Piper Saratoga Turbocharged Climb settings

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Scott@KTYR

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Scott@KTYR
I have a question about Piper Saratoga Turbocharged Climb settings.

I have read the POH cover to cover several times and cannot find what I am looking for.

In a Non Turbo Piper I was told to climb at 2500 RPM and 25 in. M.P.

In a Turbocharged Toga I was told to takeoff at 2700 RPM and 30 in. M.P.

Once off the ground and climb is established I reduce the RPM to 2500.

My question is do I keep the M.P. at 30 in. or deduce to 25 in.?

I was also told to reduce the M.P. at 1 inch per min.
 
From what I've read it's approved for balls to the wall climb (all knobs forward) just lean as you're climbing, it won't hurt to reduce RPM to 2500 to reduce noise in the climb.
 
Thanks PBristolJr for the input.
I have a book from Lycoming that says on a Turbocharged engine to use Full Rich on climb. They also talk about not Overboosting the turbo by pushing it to full throttle. The problem with the book is they do not give exact numbers to use for climb.
 
If it helps...

I fly a 2008 Matrix...

...take off at 40+in 2450 RPM...full rich(40ish GPH)
...climb at 35in 32GPH 2450 RPM @125ktas
...then throttle back to 29 in 21GPH and 2400 RPM.
 
You wouldn't want to go 25" for climb, remember, the turbocharged engines have a lower compression ratio plus back pressure from the turbo, so you won't make the same power at 25" as you would in a naturally aspirated engine. The 30" is going to make about the same power. IIRC the engine is continuous duty rated to handle the power. So it comes down to how much performance you want, run top of the green arcs at 200°ROP for max performance climb and then pull the mixtures for 20°LOP for performance cruise, and pull the props back to the bottom of the green arc for economy cruise.
 
This is good, I was hoping the POH manual I ordered to read on the 98 saratoga II TC I'm in process of purchasing would arrive today but it hasn't. In my T182t I rarely leaned until in cruise Sometimes I would reduce prop sometimes I wouldn't depended on any noise procedures.

What little I have read the toga can be flown full throttle with little worries but I sure want to read the POH.
 
Jthamilton - Congrats on the Toga purchase.

I have a 1980 Toga with a TIO-540-S1AD engine. Both the POH and the Lycoming book say for the best life of the Turbocharged engine you need to run it at 65% power. They say you can run at 75% power but it shorten the life.
 
I would agree with this. I've never been big fan of pushing that spinning thing in front much more than 65%, occasionally I will do little more than that! but return in performance isn't earth shattering.

Yep can't wait to go pick it up. I have close to 300 hours in a NA Cherokee six. Now live in Colorado and won't be without a turbo again. It's gonna be fun for the family for sure.
 
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Henning said:
You wouldn't want to go 25" for climb, remember, the turbocharged engines have a lower compression ratio plus back pressure from the turbo, so you won't make the same power at 25" as you would in a naturally aspirated engine. The 30" is going to make about the same power. IIRC the engine is continuous duty rated to handle the power. So it comes down to how much performance you want, run top of the green arcs at 200°ROP for max performance climb and then pull the mixtures for 20°LOP for performance cruise, and pull the props back to the bottom of the green arc for economy cruise.
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Henning –
For the last two days I have been reading articles about GAMI Injectors and running LOP. Do you have any thoughts on or experience with GAMI’s and running LOP? Sounds like the way to go.

Scott
 
Most turbonormalized Lycoming engine operation manuals I have seen and read [for the Bellanca Viking and the straight legged Saratoga] allow full power for 5 min or so and maximum sustained power settings are 27" and 2400 rm. You might want to look for the Lycoming engine manual for your engine and for the turbonormalized engines in general.

You can try to operate your engine LOP in which case you will add back in 2" of MP usually but you need to still obey the limitations of 27" of MP - which means you need to go LOP at 25" of MP with a good engine monitor, add the 2" back in - and manage closely the detonation margin - keeping in mind you will ONLY go as fast as the 25" of MP will allow ROP at max TIT plus maybe a knot or two.

