Pilot Training Kits: Which One is The Best?

Which Pilot Training Kit Did You Use?

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KennyFlys

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I'm in the process of setting up a more structured training program based on Part 141 but not under 141 certification. This allows me a lot of freedom to pick what works best from a wider variety.

In terms of the kits on the market, select the one you've used and please leave a comment why you liked it most.

Also, please tell me what features you did not like of a given publisher's training program.

Thanks for the help you'll be providing.
 
we've been using the Jepp 141 syllabus along with the jeppesen kit. i like it. jeppesen makes some pretty good training materials. I REALLY like their spiral bound pamphlet on all of the manuevers. Very illustrative and provides a nice step by step process along with appropriate PTS. That said, ive used others and havent really had any major complaints. all of the commercial kits contain all of the required information and do at least a fair job of presenting it.
 
Used the Jepp kit at the FBO's recommendation. I second Tony regarding the maneuvers book, very helpful. The book was OK, but really no more informative than the FAA pubs. My CFIs did whatever they felt like doing, so the syllabus, though nice, was irrelevant for me. :(

If I had to do it over again (or if I were a newly-minted CFI advising students) I'd say buy the FAA pubs (aircraft flying handbook and pilot handbook of aeronautical knowledge) plus the Gleim book for the written.
 
I threw a vote in...although, I may be a little biased :D. I do like to throw in some of the government issue stuff though....but if I had to choose a kit - it would be Jepp.
 
121Dispatch said:
I threw a vote in...although, I may be a little biased :D. I do like to throw in some of the government issue stuff though....but if I had to choose a kit - it would be Jepp.
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Yeah, you and Bob Gardner. :)

The Jep books are largely based on the FAA publications with use of much of the same graphics though I think the Jep books tend to make a bit better presentation. By my observation, they tended to compliment each other at least in my advanced training.
 
KennyFlys said:
The Jep books are largely based on the FAA publications with use of much of the same graphics though I think the Jep books tend to make a bit better presentation. By my observation, they tended to compliment each other at least in my advanced training.
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i think its the other way around. if you can find some, check out the old Jepp manuals from the 60's or 70's. alot of the same stuff in there. obviously without color.
 
tonycondon said:
i think its the other way around. if you can find some, check out the old Jepp manuals from the 60's or 70's. alot of the same stuff in there. obviously without color.
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I won't admit to having been around that long. :)
 
I used the Cessna kit, I thought it was pretty useless for the knowledge review stuff. It was nice that each flight lesson was previewed in it. It was also nice I was flying the exact model of airplane they were using.

But for knowledge stuff I really liked Machado's book and the FAA books.
 
I used Jepp but vote other cause I was thinking about the King CDs I used for the IR they were great. But I used Jepp for ppl and IR at my 141 school.
 
I used the Cessna Pilot Center kit for my private training and am using it for instrument now. Our local flight school is a Cessna Pilot Center so their curriculum requires it. The content is of course good, as John and Martha do much of the instruction. I however, find the corny jokes very annoying (they are worse than Machado) and the material a little too basic in some places (almost as if they are talking down to you).

I must say that for my private, I needed to use additional materials to pass the written and oral. I used mywrittenexam.com, FAA pubs, and the ASA study guides.

For instrument, I purchased a used copy of the Jepp Instrument/Commercial book and I must say I like it a lot. I watch the Cessna videos to get the overview and read Jepp to get the in depth knowledge. I'm also using the Gliem audio cd's (ripped to mp3) to help me study in while excercising, commuting, or during yardwork.
 
I used the Cessna software all the way through commercial. Obviously, it's the same as King with the Cessna brand thrown in.

I had asked the boss about becoming a Cessna Pilot Center since it's great exposure and a name that draws attention to a school. In fact, they used to be one. However, that changed when Cessna began requiring the FBO to buy a new Skyhawk at over a quarter-million bucks to remain a CPC. So, that's a no-go in favor of more cost-effective methods. It would be cheaper to provide less-costly instruction to students and draw them from the competition.

In all honesty, I think the name is all there is to the Cessna/King software. The presentation isn't bad but it's just too dang expensive for the amount you get. I think there's much more that could be included for the price.
 
