Piper Aztec models?

C

craigvince

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
193
Display Name
Display name:
Craig
How do I determine the model (A, B, C, etc) of a specific Aztec?
Is there a database by serial number? I found the Wiki description of what each one is, but nothing to tell me which one a specific plane is.
 
FAA registration database says 27-232 was built in 1960, which would make it one of the original (no suffix) Aztecs.

The '60 and '61 Aztecs had the short, Apache-like nose. The Aztec B with elongated proboscis and front baggage area was introduced in 1962. In late 1964 the Aztec C appeared, with sleeker cowlings ("Tiger Shark" nacelles with extended prop shafts), and optional turbocharging. The Aztec D (1968) had a redesigned instrument panel.

Piper did not use an 'A' suffix in its marketing. By the 1960s the pattern was that the original model of each type had no suffix, and the second version was 'B'.

pa-23-250_1960.jpg


pa-23-250_1963.jpg


pa-23-250_1965.jpg


pa-23-250_1969.jpg
 
Last edited:
Red Air Rambo said:
There was a Geronimo aftermarket conversion too.:idea:
Click to expand...
I'm familiar with the Geronimo conversion for the Apache, with an enlarged tail and 170HP engines (bigger than the original 150/160's), but I never heard of a Geronimo conversion for an Aztec. What's included there?

BTW, I believe the earlier snub-nosed Aztecs (up through A model) had the 235 HP carbureted version of the O-540 and only five seats, while the later shark-nosed versions (C-F) had fuel injected 250HP IO-540's and six seats.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm familiar with the Geronimo conversion for the Apache, with an enlarged tail and 170HP engines (bigger than the original 150/160's), but I never heard of a Geronimo conversion for an Aztec. What's included there?

BTW, I believe the earlier snub-nosed Aztecs (up through A model) had the 235 HP carbureted version of the O-540 and only five seats, while the later shark-nosed versions (C-F) had fuel injected 250HP IO-540's and six seats.
Click to expand...

You are probably correct...I'm not a Piper expert...I have a freind with a Geronimo and I thought he said it was an Axtec conversion.
 
Ron Levy said:
BTW, I believe the earlier snub-nosed Aztecs (up through A model) had the 235 HP carbureted version of the O-540 and only five seats, while the later shark-nosed versions (C-F) had fuel injected 250HP IO-540's and six seats.
Click to expand...
All Aztecs were built with 250 hp per side - carbureted through Aztec B; injected beginning with the 'C'.

You're thinking of the short-lived "Apache 235", a separate model introduced around the time the long-nose Aztec B came out, after some 500 Aztecs had already been built. The Apache 235 was concurrently marketed as an "economy" alternative to the Aztec. Other than the de-rated engines, it was identical to the earlier Aztecs.

Aztecs and Apache 235 have serial numbers that start with "27-". Apaches and Aztecs were all called "PA-23" in the marketing, but internally Piper used "PA-27" to differentiate the Aztec and Apache 235 from the round-tail Apaches.

Only serials 27-505 through 27-622 were Apache 235s. Aztecs were 27-1 through 27-504, then started a new series at 27-2000 and went up from there.

Apache 235:

pa-23-235.jpg
 
Last edited:
So, mine is a 1960, but has the longer nose. I believe it was modified after factory.
89_9.jpg


Also, as I don't have much experience with Aztecs, I'm not sure if the panel is older style or newer style.

89_2.jpg
 
Similar to Craig's query above, is there a way to confirm that S/N 27-3966 from 1968 is a D model? A friend has insisted it is a C model but my information indicates it's a D. Also, the engines listed on the FAA Registry show as TIO but they are IO-540-J4A5 with AiResearch turbos which are a separate system activated by toggle switches...
 
aviatrixnv said:
Similar to Craig's query above, is there a way to confirm that S/N 27-3966 from 1968 is a D model? A friend has insisted it is a C model but my information indicates it's a D. Also, the engines listed on the FAA Registry show as TIO but they are IO-540-J4A5 with AiResearch turbos which are a separate system activated by toggle switches...
Click to expand...
One look in the cockpit will tell you for sure. The C-model has the old D-shaped yoke, "shotgun" panel layout, and identically-shaped roundish knobs on the power levers. The D-model has the more modern U-shaped yoke, modern standard-T instrument panel, and the different shaped throttle (round black), prop (gear-tooth blue), and mixture (bumpy red) knobs.
 
