Pilot watches

Skip Miller

Skip Miller

Final Approach
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Skip Miller
I think this thread was discussed on the other board a while ago... but I am tasked to suggest a pilot watch to a relative, who will go buy it for me. Surprise! Not really, and a really nice gift too. My desire is to get a watch with a quartz movement, not a mechanical movement. Google comes up with a brand name:TORGOEN that I have never heard of. Is this any good?

Any other suggestions? I don't need E6B functions, I don't need altimeters, just a great watch, easy to read in the cockpit, looks good in the bar, and a stopwatch function. If the other gizmo features are there, then that's ok, too but they are not necessary.

Any suggestions?

-Skip
 
Why not mechanical? You can get a quality Seiko, mechanical, automatic movement, Submariner for $70 on Ebay. Its my everyday watch including flying and I have other more expensive watches. And, you don't have to worry about the batteries dieing at the worst moment, which has happened to me and that's why I'm strictly mechanical.

Get this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31387&item=5008080478&rd=1
 
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I was looking at the Citizen "Eco Drive" aviator watches. Lot's of gizmo features, E6B, multiple time zones, LCD and mechanical displays, the special features is a solar cell built into the face, never needs a battery, runs on light and will keep accurate time for years in the dark.

I was really digging on the Blue Angels model in titanium. Way lighter than stainless.
 
My personal watch is the Seiko SNA414. Available from Amazon.com for $240.
 
larrysb said:
I was looking at the Citizen "Eco Drive" aviator watches. Lot's of gizmo features, E6B, multiple time zones, LCD and mechanical displays, the special features is a solar cell built into the face, never needs a battery, runs on light and will keep accurate time for years in the dark.

I was really digging on the Blue Angels model in titanium. Way lighter than stainless.
Click to expand...

That's what I have. Great watch but don't expect to use the E6B without a magnifying glass. Backside of the watch is the Blue Angels shield.

See it here: http://www.citizenwatch.com/us/frame_noflash.html under the SKYHAWK Collection.
 
Anthony said:
Why not mechanical?
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I have a Breitling, high quality mechanical watch. First, it is very thick and heavy as lead. Really helpful in bar fights but I don't do that much anymore! LOL! Secondly, it does not keep good time. I'm spoiled by watches that are good to seconds per month at worst, and this one cannot be adjusted (according to Breitling) to better than 30 seconds per week. Finally, and the real last straw, it requires maintenance to the tune of about $300 every three years, or it really begins losing time. I'm buying a new watch every three years but what I get is the old watch back.

Fidgety time setting, too: about one time in five something locks the self-wind mechanism and a day or so later it stops.

Oh yes, the former wife gave it to me, too. Time to put it in the drawer, maybe on E-bay!

Sure I fly a 40 year old plane with 60 year old technology. Because that's what is available to me. Watches can be better. The Breitling in my opinion is a good looking piece of jewelry that tells time, if you are not too particular. I want a watch that looks good, not jewelry.

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
The Breitling in my opinion is a good looking piece of jewelry that tells time, if you are not too particular. I want a watch that looks good, not jewelry.

-Skip
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That depends on the model. The newer Breitling are too big and flashy, but the olders ones were tasteful chronographs. Your are correct, mechanical watches are not as accurate as quartz, but are still very accurate. I rarely have to adjust my mechanical watches. If they are automatic movements (self winding), which you probably have, then yes they are bigger an heavier. A movement that must be wound is much slimmer and lighter, even though, my automatic, self winding Seiko is very thin and light. Much thinner than my older Breitling, or Sinn (which is not sold in the U.S., but you can get them if you look in Ebay). The only watch approved by NASA for EVA's (spacewalks), Omega Speedmaster Pro is mechanical. I've got onen and it is very accurate and pretty slim. You can see it featured in the film "Apollo 13" where its used to time the engine burn. True story. None of my mechanical watches have been back for adjustment in over 12 years. YMMV.

Nothing wrong with quartz if you remember to change the batteries.

Ed Loebl, a fellow pilot, AOPA member and former AOPA Webboarder is one of the premier high end watch dealers. He has some good stuff here:

http://www.watchseller.com/index.html
 
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So far there is no response on the TORGOEN brand name. I'm about to rule out that name due to lack of anyone with either positive or negative experience. Last call on Torgoen!

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
So far there is no response on the TORGOEN
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*snaps fingers* Gee, I just ran out...

Dyslexic's of the world UNTIE!
 
Skip Miller said:
So far there is no response on the TORGOEN brand name. I'm about to rule out that name due to lack of anyone with either positive or negative experience. Last call on Torgoen!