KennyFlys said:
However, that changed when Cessna began requiring the FBO to buy a new Skyhawk at over a quarter-million bucks to remain a CPC.
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Actually, you have to have a Cessna 2 years old or newer up for rental at the school. I guess the prudent school would find a sucker (or a rich guy, either one) who wants to fly. Have him buy the plane and work out a lease back agreement for the 2 years. That is the only way I can find to defer that $250K in risk and upfront capital that probably shuts out more flight schools than it opens.

I do agree that there are more cost effective methods. In some ways, I still kick myself for not being able to complete my pilot training while in college. I found an instructor with a C-150 who instructs off his farm strip for $100/hr (rental and instruction). I'm sure that price has since gone up, but that would have still been a steal 4 years ago. You got to choose your ground school materials as well.
 
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pilotmattk said:
Actually, you have to have a Cessna 2 years old or newer up for rental at the school. I guess the prudent school would find a sucker (or a rich guy, either one) who wants to fly. Have him buy the plane and work out a lease back agreement for the 2 years. That is the only way I can find to defer that $250K in risk and upfront capital that probably shuts out more flight schools than it opens.

I do agree that there are more cost effective methods. In some ways, I still kick myself for not being able to complete my pilot training while in college. I found an instructor with a C-150 who instructs off his farm strip for $100/hr (rental and instruction). I'm sure that price has since gone up, but that would have still been a steal 4 years ago. You got to choose your ground school materials as well.
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That pretty much falls in line with what was said. I'd heard that elsewhere as well. They want you to effectively buy a new plane every two years. Or, that's the disire since you can't always get a late-model leaseback that easy these days.

Down the pike, I'll be doing some begging of a few of our customers to do leasebacks, particularly with a high performance, complex aircraft. But, it would likely be mandatory dual; no solo flight.

I know that last requirement might not be favorable to many folks on here but insurance companies run the flight schools these days. That requirement could cut down liability premiums drastically while still providing the required equipment to students. It would almost be cheaper to pay for the CFI on board than fly it solo.
 
I believe I liked different aspects about many of the available products. We're using mainly Jeppesen as a base in college. They provide many great pictures and explanations but give it to you in huge, heavy, and expensive books. I've also used ASA's books and DVDs. I prefer their training DVDs over sportys and King, mainly because they don't put me to sleep as quick. (sorry, I know many of you have the hots for martha).

It really depends on what you like. If you want lots of pictures, use Jeppesen. If you want lively instructors, use ASA's DVDs. And if you just want the meat of the flight training process, the basic FAA pilot series is great too (also cheap and/or available online for free). I have a whole library based on different companies, because just like instructors, sometimes a different perspective is helpful on top of new concepts.
 
I used the King Schools' CD-ROM course. I thought they did a good job of presenting the material in an applicable manner. Though I agree, the bad jokes did make me groan - a lot - and John King is way to fakely chipper in his videos... But, I still passed the written, and I liked having the syllabus so I knew what I would be doing in my flights with my instructor.

Ken, I know that there are at least two other schools in the Houston area that use the King CPC course (though at least one of them are not officially designated a CPC, mostly for the requirement of purchasing a new plane) - United Flight Systems at DWH and Anson Air at SGR. Anson has all 172's (3 N's, 1 R, and 3 SP's - one a G1000 bird) for primary training, they have a G1000 182 for HP stuff, an older Arrow III for complex, and a Seminole for multi. They use the King materials for all ground instruction, and they are scheduled to receive 2 162's in 2009. United has a mix of various 152's and 172's for primary, a 172RG for complex, and I believe a couple of Seminoles for multi.

Other schools in the Houston-area that use Cessna's for primary instruction include:

American Failu- er, Flyers at DWH
Hi-Tech at DWH (also have an SR-20 for rent)
West Houston Airport Flight School - IWS
Dutch Wings Flight School - AXH
Endeavor Aviation - AXH
Success Aviation - AXH
Cliff Hyde Flying Service - EFD

Those are the ones I know off the top of my head. I'm not sure if this will help you, but I figure that it's always good to know your competition.
 
Well I bought the Cessna Kit, but didn't end up using it very much. I did the ground school at the local FBO, and they suggested the cessna kit (in the red naugahide bag). but we ended up mostly using the Gleim books for test prep anyway.

