PIREP on KCLT and Wilson Air trip

[ebykowsky]

So, for those of you following on the other thread, I ended up flying into KCLT last night, despite considering finding another nearby airport with a restaurant on field.
Anyway, I'm really glad I decided to fly into CLT, as it was a great experience and gave me tons of confidence dealing with busy airspace and airports.
The first leg of the trip was outside the Bravo, and relatively uneventful, but I picked up FF around 40 miles away from the airport. Was told to expect 18L (winds 220@13G20), which is the runway right next to Wilson Air. Approach sent me the long way around Charlotte to the East, vectoring me around 15nm out from the city and bringing me back around to land from the North. I made great time getting in due to a ~30kt tailwind component, and everything went just as expected. It was a good experience communicating with ATC along with "Heavies" and multiple airliners, but I didn't really feel out of place and ATC was relatively accommodating. Tower got 5 departures off for airliners during the course of my 5mi. final, and after the last one, I was up. There was a good amount of wind shear on final (as reported by the ATIS), which made the landing a bit tense, especially at night, but we got down without anyone having to use a sick-sack.
The taxi to Wilson Air was really short and Tower took me all the way there as opposed to turning me over to ground.

Wilson Air:
I would highly recommend Wilson Air to anyone who needs to stop by in Charlotte, and they treated me no differently than they would treat the guys flying the Gulfstreams in and out of CLT. There was a $15 ramp fee (waived with 10 or 15 gallons of gas, but the FBO I rent out of only reimburses me $3.00/gallon, so I just paid the fee), but the fee was well worth it. The lounge had fresh cookies, mints, good coffee, and quality seating areas, and they set me up within 10 minutes with a free shuttle to and from a nearby restaurant. The staff was very helpful, and on my way out, they handed me a wrapped silver (probably hard chromed plastic) platter full of Christmas cookies and fresh fruit for me to take home! I was able to get ATIS in the lobby and headed out to the plane to head home. A real class act there at Wilson!

Heading Home:
Picked up my clearance, started the engine, and stayed with Cl Deliv. for the short taxi (never had to talk to ground). Took off 18L in front of a landing CRJ, and went straight back to KFDW, no circuitous routes around Charlotte.

Altogether, props to Wilson Air and the guys in the tower at KCLT for making it a great trip! I'll have to say though, it really helped to prepare well for this one beforehand by researching all of the necessary information and having all of the documents like A/FD, sectional, taxi diagram, and frequencies at my fingertips.

 

[Brad Z]

Sounds like a nice trip. What time did you arrive/depart?

Also, did the CD controller or ATIS ask you to stay on the CD frequency? Offpeak, it's usually the same controller so he was probably working both frequencies. Typically you go to the ground frequency so you don't miss an immediate instruction if some is reading back a clearance on the CD frequency and the controller has to step on them to issue an immediate instruction.

 

[ebykowsky]

Sounds like a nice trip. What time did you arrive/depart?

Also, did the CD controller or ATIS ask you to stay on the CD frequency? Offpeak, it's usually the same controller so he was probably working both frequencies. Typically you go to the ground frequency so you don't miss an immediate instruction if some is reading back a clearance on the CD frequency and the controller has to step on them to issue an immediate instruction.

Arrived around 18:00 and departed around 21:00EST. CD just never told me to go to ground. As soon as I finished reading back my clearance, she told me to advise when ready to taxi, gave taxi clearance instructions, and as I was doing my runup, a guy came over the frequency and told me to switch to tower. Initially, CD gave me the departure frequency, never tower freq. So, I'm not exactly sure what went on in the tower for a guy to come over the frequency to tell me to change to tower (which I was in the process of doing anyway after my abbreviated runup, since getting takeoff clearance from CD or Approach would have seemed absurd).

 

[tehmightypirate]

Very interesting. I've always toyed with the thought of going into a Bravo-port but never really thought it worth it. Sounds like you had a lot of fun, though. I too might have to try this some day.

 

[ebykowsky]

Very interesting. I've always toyed with the thought of going into a Bravo-port but never really thought it worth it. Sounds like you had a lot of fun, though. I too might have to try this some day.

As a low hour pilot, I found it not only doable, but a good confidence boost. I had to tell my pax to shut up and leave me alone for 30min of the flight though

 

[Bill Watson]

Arrived around 18:00 and departed around 21:00EST. CD just never told me to go to ground. As soon as I finished reading back my clearance, she told me to advise when ready to taxi, gave taxi clearance instructions, and as I was doing my runup, a guy came over the frequency and told me to switch to tower. Initially, CD gave me the departure frequency, never tower freq. So, I'm not exactly sure what went on in the tower for a guy to come over the frequency to tell me to change to tower (which I was in the process of doing anyway after my abbreviated runup, since getting takeoff clearance from CD or Approach would have seemed absurd).

