Piper fuel pump usage/overusage?

The last time I did several landings in a closed pattern (for nighttime currency) I left the pump on the whole time, mostly to save wear and tear on the switch. That, and the dman thing wasn't easy to see in the dark.
 
Henning said:
Not sure, could be an MSB, all I know is that they are now required to be rigged so the boost pump is on low with the master.
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Hmmmm. I'd like to see a reference for that one.

I think you are confusing the electric engine fuel pump for the electric tip tank fuel transfer pump, which does come on with the master switch.

The tip tank transfer pump is wired through the landing light CB.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Hmmmm. I'd like to see a reference for that one.

I think you are confusing the electric engine fuel pump for the electric tip tank fuel transfer pump, which does come on with the master switch.

The tip tank transfer pump is wired through the landing light CB.
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Hmmm... Where does the tip tank transfer pump transfer to?
 
Sac Arrow said:
I don't think I've ever actually used the boost pump on the Turbo Arrow so I don't know. In the Arrow II, no difference.
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The primer uses the boost pump on the TSIO-360-F
 
Henning said:
Hmmm... Where does the tip tank transfer pump transfer to?
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You own a 310 and flew a 421, and you don't know the answer to that? :dunno:

In the twin Cessna’s with tip tanks, they found that if you were low on fuel and in a fairly steep nose down attitude the fuel pump could not pick up that last ~ 5 gallons of fuel from the front of the tank. The solution was to put a transfer tube at the front of the tip tank - and have a constant running electric fuel pump draw fuel from that area and put it next to the fuel pump. The operation of these pumps should be checked during preflight – just turn the battery master switch on and go out and listen to these “ticker” pumps (located at the rear of each tank) operate. If no noise – no go. They are required to be operating to fly
 
Interesting, nope, did not know that. It was explained to me incorrectly and I've never taken the system apart before to find out differently.
 
Henning said:
Interesting, nope, did not know that. It was explained to me incorrectly and I've never taken the system apart before to find out differently.
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Interesting. That's a very basic part of the preflight on any twin Cessna. It's even discussed in the POH.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Interesting. That's a very basic part of the preflight on any twin Cessna. It's even discussed in the POH.
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I knew the pump should be running, did not know it was an extra pump tossed in. BTW, It's not mentioned in my POH as it didn't exist when my POH was written.
 
Henning said:
I knew the pump should be running, did not know it was an extra pump tossed in. BTW, It's not mentioned in my POH as it didn't exist when my POH was written.
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OK.

But you have stated previous to owning the 310 you flew 421 for someone, and it is in the POH of the 421 (as it is with all later 300 and 400 series).
 
RotorAndWing said:
OK.

But you have stated previous to owning the 310 you flew 421 for someone, and it is in the POH of the 421 (as it is with all later 300 and 400 series).
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20 years is a long time past a checkout, but I don't remember that being brought up. However, I will admit not having read the POH word for word.
 
kontiki said:
I believe the handbook for the PA-28-201 has you use the electric pump to change tanks too. Could be nice to have on if there is a vapor bubble in the lines when you switch over.
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Probably, as it has the Lycoming engine. The 201T, no.

Clark1961 said:
The primer uses the boost pump on the TSIO-360-F
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I had a separate primer button on mine but that may well be so.
 
Anthony said:
I leave it on until I am at 1,500 ft AGL, and turn it on a few miles out from entering the pattern.

I replaced one also several years ago.
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I use mine in a similar manner. Does not hurt to run it a few minutes longer. Generally I turn it on/off with the landing light.

Handbook on the lycoming warrior does call for the pump on when switching tanks
 
dell30rb said:
I use mine in a similar manner. Does not hurt to run it a few minutes longer. Generally I turn it on/off with the landing light.

Handbook on the lycoming warrior does call for the pump on when switching tanks
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This is what I do, same thing for switching tanks.
 
Clark1961 said:
The prime button just runs the fuel pump in low (IIRC).
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Primer button on a Continental set up should activate on 'High' IIRC. I use high pump full throttle mixture rich till the needle hits up for between a 4 and 7 count depending on the conditions, bring the mixture back to '6' (where I find it leans well for idle) and the throttle back to about 1.5" off the idle stops. Hot start or cold, they start in 2-3 blades on IO-470Ds.
 
Henning said:
Primer button on a Continental set up should activate on 'High' IIRC. I use high pump full throttle mixture rich till the needle hits up for between a 4 and 7 count depending on the conditions, bring the mixture back to '6' (where I find it leans well for idle) and the throttle back to about 1.5" off the idle stops. Hot start or cold, they start in 2-3 blades on IO-470Ds.
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You are correct, high it is. On the TSIO-360-F the primer button activates high side of the pump and opens the valve to the a separate primer system (two primer nozzles).

(reading the POH is a good thing, should have done it before I posted).
 
Clark1961 said:
You are correct, high it is. On the TSIO-360-F the primer button activates high side of the pump and opens the valve to the a separate primer system (two primer nozzles).

(reading the POH is a good thing, should have done it before I posted).
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Note to self... Read the POH before posting.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Note to self... Read the POH before posting.
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It's simple really, there are only 2 options on how it works with FI, 'Low' on a Continental is the same as 'On' with a Lycoming/Bendix which also BTW is as with a carb; it acts as a lift pump to provide the engine with fuel in normal operations. High on a Continental is a high rate delivery for priming and running the engine in a injection pump failure scenario. If you turn a Continental on 'High' to swap tanks on a running engine, unless you are super hard LOP, you'll kill the engine flooding it.
 