For my Private my CFI had her own syllabus. I think I still have all the Xeroxed handouts, and notes she gave me. Very Low tech, but it worked out reasonably well.

For my Instrument it was a combo of the Gleim, and Faa books.

Personally I think the FAA books are pretty good, except for a few glitches here and there (like the infamous "Wench Launch" in the glider handbook)

Pete
 
I used and liked the Jepp for the Instrument and Commercial. I'm using the Jepp book, the FAA books, and the King DVDs for the CFI.
 
Here's my 2¢:

These kits all cover the same material to approximately the same depth. I haven't found any significant holes, or any exceptional insight in any of them.

What works best for you may be sub-optimal for the next guy.

The FAA collection is by far the cheapest especially if you download the pdf's for free. It is generally organized as reference material rather than a structured course.

Jeppesen is by far the most expensive. It is well written and illustrated but it is also big (whole sets should probably be considered in weight and balance calculations). If you like to read, like I do, it's fine but the "information density" is a bit light.

Gardner's Complete Pilot series is probably the tightest written, no nonsense, to the point yet easy to understand.

Machado's stuff is a bit too much for me. He knows his stuff and covers the material in depth. A lot of people like his use of humor and find the material less dry and boring. Personally I can only read a little bit at a time.

I like Kirshner's books. I never met him but I assume sitting down and talking with him would be a lot like reading his books.

I haven't seen the Cessna package in a while but I used it for my airplane and helicopter private. I found them complete and fairly easy to read but unimpressive.

I haven't used a whole Gleim package but the individual books on maneuvers and test prep are well done.

I haven't watched a video ground school since the Cessna/King CD's that came with my first private package. I would read the chapter then watch the video. I found the video to be a lecture straight from the book with the worst jokes added. I understand that some people prefer a lecture rather than read the book but that's not me.

Good luck.

Joe
 
I choose other

For PPL (part 61)
Sportys used at home
GLEIM purchased and used when I attended 2/3 of the Ground School.
ASA Exam and Practical test Guides
Kershner Student Pilot Flight Manual

For IFR (Part 141)
Cessna / King provided by through the flight school
ASA Exam and Practical test Guides

Working on Commercial (Part 61)
Have GLEIM Commercial test and Commercial Manueveers books
Have ASA Private and Commercial Pilot Manual
Have ASA Exam and Practical test Guides
Will Review the Sportys and King videos before taking the tests

My thoughts

Books are all about the same some authors and formats are easier to read and comprehend. Multiple sources on the same information with slightly different approaches helps me pull together and remember the information.

Videos I prefered Sporty's the Cessna/King seemed outdated. The new King catalog stuff looks more modern. I liked the ability to take practice tests on the TV and involve my wife so she has an understanding of what is going on. She enjoyed beating me on the tests. Some sections of both sets are good sleep aids. I found the Kings to be a little too far to the entertaining side.

edit: I looked at the Jepp manual during the PPL ground school and the layout was close to the Gleim. The price seemed high to me.

FWIW:rolleyes:
 
I have used and enjoyed the Sporty's Private DVD course. The material is presented well, the production methods are top notch and the corny jokes are kept to a minimum. It comes with PTS syllabus, current FAR/AIM book, electronic E6B, plotter....everything needed to get started. At the end of each segment in the dvd, there are test questions covering the material just gone over, and then at the end of the dvd, there are questions covering the entire dvd. There is also included, the FAA test prep DVD with actual, randomly selected, FAA test questions. Everytime you take the prep test, it's a different test. For me, it has been a good system. I will use them for my instrument and commercial before I use someone elses.

I agree with the earlier statement, that what works for me may not work for you.

Be safe.

