren't in perfect*** health, I hope it helps.

*** as defined by the FAA
 
Mason said:
Well, that is not the standard the FAA uses for the Sport Pilot medical. Or the class 3, if you really think about it...
Click to expand...
That was more of a personal opinion, meaning that if you're using 14CFR 61.23.c.2.iv to say, "well, I didn't think that my untreated rabies would render me unable to fly the aircraft, but the FAA won't let me get a Class 3 Medical," you're still unsafe.
 
Randy said:
Thanks for the number. Sounds like I'm basically grounded for life. He said it would be at least $6k, and even if I did it (which he said sounds like a waste) I can't get it in time and need to accept I'm going to get denied.

Thanks FAA. That will teach vets to seek help. When will I learn being too honest always ends up screwing me. Probably not on the next one either.
Click to expand...

Welcome to undetected psychopathy in the medical profession. These are crimes. The lesson to anyone thinking about a voluntary disclosure: DONT DO IT. You will be extorted and forced into joining a cult. Its not help, its psychiatric and financial abuse. Expect to have your life destroyed. Greedy psycho FAA doctors tailor a diagnosis and extort you for large sums of money while they bully and threaten you. The senior AME are acting in collusion with the FAA psychiatrists to profit directly from your treatment which is really medical fraud and abuse.
 
Randy said:
I've been in VA "Care" for seven years. I doubt my issues will ever get any better than they are now.



My health is probably as good as it will ever get and does not effect my ability to fly. I've never been more regretful about enlisting and even more so that I ever made the mistake of going to the VA. My TBI/PTSD is not going to go away. It happened. It doesn't effect this. I can operate a car. I have been trusted to carry firearm in public in perhaps the most anti gun state in the country. I'm trusted to recover bodies and search for murder case evidence. Trusted to administer and dispose of narcotics. Could go on and on...

Yet I'm unsafe to fly what is essentially a sky go-kart now? Ok. This doesn't make sense. I get being safe but youd think they would have a bit more to offer veterans such as they're own basic screen for being "able." I feel like they're tossing out the vast majority of veterans who were in combat from a broad diagnoses that really doesn't mean **** about flying ability in most cases.

I didn't apply to fly A cargo aircraft full of Hazmat cross country. It was a damn single engine private pilot license. And now I can't even fly an ultralite. Outstanding. I've cancelled all interaction with the VA. Mistake from the start.
Click to expand...

I get that you are regretful and remorseful... but a couple things...
1) You can fly an ultralite. No medical is required for part 107 operations.
2) The FAA's sole mission is safety and protecting the general public. Not protecting the airlines or the pilots. And they change at a glacial pace. Dr Chein has been an instrumental part, and plankowner, in those change efforts, particularly in the realm of mental health.
3) Flying a plane is not like operating a car. Irrelevant. And a state issue to issue a DL
4) Flying a plane is not like carrying a weapon. Irrelevant. And a state issue to issue a CHL or LEO credential.
5) The TBI and PTSD is not given a pass, or downgraded because it occurred in the context of military or government service. No special benefit to be had. PTSD when triggered can be disabling to the pilot and his ability to function. It may be a broad brush diagnosis but worst case possibility is still possible, and this is where the line is drawn. And any change will take time, and investment from people with skin in the game.
 
Doggtyred said:
I get that you are regretful and remorseful... but a couple things...
1) You can fly an ultralite. No medical is required for part 107 operations.
2) The FAA's sole mission is safety and protecting the general public. Not protecting the airlines or the pilots. And they change at a glacial pace. Dr Chein has been an instrumental part, and plankowner, in those change efforts, particularly in the realm of mental health.
3) Flying a plane is not like operating a car. Irrelevant. And a state issue to issue a DL
4) Flying a plane is not like carrying a weapon. Irrelevant. And a state issue to issue a CHL or LEO credential.
5) The TBI and PTSD is not given a pass, or downgraded because it occurred in the context of military or government service. No special benefit to be had. PTSD when triggered can be disabling to the pilot and his ability to function. It may be a broad brush diagnosis but worst case possibility is still possible, and this is where the line is drawn. And any change will take time, and investment from people with skin in the game.
Click to expand...

Ya, that was my point also although you said it more eloquently. And this does not necessarily apply to the OP, but Ive seen people claim TBI / PTSD on one hand (to possibly gain some benefit or sympathy) and then on the other hand try to tell everyone that it doesnt disable them when it backfires. Cant have it both ways
 
JCranford said:
Ya, that was my point also although you said it more eloquently.
Click to expand...

It would be nice if you displayed a bit more empathy. The OP is a veteran who has been dealing with health issues going back seven years, and his only treatment option has been the VA. Unless you've been in a cave, it's common knowledge that the VA has not been operated in the best interests of the veterans. That's putting it nicely.

