Plane crash at KTRK, pilot killed.

Inverted

Inverted

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Inverted
Inverted said:
http://www.news10.net/news/local/article/203516/2/Pilot-killed-in-crash-at-Truckee-Tahoe-Airport

Been a while since I have flown a single engine piston airplane, but it surprises me that the airplane would be so limited by density altitude at 8:15am with only one person on board. It also shocks me how he decided to play the guessing game instead of actually looking in the AFM to see if it would work or not...
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Somehow I'm not buying a fire department worker deciding what the problem was.

"Because we are a high altitude airport, there are air density issues in the morning and evening with air craft so power can be a problem," Truckee Fire Protection District's Paul Spencer said.
 
Hmmm, not a bad news report for a non pilot reporter...
However, we don't know that the density altitude was...
We don't know if the engine was making full power - such as partially obstructed air filter, low pressure on the fuel pump, etc. (examples - not speculation)
We don't know how far over gross it may have been (or not as the case may be
We don't know how his mental function was (mini stroke - Again: for example, not a speculation)

What we do know is that once a takeoff has been aborted because the plane did not want to fly, you have a mechanic go over it with you - BEFORE you attempt another take off..

It sounds like he was a good guy - a tragedy to lose him...

denny-o
old emr doc...
 
Sad.

Awesome that he had the forethought to check things out alone. Sad that his method of "checking things out" meant he put himself at risk.

RIP
 
I agree with you about not speculating, but I disagree with you about the aborted takeoff and having a mechanic look at it. If the takeoff wasn't aborted for mechanical reasons theres no need to have anyone look at it.

My initial thought was that the airplane couldn't have been making full power, but who knows. Reports say its a Cherokee, which if its a 140 then I could see density altitude being an issue if it was high that morning.

Density altitude at TRK right now is 8,051 feet. He took off almost 2 hours ago. I had been flying to RNO and usually fly over TRK around 8-30am and it feels great temp wise so I would imagine the density altitude not being that high. It hasn't been abnormally hot there all week.
 
Mafoo said:
Sad.

Awesome that he had the forethought to check things out alone. Sad that his method of "checking things out" meant he put himself at risk.

RIP
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Thats just it, he had previously aborted one or two takeoffs with people in it, that should be a sign right there....

I remember years and years ago I did a mountain course/complex endorsement in an Arrow. Me and 2 others at 230pm in July, it was marginally hairy but still doable. That leads me to believe there could have been something wrong with the plane.
 
Inverted said:
I agree with you about not speculating, but I disagree with you about the aborted takeoff and having a mechanic look at it. If the takeoff wasn't aborted for mechanical reasons theres no need to have anyone look at it.

My initial thought was that the airplane couldn't have been making full power, but who knows. Reports say its a Cherokee, which if its a 140 then I could see density altitude being an issue if it was high that morning.

Density altitude at TRK right now is 8,051 feet. He took off almost 2 hours ago. I had been flying to RNO and usually fly over TRK around 8-30am and it feels great temp wise so I would imagine the density altitude not being that high. It hasn't been abnormally hot there all week.
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It's a Comanche, not a Cherokee and he apparently experienced an engine issue.
 
John221us said:
It's a Comanche, not a Cherokee and he apparently experienced an engine issue.
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Yup. According to Mari's second article, it was a Piper Comanche 250. With a single person aboard at 8:30AM, I find it very hard to believe it was merely high density altitude. I really wish he'd had a mechanic look at it, because I'm certain that they'll find some mechanical issue as at least a contributing factor.

He sounds like he was one of the good guys and will be missed.
 
Oh ya if it was a Comanche there is no way it was density altitude, I would find it very very hard to believe :(
 
Apparently he was an ER doc on an Angel Flight. Definately a good guy. RIP
 
Mafoo said:
Kind of elitest to think someone who works for the fire department can't be a pilot ;)
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The quote he gave does not sound like it came from a pilot nor is anything mentioned about him being a pilot in the report.
 
I hate to speculate on this stuff, but the fact that it was a medical humanitarian mission might have led them to pack the aircraft to the point that it was grossly overloaded.
 
Old Geek said:
I hate to speculate on this stuff, but the fact that it was a medical humanitarian mission might have led them to pack the aircraft to the point that it was grossly overloaded.
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Definately not the case, here. He offloaded two passengers, due to an engine issue and attempted a solo take off.
 
I wonder if I will find out more through my Angel Flight West connections. Though I'm not sure they would send out a newsletter with bad news?
 