Ron Levy said:
One look in the cockpit will tell you for sure. The C-model has the old D-shaped yoke, "shotgun" panel layout, and identically-shaped roundish knobs on the power levers. The D-model has the more modern U-shaped yoke, modern standard-T instrument panel, and the different shaped throttle (round black), prop (gear-tooth blue), and mixture (bumpy red) knobs.
Click to expand...
Apache 235 and Aztec B/C panel (yokes removed to show panel layout):

pa-23-250_1964_pnl.jpg



Aztec D panel:

pa-23-250_1969_pnl.jpg



I have a book at home that may show the serial numbers of the various Aztec models. I'll check it this evening.
 
I had a 69 Aztec D for 4 years and 1,000 hours.

What do you want to know about Aztecs?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I had a 69 Aztec D for 4 years and 1,000 hours.

What do you want to know about Aztecs?
Click to expand...

Hi Ted,

I have several hours in an Aztec D like yours. I fly in the Caribbean and I own a C172. In this area ALL the flights are overwater and I am thinking about upgrading to a twin. Aztecs are very popular here (Rugged, load haulers, easy to fly..) but I want to know (+/-) what is the operating cost per hour of an Aztec if you dont mind sharing that info..

Thanks!
 
As with any plane, hourly costs depend on how you run it and how you maintain it. I bought a plane that needed more maintenance early on. Dry costs for the airframe I found to be about $150/hr for the time I owned it, and I paid people to do virtually all MX. Expensive items I had to deal with included the de-ice system (tail boots), a cracked engine mount, and a top overhaul on one engine due to poor cylinders installed by the previous owner. Add hangar and insurance as appropriate. You wouldn't want de-ice unless you come to the states in winter.

For fuel, if you run ROP it'll be 28 GPH to keep cylinders cool. If you run LOP, it'll be 21 GPH most of the time. I ran it LOP the whole time I owned it and it loved it.

Aztecs aren't speed demons by any means, and they aren't the most efficient. The 310 has lower $/hr than the Aztec because it has enough extra speed to offset the fuel burn. The Aztec is also extremely rugged and has great ventilation, which makes it tolerable in warm climates, even without air conditioning. I would land the Aztec anywhere - I won't do the same for the 310.
 
Thanks Ted...

I have some experience with a D model. Question, 21 gph LOP... At what altitude? That seems low for a pair of 540. The lowest I can get is about 26 gph (+/-) 8000 ft. For this part of the world it is almost a perfect airplane..

Lets see..
 
Cmercado said:
Thanks Ted...

I have some experience with a D model. Question, 21 gph LOP... At what altitude? That seems low for a pair of 540. The lowest I can get is about 26 gph (+/-) 8000 ft. For this part of the world it is almost a perfect airplane..

Lets see..
Click to expand...

I pretty much saw that from 6,000 ft up through 12,000 in all but the coldest of days at 2300 RPM. Your engines need to be in good running order - clean injectors, maybe GAMIs (I didn't have them), good ignition system, no induction leaks - and lean to keep the hottest CHT right about at 380F with the cowl flaps half open above 32F. You'll need an engine monitor - the factory CHT gauges are way off. It is difficult because you are running on the edge of where the engines want to run on the lean side, but I've got about 1,000 hours of time flying that way.

The engines are 540s, but they're low powered 540s at only 250 HP a side. With the 300 HP 520s in the 310 we're able to get down to not much different fuel burn at 2300 RPM.
 
I have no engine monitor on my friend's Aztec. The issue is that our OAT is close to 95 degrees even in "winter". I stop leaning when rough then two clicks forward, the good old way. Usually I get between 26-28 gph.

The original CHT gauges are in the 3/4 of the green arc at that setting, but who knows what the real temp is (And that is with the cowl flaps open almost all of the time).

I am still undecided about the twin. Moving from a 172 to an Aztec is a big jump money wise. But as I grow older I can hear a lot more noises when flying over water :rofl::rofl::rofl:

FWIW our usual overwater legs are between 80 to 150 NM...

Still thinking...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top