Good on you!

I would guess that the same person was working CD and ground. Otherwise when you asked for taxi instructions CD would have told you to go to ground. Operating IFR, none of the frequency changes would have be asked for until the switch to departure (and without telling you the freq they gave you at CD). The expectation is that you know all the freqs and when to use them. VFR they try to keep you with the program, thus the request to go to tower during your runup to avoid any dead air. Nicely done all around.

Glad you enjoyed Wilson. You may not believe it, and others might disagree, but they are consistently doing it just about as good as anyone does it anywhere right now. We are looking forward to our NYE trip there and wouldn't even consider another Charlotte area airport solely because of Wilson... and we've been to them all.

So as a debrief, here is how the whole departure thing should go when it's busy:
- Call up CD with your N-number. Stay chill until your call is acknowledged - no urgency here. Best done before engine start but doesn't really matter.
- Once acknowledged, say "N12234 VFR to Fairfield County KFDW, 3500"
- Be ready to write down your altitude, sqawk code and departure freq
- Assuming you have no questions, switch same radio to ground, start engine, etc. Taxi off the line and over towards the edge of (Wilson's) the ramp. This is a great time and place to do your runup and checklists.
- Call ground and request taxi for takeoff - have the taxi diagram in front of you for reference. Big new airport? write the clearance down. Do the read back with emphasis on any hold short instructions. Not absolutely confident? Say "N1234 unfamiliar, progressive please"
- Once you've been cleared to taxi all the way to the departure runway, tune second/primary radio to tower and monitor both freqs if possible
- Once in line or at the runway, switch ground off and tower to transmit. It's always OK to say "N1223 number 3 on 18 left" but it's unnecessary and often unwelcome at a busy airport during a push. Just get in line and know that they know who and where you are. Just be ready to go. Ocassionally you might even be asked to go before someone ahead of you.
- Once cleared, go - ideally have departure dialed up on radio 2 but know the freq. Remember not to climb thru any altitude they gave you at CD.

I have to tell you that the first thing I thought when I read your Pirep is that, "he went at night!! He must be 19 or something 'cause I don't do anything the first time at night.... used to but not now lol"

 

[ebykowsky]

Good on you!

I would guess that the same person was working CD and ground. Otherwise when you asked for taxi instructions CD would have told you to go to ground. Operating IFR, none of the frequency changes would have be asked for until the switch to departure (and without telling you the freq they gave you at CD). The expectation is that you know all the freqs and when to use them. VFR they try to keep you with the program, thus the request to go to tower during your runup to avoid any dead air. Nicely done all around.

Glad you enjoyed Wilson. You may not believe it, and others might disagree, but they are consistently doing it just about as good as anyone does it anywhere right now. We are looking forward to our NYE trip there and wouldn't even consider another Charlotte area airport solely because of Wilson... and we've been to them all.

So as a debrief, here is how the whole departure thing should go when it's busy:
- Call up CD with your N-number. Stay chill until your call is acknowledged - no urgency here. Best done before engine start but doesn't really matter.
- Once acknowledged, say "N12234 VFR to Fairfield County KFDW, 3500"
- Be ready to write down your altitude, sqawk code and departure freq
- Assuming you have no questions, switch same radio to ground, start engine, etc. Taxi off the line and over towards the edge of (Wilson's) the ramp. This is a great time and place to do your runup and checklists.
- Call ground and request taxi for takeoff - have the taxi diagram in front of you for reference. Big new airport? write the clearance down. Do the read back with emphasis on any hold short instructions. Not absolutely confident? Say "N1234 unfamiliar, progressive please"
- Once you've been cleared to taxi all the way to the departure runway, tune second/primary radio to tower and monitor both freqs if possible
- Once in line or at the runway, switch ground off and tower to transmit. It's always OK to say "N1223 number 3 on 18 left" but it's unnecessary and often unwelcome at a busy airport during a push. Just get in line and know that they know who and where you are. Just be ready to go. Ocassionally you might even be asked to go before someone ahead of you.
- Once cleared, go - ideally have departure dialed up on radio 2 but know the freq. Remember not to climb thru any altitude they gave you at CD.