Not only that, the OP has been informed, via more bureaucracy, that he is not going to be a pilot. His efforts and expenditures to this point have been a waste.

He is understandably upset and disillusioned. Like many before him, he has turned to POA looking for help. None is available. In the midst of his expressions of frustration, you made remarks that were less than understanding and followed that up with a blanket shot at those suffering from TBI and PTSD.

A little more compassion might be in order.
 
The fight continues.....

After months of this I finally found a VA center to administer the Core Test Battery. I went in for an overnight visit, and also found a psychiatrist to write up the other half of the report. And then more hold ups.... I wrote the FAA a letter back stating that I had found the required tests and started them, and asked for and extension and some understanding that the VA is incredibly backlogged and slow.

I got impatient and called them, and was extremely happy when the man on the phone looked at my file and said it looks like they are waiving the required tests but want you to fill out some statements regarding your health. And then today I received the official letter of denial... Not exactly what he said on the phone. "For further review please complete the following..." and a bunch of statements.

So i'm confused... i'm officially denied but submit more information for further review? Really they couldn't give me an extension after I told them the situation and that I HAD finally found what they wanted? I don't know if this is good or bad....submit all the requested tests anyway, or do I just submit they "further review information"? Did they even read my letter about having gone to great lengths to finally find what they wanted...



Sorry for my complaining and whining, but yes this is incredibly frustrating. I hate that I had some issues post Afghanistan....and spent a lot of money and time trying to get better. Including $200/hour for outside medical care because the VA is useless. Now it sounds like my long travels and overnight hospital stay may have been pointless too?
 
Randy said:
The fight continues.....

After months of this I finally found a VA center to administer the Core Test Battery. I went in for an overnight visit, and also found a psychiatrist to write up the other half of the report. And then more hold ups.... I wrote the FAA a letter back stating that I had found the required tests and started them, and asked for and extension and some understanding that the VA is incredibly backlogged and slow.

I got impatient and called them, and was extremely happy when the man on the phone looked at my file and said it looks like they are waiving the required tests but want you to fill out some statements regarding your health. And then today I received the official letter of denial... Not exactly what he said on the phone. "For further review please complete the following..." and a bunch of statements.

So i'm confused... i'm officially denied but submit more information for further review? Really they couldn't give me an extension after I told them the situation and that I HAD finally found what they wanted? I don't know if this is good or bad....submit all the requested tests anyway, or do I just submit they "further review information"? Did they even read my letter about having gone to great lengths to finally find what they wanted...



Sorry for my complaining and whining, but yes this is incredibly frustrating. I hate that I had some issues post Afghanistan....and spent a lot of money and time trying to get better. Including $200/hour for outside medical care because the VA is useless. Now it sounds like my long travels and overnight hospital stay may have been pointless too?
Click to expand...

They may not be able to give you an "official" extension. There may be some statutory or administrative timetable to which they have to "officially" adhere, but still exist the possibility of reconsideration after that timetable has expired.

My advice is to call one of the esteemed AME's on this board. It sounds to me that you still have option vis-a-vis the statements they asked you to complete. But if I were you, I'd want to talk to an expert to determine how to answer them honestly, yet in a way that best serves your purpose.

Good luck with this, and thank you for your service.

Rich
 
Contacted Dr Bruce again. Man I haven't been yelled at by an 03 in a while haha....

Great guy for putting up with my questions and helping me out via phone. He said submit all of it. Core test battery, psychiatric evaluation, and the new statements they want. The guy on the phone that got my hopes up was apparently just a clueless phone jockey...
 
Randy said:
Contacted Dr Bruce again. Man I haven't been yelled at by an 03 in a while haha....

Great guy for putting up with my questions and helping me out via phone. He said submit all of it. Core test battery, psychiatric evaluation, and the new statements they want. The guy on the phone that got my hopes up was apparently just a clueless phone jockey...
Click to expand...

It sucks dog balls not hearing what you want to hear and the waiting sucks monkey balls. You have been given the right contact to work with and he has given you the correct advise. Just do as he says. Exhibiting a little patience will go a long way in showing that you can pass these tests. Any other path you take can and will hurt the rest of your process. You made it through basic, you can make it through this. It will require self control, hard work, determination, patience, and probably a few dollars. If you want it, follow the docs prescription!!
 
Randy said:
Contacted Dr Bruce again. Man I haven't been yelled at by an 03 in a while haha....

Great guy for putting up with my questions and helping me out via phone. He said submit all of it. Core test battery, psychiatric evaluation, and the new statements they want. The guy on the phone that got my hopes up was apparently just a clueless phone jockey...
Click to expand...

Never bring a only a knife to a gun fight. Good luck.
 
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