-Skip
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I have seen Torgeon advertised, but I have no personal nor anecdotal experience with them. Whatever you do, though, stay away from Chase-Durer.

When I used t wear a quarts to fly, I wore a Luminox "Navy Seals" dive watch. It has the tritium vials that glow in the dark no matter what. Great for night and it was a good running watch. Bullet proof, and a good scuba watch, but not too big and clunky like some dive watches. But the battery died and I haven't gotten around to sending it in and its been three or so years.
 
All of these watches are big and manly. Anything smaller? I don't usually get into bar fights.
 
Here is a little bit of a twist on the subject of Pilot Watches.

For Father's Day I received a watch from my kids. Purchased with their own money (earned by selling stale Oreo cookies to 8th graders on the school bus).

The watch has no name on it what so ever. Strap attaches by way of copious amounts of Velcro. So far it has kept perfect time (as cross checked with KYW, 1060 AM in Philadelphia area, all news all the time). The watch functions -- dual time zones, alarm, stop watch with split capability and a light. The cost, $6.99 at K-Mart.

It is a great watch for many reasons, chief among them - my kids gave it to me. A reason that it might appeal to other pilots; less money spent on watch equals more money for flying time. :<)

Now, don't get me wrong I have at least two watches that have a combined total of 10 buttons, 52 time zones, 7 hands, 4 LCD displays, 3 alarms, 2 E6Bs, lights and a partridge in a pear tree but who really needs all that stuff. Actually I do miss using the E6B ring but I can't see the numbers on it anymore anyway.

Also, if you want the watch to impress people at the bar. Don't buy the watch, just pull out the big cash roll instead.

Len

P.S. Toby, my wife took the kids Fathers Day shopping, saw the watches on sale and bought a nice looking ladies watch for herself.

P.P.S. A good habit to get into is writing down the time you complete the pre take off checklist no matter what kind of watch is on your wrist.

LL
 
larrysb said:
I was looking at the Citizen "Eco Drive" aviator watches. Lot's of gizmo features, E6B, multiple time zones, LCD and mechanical displays, the special features is a solar cell built into the face, never needs a battery, runs on light and will keep accurate time for years in the dark.

I was really digging on the Blue Angels model in titanium. Way lighter than stainless.
Click to expand...

I have the older stainless one.
The numbers have all worn off and my left arm is now as big as Popeye's from the weight.
Get Titanium for sure...
Eric
________
Cr750
 
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Toby said:
I don't usually get into bar fights.
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Glad to hear that Toby. We were starting to get worried.
 
I think both Anthony and Skip have given good advice. I currently have a TAG HEURER Chronograph it has a bezel that measures minutes elapsed, a second hand, and a stop watch feature that measures tenths of a second, seconds, minutes and hours up to 12. Is is waterproof to 200 meters which if I ever dove to I'd be dead. On the bright side if I drop it in the ocean just off the continental shelf I know the Squid will be able to tell the time until the battery dies. My wife paid about $6-800 for it as a gift for me over 11 or 12 years ago.

In short I wish she saved her $$$. Why? Well in order to maintain the waterproof and other warranty you have to send it to the factory just to replace the freakin battery, that's three months and over $100 to replace a damn $6.00 battery. The bezel chipped and the dots and numbers from 22 min-28 min are missing, eh no biggie I can still figure out the time pretty darn well. The stop watch is CRAPOLA. The hands don't reset to zero and I have had it fixed twice at over $100 per fix. I have given up. My jeweler replaced the battery himself for a few bucks and that's it. It is my only causal watch. It keeps time and its easy to use as a back up to the the plane clock when I use the bezel. But it Ain't worth the $$$. My jeweler has told me, In the future skip the fancy expensive watches. They always need repair and repairs are always a LOT of money. When you send them back to the factory it always takes a few months to fix. My jewelers advice " Get a Seiko" says it can't be beat for price, value and performance.
OTOH have your considered the AOPA watch sold by Sportys, don't' know how much it is or if its any good. I think Joe has one.
 