There are lots of reasons in a turbo to go LOP - one of which is TIT about the same as your EGT setting which is a lot lower than it normally is - cooler is better but since the engine is not stressed for turbocharged operations you will slow down . . . only actually flying your airplane LOP will allow you to decide if its worth it overall. . . .


[edit] remember that the turbo normalized engine is basically a regular ordinary engine that uses a turbo to make it believe it is at 3000MSL its whole life . . . whereas a turbocharged engine has beefed up components [theoretically in the case of the Conti in the Arrow] to allow it to operate boosted . . .. different beasts designed for a different purpose . . .
 
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Scott@KTYR said:
Henning –
For the last two days I have been reading articles about GAMI Injectors and running LOP. Do you have any thoughts on or experience with GAMI’s and running LOP? Sounds like the way to go.

Scott
Click to expand...

They're good if you need them. You only need them if you can't get a decent balance without them.
 
First, no leaning in the climb at full power on this engine other than as directed by the POH (IIRC, there are fuel flows established at various altitudes, but I don't have the POH in front of me).

Second, the engine limits change depending on the prop. With the 2-bladed prop, you are limited to five minutes with full power (36"/2700 RPM), and then you have to pull the RPM back to 2575 and manage the throttle to stay at/below 36" MP. With the 3-bladed prop, you can run 36/2700 continuously all the way to 16,000 feet. Many people still pull the prop back to 2575 during normal climb even if full power is allowable, just to cut noise (you only lose 6HP in the process, but it gets a lot quieter both inside and on the ground below).

Third, you always need to mind your MP with this engine at full throttle. Particularly on cold days, it's possible for the MP to boost itself past the 36" redline with full throttle. In theory, the waste gate controller should prevent this, but my experience in Turbo PA32's suggests you shouldn't rely on that.

Finally, don't be distracted by the operating procedures for other engines in other aircraft. Stick with what applies to this engine in this aircraft.
 
Ron Levy said:
First, no leaning in the climb at full power on this engine other than as directed by the POH (IIRC, there are fuel flows established at various altitudes, but I don't have the POH in front of me).

Second, the engine limits change depending on the prop. With the 2-bladed prop, you are limited to five minutes with full power (36"/2700 RPM), and then you have to pull the RPM back to 2575 and manage the throttle to stay at/below 36" MP. With the 3-bladed prop, you can run 36/2700 continuously all the way to 16,000 feet. Many people still pull the prop back to 2575 during normal climb even if full power is allowable, just to cut noise (you only lose 6HP in the process, but it gets a lot quieter both inside and on the ground below).

Third, you always need to mind your MP with this engine at full throttle. Particularly on cold days, it's possible for the MP to boost itself past the 36" redline with full throttle. In theory, the waste gate controller should prevent this, but my experience in Turbo PA32's suggests you shouldn't rely on that.

Finally, don't be distracted by the operating procedures for other engines in other aircraft. Stick with what applies to this engine in this aircraft.
Click to expand...

Ron – Thanks for the input.

I found it interesting in the POH in Section 2 LIMITATIONS
They say 3 blade prop Tach Green Arc is 500 to 2700 and
Red line (takeoff power) 2700 RPM
Manifold Pressure Green Arc is 11 to 36 and
Red Line (takeoff power) 36”
And the same numbers are used in the Climb charts in Section 5 of the POH

But somewhere (I do not remember where) I read that Takeoff power (RED LINE) should only be applied for no more than 5 min. and to back off to a climb setting. I am guessing this info was not in the POH because I do not remember any Climb Setting numbers.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
But somewhere (I do not remember where) I read that Takeoff power (RED LINE) should only be applied for no more than 5 min. and to back off to a climb setting.
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Where you read that is important. It could have been in another airplane's POH and does not apply.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
But somewhere (I do not remember where) I read that Takeoff power (RED LINE) should only be applied for no more than 5 min. and to back off to a climb setting. I am guessing this info was not in the POH because I do not remember any Climb Setting numbers.
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As I said, that 5-minute limit applies only to the 2-bladed prop. I think if you check carefully enough in a PA32-301T POH with all published revisions you'll find that limitation in Section 2.
 
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