Stan
 
pilotmattk said:
You're not a kidding. She was smokin hot in the PPL material, but when she puts those foggles on, I can hardly stand it!
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Dude, If Martha does it for ya then you'd be knocked off your feet in our FBO. :D
 
tonycondon said:
i think its the other way around. if you can find some, check out the old Jepp manuals from the 60's or 70's. alot of the same stuff in there. obviously without color.
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This thread caught me at a nostalgic moment, as I was reading the meterology portion of my Sanderson "Private Pilot Manual" copyright 1965, the year that I took my first lesson. My CFI had me buy the Sanderson kit, which consisted of the manual, a mini sized plastic E6B, and one of the pocket sized plotters. You could stick the plotter in the case with the E6B, then put both in the cover of the manual, and you were off to ground school in the CFI's kitchen. He loaned me his copy of the Kirshner Private Pilot manual. I still have the Sanderson kit. I found one just like mine on E-bay, just in case anyone wants one for themselves :):):). I now have a whole pilot purse full of books, plotters, charts, headsets, flashlights, multi tools, markers, navcom, a copy of the FARs, and a bunch of other stuff that I think that I might need to fly off into the wild blue yonder. I don't know how I got along in those days with just a map, a plotter, and an E6B. I see these new students walking out with a huge brand new Jepp bag full of stuff. Those were the days. OK, thanks for the trip down memory lane. I'm going to get back to studying. By the way, that manual is at 99 cents right now on e-bay.

Max
 
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I picked "other."

For private, I started out long before I really started formal training by borrowing an old (c.1995) Jepp book. It was so god-awful dry that it put me to sleep despite the fact that I was fascinated with flying. At that time, it was also black and white so in the part where they were talking about sectional charts, there were no sectional chart excerpts in the book to explain what they were talking about! Luckily, they have improved. :yes:

However, after that experience, I went and bought the Machado book and loved it. Unlike John and Martha, I found Machado to actually be funny.

I also used the Sporty's video set. IMHO, it's somewhat more complete - "What you should know" rather than silliness to help you just pass the written. It has lots of cool footage too - My favorite was the underbelly video of the Bonanza's gear retracting. Cooooool. :yes:

Working on my IR, I've also used Kershner and Gardner which are both good. I'd say, though, that a student headed for the airlines is likely to be using Jepp materials throughout their career, so they might as well get started with 'em right off the bat! For everyone else, choose between Machado if they like that sort of thing, or one of the others if they don't.

I also used the Gleim audio CD's, ripped to MP3 and dumped on my iPod. I listened while driving, interspersed with music to keep me awake. It allows you to learn while doing other necessities. :yes:

As far as actual test prep books, I like ASA better than Gleim for the simple reason that ASA includes the actual FAA test booklet for the figures, which makes it a lot easier to do the online practice tests and also makes it easier to quickly find the figures during the test.

KennyFlys said:
I had asked the boss about becoming a Cessna Pilot Center since it's great exposure and a name that draws attention to a school. In fact, they used to be one.
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Does Cessna actually do anything (ie marketing) to get prospective pilots for their pilot centers? I was under the impression that the answer was No. In that case, I don't think CPC means much of anything. Heck, the general public knows the name "Piper" (as in Cub) as much as Cessna.

However, that changed when Cessna began requiring the FBO to buy a new Skyhawk at over a quarter-million bucks to remain a CPC. So, that's a no-go in favor of more cost-effective methods. It would be cheaper to provide less-costly instruction to students and draw them from the competition.
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Bingo. IMHO, one of the dumbest moves Cessna has ever made. I wonder how many of their CPC's they lost in the process. I used to work for another former CPC, and I would not be surprised at all if over 50% of them told Cessna to take a hike.

I'm gonna start a new thread with the rest. :D
 
The answer is "Whatever works best for the student (and the instructor should be flexible enough to work with any of them)." Every student has a different learning style, and the various packages are designed for different styles, so you have to match learning style with package design. Outside of a 141 school which must use the package specified in its TCO, that means the instructor can't be married to one package. S/he must know the packages, discuss them with the student, and create a good match.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Does Cessna actually do anything (ie marketing) to get prospective pilots for their pilot centers? I was under the impression that the answer was No. In that case, I don't think CPC means much of anything. Heck, the general public knows the name "Piper" (as in Cub) as much as Cessna.
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Outside of Cessna being the most recognizable name in general aviation to the public when it comes to flying lessons, not much at all. There's a lot of advertising even for aircraft sales that can link back to flying lessons. But, for a small school it's simply not worth it.

Even if we bought the airplanes, I'm still not sure the training software is all that great to make it worth it.