AdamZ said:
snip
OTOH have your considered the AOPA watch sold by Sportys, don't' know how much it is or if its any good. I think Joe has one.
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I have the AOPA watch, but don't really know how much it cost. It was given to me by AOPA for doing something or other, I don't really remember what. It works wonderfully, never needs the time reset, is lightweight, and comfy to wear. It doesn't look particularly fancy, but does have "AOPA PILOT" and the AOPA wings real big on the face. The entire face lights up in a cool blue color at night, which wasn't as handy as I thought it would be on my night flights. We had plenty of light to be able to tell time without it. It's got a stop watch and you can set a couple different time zones on the digital part. Being a Timex, it should take a lickin' and keep on tickin' :)

My favorite watch, which I keep forgetting to get a battery for, is also my most expensive. Cathy and Sean bought it for me a few years ago. It cost $100, the most I can picture spending for a watch. It's a Pulsar, also keeps time impeccably, has a cool stop watch in the form of three inset faces in the main face, and looks really good. It's heavy, but also quite comfy. Like AOPA's watch, it's got an adjustable bezel, a function I've never used on any watch.
 
Phil Kriley wanted me to pass this on to the forums:

Hi Nick -

As I am not a member of POA, would you be so kind as to forward this to Skip Miller for me? Thanks in advance!

Skip - If you want accuracy, you cannot beat the Casio G-Shock MT-G, because it receives it's time from the NIST atomic clock. It is VERY easy to read and has a bright backlight for reading at night. It has a stopwatch function and is water resistant to 200m. It also has alarms and several other functions that I don't use and can't even recall at the moment.

I bought it at JC Penney's for about $120 last year (IIRC).

Phillip A Kriley
{Address info removed}
 
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NickDBrennan said:
Phil Kriley wanted me to pass this on to the forums:

Hi Nick -

As I am not a member of POA, would you be so kind as to forward this to Skip Miller for me? Thanks in advance!
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My question is why isn't Phil a member of POA and why does he need you to post for him? I don't get it.
 
Anthony said:
My question is why isn't Phil a member of POA and why does he need you to post for him? I don't get it.
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I don't know the answer to that question. I get the feeling its none of my business, so I don't ask! :)
 
Well skip i'll put in my 2 cents, I bought a watch the other year at K-mart,it's a Aviator by Field and Stream, works well and was inexpensive, has annalog hands set for local time and a digital display that i set on Zulu time,has stop and timer and even has a E6B around it but i cant read that small of numbers, I think i paid under $40 for it but that was 4 years ago Dave G.
 
Ah, this is definitely a favorite topic of mine. An avowed watch freak, I have some pretty strong feelings on the subject.

First, a watch is a very personal thing. Features you want and/or need will determine a lot about what to get. You stated you want a quartz movement, so lets concentrate there first. The Torgeon you mention is being heavily marketed as an aviation watch. I've got very little input for you here, even being a regular on a prominent Pilot's watch forum. What I can say is the guys find them reasonably attractive, and having decent features. The value seems reasonable, but not a lot of track record among owners I've read to gage longevity. The guys I know of who bought them were fairly happy with the apparant build quality. Speaking of value, we really should go straight to price range.

If you want the best bang for the buck, you will not do much better than about any flavor of Casio you can think of. Seen on many professional pilot's wrists (including military). To go up a bit in cost, you have the Seiko Flight computer and the Citizen flight models. Feature packed, but very busy dials. A big plus for the Citizen Eco Drives is they don't require regular battery replacement. Figure +or- $300~$500. Getting into the thousands, we're back to Breitling (which includes the model with the built in ELT). The newest buzz from Breitling is the Aerospace Avantage (no, I didn't miss the D, it is the French spelling they have chosen). Here's a link (click here). This watch is not yet at the dealers, figure Nov. maybe earlier in the USA. The current Aerospace model (in production 20 years) is the most commonly seen Breitling on ATP's wrists. As for accuracy, their new SuperQuartz movements are guaranteed to be within 15 seconds per year, and most owners report much better (I've seen guys saying 1 to 3 sec. per year). Also in Breitling's quartz (SuperQuartz) lineup is the B-1. A fantastic pilot's watch, both digital and analog readout (as does the Aerospace) but also has an E6B sliderule. The B-1 is heavy and shiny as it's stainless steel (polished) while the Aerospace line is titanium.

As for mechanical watches, Breitling's are again my favorites (I am well known on the two foremost English language Breitling Forums as well). Both of mine BTW keep within about 3 sec./day and I know of many who get within 1 sec/day. All Breitling's are COSC certified (an independant swiss testing agency) which guarantees that the mechanical/automatic movements can be regulated to not worse than -4 to +6 sec. per day. When you consider that there is no electricity, and this is simply a little spring powered micro machine, subjected to all the temp fluctuations, and all the various states of movement/non movement one goes through, and that there are 86,400 seconds per day, this is really a phenominal feat.

