Pilot Shares Responsibility for Runway Incursion

silver-eagle

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Back in May, there were a couple of runway incursions at LAX. The report from the NTSB of that incident places part of the blame on the pilot (Aero-news report). This is primarily due to when he switched from the tower frequncy to ground.
After reading the articles above, what do you think? Do you wait for the tower to tell you to switch or do you switch after passing the hold line?
 
After reading the articles above, what do you think? Do you wait for the tower to tell you to switch or do you switch after passing the hold line?
I stay on ground until I am ready to go and then switch to tower to ask for take off permission unless told otherwise. FYI I would never pass the hold short line for take off unless I am talking to tower. When landing I go past the hold short line, clean up the plane and then change to the freq I was told to or stay on tower.
 
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See and avoid - even on the ground. How do you NOT see an A320 or 737 rolling?
 
Do you wait for the tower to tell you to switch or do you switch after passing the hold line?

Per the AIM (Note esp. 'c', emphasis mine) :

4-3-20. Exiting the Runway After Landing
The following procedures must be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.​
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots shall not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.​
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise directed by ATC. An aircraft is considered clear of the runway when all parts of the aircraft are past the runway edge and there are no restrictions to its continued movement beyond the runway holding position markings. In the absence of ATC instructions, the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by taxiing beyond the runway holding position markings associated with the landing runway, even if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or cross another taxiway or ramp area. Once all parts of the aircraft have crossed the runway holding position markings, the pilot must hold unless further instructions have been issued by ATC.​
NOTE-
1. The tower will issue the pilot instructions which will permit the aircraft to enter another taxiway, runway, or ramp area when required.

2. Guidance contained in subparagraphs a and b above is considered an integral part of the landing clearance and satisfies the requirement of 14 CFR Section 91.129.
c. Immediately change to ground control frequency when advised by the tower and obtain a taxi clearance.​
NOTE-
1. The tower will issue instructions required to resolve any potential conflictions with other ground traffic prior to advising the pilot to contact ground control.
2. A clearance from ATC to taxi to the ramp authorizes the aircraft to cross all runways and taxiway intersections. Pilots not familiar with the taxi route should request specific taxi instructions from ATC.
 
Last week at LGA, a Continental 737 landed and exited on the high speed...the first available taxiway. He immediately switched over to ground on 121.7, the freq published on the Jepps Plates. Unfortunately, on busy days, LGA opens a second (non-published) ground freq on .85 for the west side of the airport. Because he jumped straight onto .7 (and actually misset 120.7) instead of waiting for the tower to tell him to go to .85 it took almost ten minutes for them to raise him to ask why he stopped with his mains on the hold short line. 12 planes went around that morning while they were waiting to hear why he stopped and give him directions to keep moving. Turned out to be FOD on the taxiway that he didn't want to injest, but two planes ended up declaring min fuel after their go-arounds, and all 12 planes (included us) got launch into the arrival coridor for LGA, JFK, TET, and EWK. That was a mess that took NY Approach a long time to clean up (5 RAs for us, alone). Obviously if COA had waited for the tower to tell him who to contact, they would have known to slow everyone down on the approach, even if a few of them would have still had to go around.
 
Always wait to be told to switch. You never know, at some fields when it is less busy, you may be instructed to remain with tower for your taxi to park.
 
Unfortunately, on busy days, LGA opens a second (non-published) ground freq on .85 for the west side of the airport.

Sounds like they need to publish that, or put that announcement on ATIS.
 
Nope, people just need to follow directions.

That's fine and dandy if they actually GIVE you directions. There's been times where I have been forgotten by various controllers, or the tower has been so busy, they don't tell you to contact ground. If you are going to have mystery frequencies, there better be a place to find them.
 
That's fine and dandy if they actually GIVE you directions. There's been times where I have been forgotten by various controllers, or the tower has been so busy, they don't tell you to contact ground. If you are going to have mystery frequencies, there better be a place to find them.

If tower doesn't tell me to contact ground I will sit there until they either TELL me to contact ground or they TELL me to taxi with them. If after a short amount of time they do neither I will ask them for instructions. I'm not moving until I hear from tower one way or another.
 
Yep, never switch freq's until told to switch freq's. The only exception to that afaik is when you're in position ready to take off and you are switching from ground to tower to let them know you're ready.
 
If tower doesn't tell me to contact ground I will sit there until they either TELL me to contact ground or they TELL me to taxi with them. If after a short amount of time they do neither I will ask them for instructions. I'm not moving until I hear from tower one way or another.

Like some other situations, it's quite easy to prompt them for this too. If I don't hear something by the time I'm slowed and can turn off onto a taxiway, I say "Tower, 71G parks south ramp." They'll respond with either taxi instructions or "Left on bravo three, contact ground."

It's very similar to the good ol' "Center, field in sight." "Radar service terminated, squawk VFR, change to advisory frequency approved." Both give them not only a heads-up, but also useful information.
 
That's fine and dandy if they actually GIVE you directions. There's been times where I have been forgotten by various controllers, or the tower has been so busy, they don't tell you to contact ground. If you are going to have mystery frequencies, there better be a place to find them.

They forget people all the time...it's just a matter of butting in until they tell you to contact someone or start taxiing. I think they would publish the freq except that it has no fixed hours of use. They open .85 when the guy on .7 (the main freq) gets swamped and close it again once things die down. It's just their system...all you can do is sit, wait, and listen for their instructions.
 
Interesting. FAI has (what I assume to be) a policy that you may not cross an active runway without being on tower frequency. IOW if you are taxiing on ground, before you cross a runway they will switch you back to tower first. Past the runway? Back to ground.
 
Interesting. FAI has (what I assume to be) a policy that you may not cross an active runway without being on tower frequency. IOW if you are taxiing on ground, before you cross a runway they will switch you back to tower first. Past the runway? Back to ground.
That is a bit different. On the DoD fields and many civilian fields I have been to, when you are cleared to taxi unless told otherwise you are to proceed across all runways and to remain with ground. Once you are approaching the hold short switch to tower and then on your merry way.
 
That is a bit different. On the DoD fields and many civilian fields I have been to, when you are cleared to taxi unless told otherwise you are to proceed across all runways and to remain with ground. Once you are approaching the hold short switch to tower and then on your merry way.

That is how it works at every airport I've ever been to.
 
Interesting. FAI has (what I assume to be) a policy that you may not cross an active runway without being on tower frequency. IOW if you are taxiing on ground, before you cross a runway they will switch you back to tower first. Past the runway? Back to ground.


The way I've always heard it, you can cross a runway without a specific clearence if it was in the taxi directions and you weren't told to hold short (eg: "taxi to, hold short of rwy 18" is as good as "taxi to, hold short of 18, cross 25"). Of course, it's NEVER a bad idea to confirm crossing permission. You don't expressly have to switch freqs, though. That's another one of those things that you just follow the controller's instructions. Some places they switch you, some they don't. LGA you taxi with ground, across all rwys until you're in sequence at the hold short line for the departure runway. BOS, you talk to two ground and two tower controllers just to get from the high speed exit to the ramp.
 
I'm not saying that it works any differently at FAI as far as taxi clearances. A clearance from point A to point B that includes crossing a runway is express approval to cross all runways on your route. I'm just saying that in my experience ground will often have you switch to tower to receive your clearance to cross a runway...and after reflection I couldn't remember a time which they didn't have me do this. IOW ground's taxi clearance limit would always be to hold short runway XX/XX and contact tower, who would then clear me to cross and continue via X and X to my destination.

FAI is not a complicated airport so I thought this was curious.
 
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