Along the same lines, our FBO is an "authorized" Mooney Service Center. In order to be a dot on a brochure and a name to hand out on a phone call to Mooney, they send the FBO a bill for this service. This last week, it was $2600 without a question to the owner; all of it amounting to several thousand more a year he can contribute to adding A&P staff. He's considering withdrawing. This is another piece of proof that the labels are not always beneficial to the FBO nor the customer when it takes away from the resources that could otherwise benefit the customer.
 
Ron Levy said:
The answer is "Whatever works best for the student (and the instructor should be flexible enough to work with any of them)." Every student has a different learning style, and the various packages are designed for different styles, so you have to match learning style with package design. Outside of a 141 school which must use the package specified in its TCO, that means the instructor can't be married to one package. S/he must know the packages, discuss them with the student, and create a good match.
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This is what I had in mind. For the most part, we may stick with Jepp for the majority of training. But, we'll keep other resources on hand to help the student as necessary.

One item I was thinking is having a couple different types of software on hand we can rent to students as a supplement to the training kits with text books. We're small enough that this could be a manageable program.

The TCO I have is an approved program at another school so I can model it for the day we may seek certification. I don't see that happening any time soon but it would be good to head that direction for structure.
 
Ron Levy said:
The answer is "Whatever works best for the student (and the instructor should be flexible enough to work with any of them)." Every student has a different learning style, and the various packages are designed for different styles, so you have to match learning style with package design. Outside of a 141 school which must use the package specified in its TCO, that means the instructor can't be married to one package. S/he must know the packages, discuss them with the student, and create a good match.
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DITTO!

I was raised on Jeppesen but have read a ton of different manufacturers' books. I like different things about each. I stock a wide variety and let students choose.
 
Ron Levy said:
The answer is "Whatever works best for the student (and the instructor should be flexible enough to work with any of them)." Every student has a different learning style, and the various packages are designed for different styles, so you have to match learning style with package design. Outside of a 141 school which must use the package specified in its TCO, that means the instructor can't be married to one package. S/he must know the packages, discuss them with the student, and create a good match.
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Exactly -- which is why every CFI should collect one of each so he/she can be familiar with the approaches and help make the match.

That said...

The (fairly new) ASA Pilot Manual series is some serious competition for Jepp in the high quality textbook category, at about half the price.

Gleim is good if you already know the material via otehr reading (sorry, but the numbered paragraph format drives me nuts if I read more than 5 pages at a time).

Jepp is as close to a quality High School text as you'll find (with the price to match).

Kershner's books are solid, but lack the multi-layout jazz graphics endemic in today's textbooks.

I need to add Gardner's books to my collection.

You only need The Airplane Flying Handbook, Pilot's Encyclopedia of Aeronautical Knowledge, Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators, and Aviation Weather to know 85-90% of what you'll need for any knowledge or oral exam.
 
i vote for john and martha! King Schools.

I havent used any others, but i'm sure they all give the same info. John and Martha however put it together in such an easy format and include a lot of corny and dry humor. They know it's corny and dry, but it really helps with remembering things.
 
ntbjounin said:
i vote for john and martha! King Schools.

I havent used any others, but i'm sure they all give the same info. John and Martha however put it together in such an easy format and include a lot of corny and dry humor. They know it's corny and dry, but it really helps with remembering things.
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As I said earlier, short of the corny jokes, the presentation is good. It just falls short of the information that could be provided. I think it's far too pricey for what you get.

In just looking at instrument and commercial, you'll spend well over $600 and the schools usually don't give much of a break on those; maybe 10%. For much less than that, I can provide the Jeppesen Instrument/Commercial kit, the DVD set and supplemental study materials.

While I want to make that the standard for the school, I'll have other items available. Basically, I'll go to whatever length it takes to help a student make it through knowledge training.
 
dmccormack said:
:yes:

I rented the IFR knowledge and practical set and the Comm and CFI checkride set from avnac.com -- very useful and good prep.
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Hmmm. I thought that the licensing terms of many of the video courses prohibited loaning or renting them. As a consumer, I'm glad to see that this is available.
 
gprellwitz said:
Hmmm. I thought that the licensing terms of many of the video courses prohibited loaning or renting them. As a consumer, I'm glad to see that this is available.
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There are several web video rental businesses. avnac has lots of titles, including Sporty's and Jepp.

I saw the usual prohibition against charging admission or public use, but nothing restricting rental.
 
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