While Breitling has strong legitimate ties to aviation (being an aviation supplier since the invention of the airplane!), there are many other brands also with close ties to aviation. Hanhart and Tutima come to mind, some very nice pilot's choronographs. Sinn is a company that should be considered, a very good value (though these are hard to get here, not impossible, and you won't see them on everyone else's wrist). They are German manufactured of Swiss movements. Sort of the "BMW" of wrist watches, and many in the fleiger (fliers) style. Omega has already been mentioned, as well they should be. The Speedmaster Pro is one of the most iconic wristwatches associated with flight. The Rolex GMT Master was originally diesigned at the request of Pan Am for their flight crews (no chronograph, but a GMT or Zulu hand). IWC makes some very high quality pilot's watches. Fortis is another though they are perhaps under appreciated.

BTW, regarding AOPA watches, the first AOPA watches were from Breitling. Their Navitimer model (similar to mine pictured below) was produced with the AOPA logo from aprox. 1952 through 1968. These watches are now highly prized and very expensive collectors items (don't look for that to happen with the current quartz AOPA watch, though they are very utilitarian).

I have the 50th Anniversary Navitimer, and the titanium Chrono Avenger. Pic below.

From what I've read from you're wants (and without more information) I'd recommend you look into the titanium Citizen Skyhawk. A cool, full featured "pilot's" watch, though again very busy.
 
I was given the Citizen Blue Angels Skyhawk Eco Drive from my fiancee last Christmas. Love the watch. I can still use the E6B on the ground or in smooth flight if the need be. For those of you that travel, being able to swap time zones from the digital selections to the analog watch is a neat feature. Plus I think it is an attractive watch.

I'm trying to find myself a Breitling knock off for impressing those bar fighting types. :)
 
NickDBrennan said:
Phil Kriley wanted me to pass this on to the forums:
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Thanks for the relay, Nick. And thanks for the info, Phil, if you are lurking here.

-Skip
 
Toby, You might if you went to that Harmonica contest in Yellow Pine, Id.:hairraise:
 
T Bone said:
Ah, this is definitely a favorite topic of mine. An avowed watch freak, I have some pretty strong feelings on the subject.
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Thanks for a very insightful reply. I am wondering now what is wrong with my Breitling. It is only about 6 years old. I am wondering if the newer ones are "dumbed down" as has happened to many products as companies seek the most profit, not the highest quality? Repair work has been done on my B. by the factory reps in Norwalk, CT. Have you heard of any endemic loss of quality in the newer generations of watches?

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
Thanks for a very insightful reply. I am wondering now what is wrong with my Breitling. It is only about 6 years old. I am wondering if the newer ones are "dumbed down" as has happened to many products as companies seek the most profit, not the highest quality? Repair work has been done on my B. by the factory reps in Norwalk, CT. Have you heard of any endemic loss of quality in the newer generations of watches?

-Skip
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No dumbing down, in fact most Breitling movements are now Certified Swiss Chronometers which must be tested and pass an accuracy requirement. Breitling, like most other watch makers do not make their own movements. They buy Valjoux or ETA Swiss movements and may do some finish work, but they are the same movements found in many competing watches like Omega and Sinn/Belll & Ross. Rolex is one exception I can think of. They make their own movements and command a premium over Breitling, Omega, etc. They also hold their value better.

The only difference I've seen in Breitlings over the years is appearance. They've become bigger, gaudier and cheaper looking, IMHO. Except for some of their traditional models like the Navitimer which I still think is a great watch.
 
For flying I wear either my regular dress watch which has a sweep second hand or this one

http://www.shoplite.com/50041.htm
"Always accurate time with radio signals from Atomic Clock"
 
Skip Miller said:
Thanks for a very insightful reply. I am wondering now what is wrong with my Breitling. It is only about 6 years old. I am wondering if the newer ones are "dumbed down" as has happened to many products as companies seek the most profit, not the highest quality? Repair work has been done on my B. by the factory reps in Norwalk, CT. Have you heard of any endemic loss of quality in the newer generations of watches?

-Skip
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Actually, most feel the reverse. The quality seems to be getting better. Their lowest point from what I've read was in the early/mid 80's. Since then, a steady inprovement has been seen in build quality, fit and finish. Some bemoan the current trend towards larger watches. In the last year, they discontinued several popular models to replace with the new Chronomat Evolution. Frankly, there are a couple of cosmetic issues I and many others have with this one.

You may notice that both of mine are matte finished. They offer fewer of these currently, but I suspect that trend may change.