I have to tell you that the first thing I thought when I read your Pirep is that, "he went at night!! He must be 19 or something 'cause I don't do anything the first time at night.... used to but not now lol"

Funny you should say that about going at night (you're about a year over on my age though). It was actually pretty difficult to find the runway. I kind of assumed it would be lit up like Christmas, but there was no RAIL or Rabbit, and the lights were turned on pretty low. I suppose I could have requested more light, but I didn't want to be too much of a nuisance. The other 3 runways were very easy to spot, but 18L just kind of blended in with the sea of other airport lights. However, I don't mind going there at night the first time I try it because there's really not much danger in it. Absolute worst case scenario, I bust a reg or turn onto a wrong taxiway, which would suck, but not kill anyone or hurt any planes most likely. Practicing new maneuvers at night, doing crosswind practice at night that pushes personal limitations, or landing at a tiny strip with trees all around at night for the first time on the other hand would scare me. It was unfortunate though that the "panel light" on the 172 I was flying was crappy, dim overhead light that shines on the panel and is relatively impossible to see by. Thankfully, I was wearing a hat light.

And as far as comms go, I pretty much nailed exactly what you said; the only thing that confused me was that there were two published tower frequencies, and I wasn't sure which one was for which. So, having them tell me which to switch to was nice.
Not too too far off from a class C though.

 

[Brad Z]

CD just never told me to go to ground. As soon as I finished reading back my clearance, she told me to advise when ready to taxi, gave taxi clearance instructions, and as I was doing my runup, a guy came over the frequency and told me to switch to tower. Initially, CD gave me the departure frequency, never tower freq. So, I'm not exactly sure what went on in the tower for a guy to come over the frequency to tell me to change to tower (which I was in the process of doing anyway after my abbreviated runup, since getting takeoff clearance from CD or Approach would have seemed absurd).

It's assumed you'll get your IFR clearance (or state your VFR direction of flight and intentions) on the CD frequency and your taxi clearance on the GROUND frequency. The controller working both ground and CD probably didn't notice you called her back for your taxi clearance on the CD frequency because she was monitoring both. It's also quite possible another controller took over the ground position and attempted to reach you on the GROUND frequency, to no answer, which is why you may have gotten the instruction to switch to TOWER.

When landing, switch to GROUND after clearing the runway, unless instructed otherwise. When requesting taxi, always use the GROUND frequency too, unless told otherwise.

When the same controllers are working multiple positions and monitoring multiple frequencies, you can get alway with being on the "wrong" frequency, but as a matter of safety and procedural appropriateness, it's best to follow the AIM's guidance on operation at towered fields.

Another thing...funny about having trouble seeming the runway. We often image airports as being easy to see and lit up like a christmas tree, but often they are the darkest part of the urban landscape. Even if you're VFR, it's not a bad idea to dial up the ILS frequency of the runway you're landing on to make sure you're lining up for the correct runway.

 

[Bill Watson]

Funny you should say that about going at night (you're about a year over on my age though). It was actually pretty difficult to find the runway. I kind of assumed it would be lit up like Christmas, but there was no RAIL or Rabbit, and the lights were turned on pretty low. I suppose I could have requested more light, but I didn't want to be too much of a nuisance. The other 3 runways were very easy to spot, but 18L just kind of blended in with the sea of other airport lights. However, I don't mind going there at night the first time I try it because there's really not much danger in it. Absolute worst case scenario, I bust a reg or turn onto a wrong taxiway, which would suck, but not kill anyone or hurt any planes most likely. Practicing new maneuvers at night, doing crosswind practice at night that pushes personal limitations, or landing at a tiny strip with trees all around at night for the first time on the other hand would scare me. It was unfortunate though that the "panel light" on the 172 I was flying was crappy, dim overhead light that shines on the panel and is relatively impossible to see by. Thankfully, I was wearing a hat light.

And as far as comms go, I pretty much nailed exactly what you said; the only thing that confused me was that there were two published tower frequencies, and I wasn't sure which one was for which. So, having them tell me which to switch to was nice.
Not too too far off from a class C though.

Yep, 18L doesn't have much off the end. Not sure why since the others have full approach lighting systems. Thanks for an excuse to go study the Terminal Procedures Lighting Legend page!

Re Tower Freqs - KCLT now has 3 different ones based on the runway. They are listed on the Instrument Approach Plates which is what I use - I assume they are in the AFD as well but I rarely go there. Good thing to know but a call on the one listed on the sectional/TAC will get you a quick correction if needed. At KCLT though, you will (almost) always be operating on 18L/36R or 23 and they are 118.1 as listed on the Sectional.

I think the Airport Diagram that's available for almost all large airports is the single best piece of paper/image that you can have for large airport ops - all taxiways and freqs. That may be in the AFD, not sure.

Nothing wrong with doing it at night... I'm just on the other side of 21 by a pretty good margin. I do night landings at home which is a tree lined, minimally lit slash in the grass, but then I've done hundreds of them here. Otherwise, I try to stay in the light.

Remember to remove your head lamp before leaving the plane so you don't scare anyone. :wink2:

Bill "prepping for my first Pilot and Paws flight tomorrow" Watson