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I keep the fuel pump on until I complete the after takeoff checklist, and turn it back on when I'm setting up for my downwind to base turn.

If I'm doing pattern work, I just leave it on full time, much like the landing light. Too much chance to forget turning it back on if I turn it off all the time.
 
Leave it on during takeoff and landing. Dont worry about it wearing out. Its not a gravity feed system and if you lose a pump during a critical stage, you wont even know till you cut the pump off on the ground. :D
 
One thing that I try to do on every flight is actually verify that both pumps work. I turn on the electric pump before I start the engine and watch the fuel pressure come up. Then I start the engine. Once the engine is running I shut off the electric pump. If the engine continues to run I know that the mechanical pump is working. Then I just turn it back on right before I take the runway.

I've seen quite a few pilots turn the electric pump on to start the engine and leave it on until they're at 1500 ft. I'd rather not have the 1500 ft mark be the first time that I've verified that the mechanical pump is functional.
 
jason said:
One thing that I try to do on every flight is actually verify that both pumps work. I turn on the electric pump before I start the engine and watch the fuel pressure come up. Then I start the engine. Once the engine is running I shut off the electric pump. If the engine continues to run I know that the mechanical pump is working. Then I just turn it back on right before I take the runway.

I've seen quite a few pilots turn the electric pump on to start the engine and leave it on until they're at 1500 ft. I'd rather not have the 1500 ft mark be the first time that I've verified that the mechanical pump is functional.
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That's the checklist procedure. The runup should be done with the aux pump off; then back on before takeoff.
 
jason said:
One thing that I try to do on every flight is actually verify that both pumps work. I turn on the electric pump before I start the engine and watch the fuel pressure come up. Then I start the engine. Once the engine is running I shut off the electric pump. If the engine continues to run I know that the mechanical pump is working. Then I just turn it back on right before I take the runway.

I've seen quite a few pilots turn the electric pump on to start the engine and leave it on until they're at 1500 ft. I'd rather not have the 1500 ft mark be the first time that I've verified that the mechanical pump is functional.
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My cold start in the Arrow is to turn on the pump, prime, turn it off, start, and off until pre-takeoff checks.
 
jason said:
One thing that I try to do on every flight is actually verify that both pumps work. I turn on the electric pump before I start the engine and watch the fuel pressure come up. Then I start the engine. Once the engine is running I shut off the electric pump. If the engine continues to run I know that the mechanical pump is working. Then I just turn it back on right before I take the runway.

I've seen quite a few pilots turn the electric pump on to start the engine and leave it on until they're at 1500 ft. I'd rather not have the 1500 ft mark be the first time that I've verified that the mechanical pump is functional.
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To be honest, sometimes I forget to turn the pump back on to start the engine. Leaving it off only seems to be a problem on hot starts.
 
Sac Arrow said:
To be honest, sometimes I forget to turn the pump back on to start the engine. Leaving it off only seems to be a problem on hot starts.
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What is your hot start process in the Arrow?
 
alfadog said:
What is your hot start process in the Arrow?
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Same as the cold start process, but don't prime. Throttle cracked, mixture idle cutoff, fuel pump on, crank until it starts to fire, then advance mixture forward.

Also hot starts are easier if on shutdown, you gradually decrease the mixture letting almost to the point of roughness for a bit, letting the fuel burn off before shutting the mixture off completely. I never turn the engine off by turning the mags off first, always the mixture, then the mags.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Same as the cold start process, but don't prime. Throttle cracked, mixture idle cutoff, fuel pump on, crank until it starts to fire, then advance mixture forward.

Also hot starts are easier if on shutdown, you gradually decrease the mixture letting almost to the point of roughness for a bit, letting the fuel burn off before shutting the mixture off completely. I never turn the engine off by turning the mags off first, always the mixture, then the mags.
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Same here except I don't run the pump except to prime for cold start.
 
We had Weldon electric fuel pumps on the Hughes 269 series helicopters. They were used to prime the engine, then after start brought back on. The POH stated it should be on for take off and landing and below 1'000 ft agl but we let them run continuous (as most operators do).
 
jesse said:
Does anyone [kill the engine with the mags]?
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My O-200 is hand-started, and hot starts can be a pain. If I'm just stopping for 5 minutes for gas and a pee then I'll leave the mixture at an appropriate setting and turn off the (electronic) ignition to kill it. This leaves a good fuel/air mix in the cylinders and it will then start on the first pull.
 
pericynthion said:
My O-200 is hand-started, and hot starts can be a pain. If I'm just stopping for 5 minutes for gas and a pee then I'll leave the mixture at an appropriate setting and turn off the (electronic) ignition to kill it. This leaves a good fuel/air mix in the cylinders and it will then start on the first pull.
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Same here with the Luscombe A-65. End of the day it is "mixture, mags, master" like anything else.
 
CMTowner said:
Yes, I do this every few months to make sure the mags are grounding out. I don't want to leave my plane with a hot mag.
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I occasionally do a mag check, but I don't totally shut the engine down, I just kill them momentarily, then shut the engine down with the mixture.
 
CMTowner said:
Yes, I do this every few months to make sure the mags are grounding out. I don't want to leave my plane with a hot mag.
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You can do that without completely shutting down.
 
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