As to regulation, their general policy (or so I have read) is to regulate to 3 sec./day fast. This gives a bit of room in the case where it may slow slightly. Most consider a bit fast tollerable (easy to hack and get back to correct time) but slow OTOH is frowned upon. They can actually usually be regulated closer than that. The real test is consistency. If in the same conditions, it is producing similar results day in and day out (ie: 3 sec. per day slow) it is then a consistent time keeper, and could be regulated even closer to exact time. Trying to get BUSA or their affiliates to do this is another matter. A skilled local watch maker who has the patience and ability should be able to accomplish something close, but it may take a couple tries.

As to service, every 5 years is the recommended interval AFAIK. Unless diving, then an annual pressure check is suggested. I know of many who've gone well beyond the 5 years with good results. Depends on the oils in the watch (if not worn, or at least run regularly, the oils will thicken and hasten the need for service).

Hope this is helpful.
 
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Skip Miller said:
http://www.breitling.com/en/models/windrider/cockpit_lady/

Toby, I don't think this looks like you, but FWIW here it is.

-Skip
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Then again, lots of women these days wear mens watches, and look great doing it! On Law And Order SVU, Mariska Hargitay (daughter of Jayne Mansfield) wears a Breitling Crosswind (or is it a Crosswind Special, I forget now....). Seen women with Navitimers too. And the Breitling Colt GMT is mid sized, would be great for a women. :rolleyes:
 
The best aviation watches at any price are Casio altithermos with digital compass, the latest is titanium solar with no battery to replace. I've shot "no panel" VOR approaches with only it and a handheld NavCom.

If you want your wrist "to look good" in the bar, then take it off.
 
Skip Miller said:
http://www.breitling.com/en/models/windrider/cockpit_lady/

Toby, I don't think this looks like you, but FWIW here it is.

-Skip
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That's got to be the ugliest Breitling I've ever seen. T-Bone is right, the "Colt" is a nice mid-size watch and quite tasteful too. In the early 60's it was popular for "Jet Setting" woman to wear men's Breitling watches.
 
Carol, that is a great watch.

Gee, I never gave watches this much thought before. I've been wearing my Fossil forever. Now I think I want to be one of those jet-setting women Anthony mentioned. Hmmmmm.
 
Toby said:
Carol, that is a great watch.

Gee, I never gave watches this much thought before. I've been wearing my Fossil forever. Now I think I want to be one of those jet-setting women Anthony mentioned. Hmmmmm.
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$19.95 Timex. Hmmn.
 
I thought I would post the decisions that I made and the watch I ended up with. I am supposed to pick it up tomorrow....

First, after trying to convince my wife that I would rather have a $49.95 Seiko and the balance converted into Avgas, I came to the conclusion that sometimes the best thing to say is "Yes Dear". Her argument was that any time I (we) have no family obligatons and I can get a plane and the weather is good, we (or I) go flying anyway so increasing the AvGas budget will not increase flying. And since this is a milestone birthday present, she will not be satisfied with $49.95. Yes Dear. So we are in the luxury watch category.

I want a very accurate watch, clean and simple appearance (looks like a fine watch not like jewelry with hands), easy to read dial, a chronograph (that's luxe-speak for stopwatch) function, and a watch with a strong aviation heritage.

As with everything else in life (and in particular in aviation), everything is a trade-off. The first of these trades was accuracy. I wanted a quartz movement. I couldn't find a quartz movement that had the look I wanted. So I have opted for a mechanical movement.

I opted for a manual winding movement. My existing Breitling is auto wind, but it is heavy and thick. The new watch will be less heavy (I hesitate to say light) and less thick (same hesitation...) but it is an improvement. The autowind function has not worked flawlessly and I am not disappointed to eliminate that feature.

The answer for me (recognizing that there will be as many opinions as to the watch I should have chosen as there are readers of this email) is the Hanhart Fliegerchronograph. The aviation heritage fairly drips off this watch. The original was made back in the '30s as a pilot watch and Hanhart was the supplier of Fliegerchronographs to the Luftwaffe. To further the legibility and appearance features I was looking for, I selected the Admiral model that looks identical to the Fliegerchronograph excepting that it has a white face. The watch appearance is also clean and simple, one of understated luxury (IMHO, of course), definitely something I was looking for.

The irony is that this watch has the same movement as most of the luxury watches. With a few exceptions (Rolex being one), they all use a Valjoux movement with modifications. So in that respect I'm getting the same watch again. But I will like it more. And my wife won't have to look at the watch my former wife gave me.

So the next time we meet, ask me what time it is!!!

-Skip
 
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