They wont know anymore than the media does. Seems as though the two passengers that were originally on the airplane will know more than anyone.
 
Mafoo said:
Kind of elitest to think someone who works for the fire department can't be a pilot ;)
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True, but he probably isn't a pilot, based on what he said...
"Because we are a high altitude airport, there are air density issues in the morning and evening with air craft so power can be a problem," Truckee Fire Protection District's Paul Spencer said.

It might be pretty bad there any time of day in the summer, but I'd kinda figure morning and evening would be a lot better than midday. :wink2:

It's a mysterious accident... did he really "play test pilot", thinking there might be a problem with the airplane itself, or was he just confident the DA was the problem, and figured he'd make it OK by himself (at the reduced gross weight)?
 
The Truckee fire protection district has swept up enough shredded aircraft over the years that most of their officers are by now probably somewhat familiar with density altitude issues.
The accident at hand doesn't sound like a DA issue based on the frequently entirelly erroneous initial press reporting.
 
Here are the METARs from yesterday morning:

KTRK 022045Z 30009G19KT 10SM SKC 29/M07 A3027 RMK NO SPECI
KTRK 021945Z 25010G16KT 10SM SKC 29/M09 A3027 RMK NOSPECI
KTRK 021845Z 23004KT 10SM SKC 26/M09 A3028 RMK NOSPECI
KTRK 021750Z 00000KT 10SM SKC 22/M03 A3030 RMK NO SPECI
KTRK 021655Z 00000KT 10SM SKC 19/M03 A3033 RMK NOSPECI
KTRK 021545Z 00000KT 10SM SKC 10/M03 A3033 RMK NOSPECI
KTRK 021455Z 00000KT 10SM SKC 06/M04 A3033 RMK NO SPECI
KTRK 021355Z 00000KT 10SM SKC 00/M03 A3033 RMK NO 24HRMAX 0294 MIN0000
KTRK 021335Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 00/M03 A3033 RMK AO2
KTRK 021315Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 00/M03 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021255Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 00/M03 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021235Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 01/M04 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 00/M03 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021155Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 02/M02 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021135Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 02/M02 A3031 RMK AO2
KTRK 021115Z AUTO 21003KT 10SM CLR 02/M02 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021055Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 03/M02 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021035Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 04/00 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 021015Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 03/M02 A3032 RMK AO2
KTRK 020955Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 05/00 A3032 RMK AO2
 
using the density altitude from the 1655 metar it looks like a density altitude of 7300 feet or so.

The charts in my POH [for a 260C] show a ROC of about 800fpm with full main tanks, 1 200# adult - figure 600 is what I see in practice at that density altitude . . .

it should have been no great effort. Distance over 50' obstacle shows 3000' - adding 50% or so for no test pilot, average technique is maybe 5000'.

Other than a significant mechanic issue, perhaps not leaning the engine? But the witness did not see a huge smoke trail - which if he was full rich is what he would have seen . . . .
 
Whether or not the fire official is a pilot or not, his assessment of the situation is dead on. Truckee gets several crashes a year and the majority of them are because of DA. 7300 DA is nothing... Field elevation is 5901....
 
Only time I ever flew into that airport they had digital signs at the end of the runways with the current density altitude.

Doesn't mean you couldn't ignore it, but, you were definitely reminded by the sign.

dad-picture.jpg
 
comanchepilot said:
using the density altitude from the 1655 metar it looks like a density altitude of 7300 feet or so.

The charts in my POH [for a 260C] show a ROC of about 800fpm with full main tanks, 1 200# adult - figure 600 is what I see in practice at that density altitude . . .

it should have been no great effort. Distance over 50' obstacle shows 3000' - adding 50% or so for no test pilot, average technique is maybe 5000'.

Other than a significant mechanic issue, perhaps not leaning the engine? But the witness did not see a huge smoke trail - which if he was full rich is what he would have seen . . . .
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Using 8:15 AM, the reported time of the crash, I calculated the density altitude as about 6000 feet, so it should have been even less of a problem .
 
jtheune said:
Somehow I'm not buying a fire department worker deciding what the problem was.

"Because we are a high altitude airport, there are air density issues in the morning and evening with air craft so power can be a problem," Truckee Fire Protection District's Paul Spencer said.
Click to expand...

He might be a pilot misquoted by a non-pilot reporter. The journalist might have left out one lousy word. The FD guy might have said, "Because we are a high altitude airport, there are air density issues even in the morning and evening with air craft so power can be a problem."

Dan
 
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