Picking up the Tiger today

Anthony

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Anthony
Well, after a long month of annual inspection and subsequent repairs, my Tiger is ready to fly again. I go to Jeffco today to pick it up and will do some local flying to make sure all is well. I'll post my thoughts on the annual and how its flying later. For now, I have to see if I can remember how to fly. :)
 
Anthony said:
Well, after a long month of annual inspection and subsequent repairs, my Tiger is ready to fly again. I go to Jeffco today to pick it up and will do some local flying to make sure all is well. I'll post my thoughts on the annual and how its flying later. For now, I have to see if I can remember how to fly. :)

Anthony, what did they do, work on it an hour a day? No annual inspection, even with some repair work should take that long. I often ask..whats up with GA maint? Were backordered parts a reason? Wonder what the labor charge was, do you really have any idea? It really is ashame. Good to have your Tiger back, enjoy.
 
C-1 PILOT said:
Anthony, what did they do, work on it an hour a day? No annual inspection, even with some repair work should take that long. I often ask..whats up with GA maint? Were backordered parts a reason? Wonder what the labor charge was, do you really have any idea? It really is ashame. Good to have your Tiger back, enjoy.

Welcome to the world of "service" in GA.

Right now, I'm being torqued around by Hartzell - delivery time went from 6 weeks to 10 weeks overnight.... as a result my plane may be down all summer. Doesn't matter to them that the plane is on the ground.
 
Anthony said:
Well, after a long month of annual inspection and subsequent repairs, my Tiger is ready to fly again. I go to Jeffco today to pick it up and will do some local flying to make sure all is well. I'll post my thoughts on the annual and how its flying later. For now, I have to see if I can remember how to fly. :)

A month of repairs? Bummer :( . Details, we need details!

Gary
 
Anthony said:
Well, after a long month of annual inspection and subsequent repairs, my Tiger is ready to fly again. I go to Jeffco today to pick it up and will do some local flying to make sure all is well. I'll post my thoughts on the annual and how its flying later. For now, I have to see if I can remember how to fly. :)

Good luck with it Anthony. I haven't so much as touched an airplane in about 5 weeks. I really ought to take the Archer for a few laps around the block to see if I can still fly one without embarassing myself. Might as well, the R22 is unairworthy at the moment :mad:
 
I just typed four huge paragraghs on my annual and lost it by hitting some frickin key. I am frustrated and let's just say, the plane flies like sh*t and it cost me $5,663.70 and a month of down time to get it to fly like sh*t. I'll post when I'm in a better frame of mind.
 
Anthony said:
I just typed four huge paragraghs on my annual and lost it by hitting some frickin key. I am frustrated and let's just say, the plane flies like sh*t and it cost me $5,663.70 and a month of down time to get it to fly like sh*t. I'll post when I'm in a better frame of mind.

I'll be glad to share my tale of woes with my prop if that will make you feel any better... ;)
 
wsuffa said:
I'll be glad to share my tale of woes with my prop if that will make you feel any better... ;)
And I can add stuff about alternator belts spittin' out v-notch teeth :(
 
wsuffa said:
I'll be glad to share my tale of woes with my prop if that will make you feel any better... ;)

Yes, please, in fact if anyone would like to share their tales, it might make me feel better. In fact just knowing others have had these mometns is making me feel better already. Misery loves company. :)

More details to come.
 
Anthony said:
I just typed four huge paragraghs on my annual and lost it by hitting some frickin key. I am frustrated and let's just say, the plane flies like sh*t and it cost me $5,663.70 and a month of down time to get it to fly like sh*t. I'll post when I'm in a better frame of mind.
Bummer. Hope things get made right. Three strikes - Expensive, long time down and work not done correctly. Good luck.

Let me know if you need Agatha to come negotiate. She can be very persuasive...
 
Anthony said:
Yes, please, in fact if anyone would like to share their tales, it might make me feel better. In fact just knowing others have had these mometns is making me feel better already. Misery loves company. :)

More details to come.
How about I've been out of work for six weeks and haven't flown in 3 months? Feelin' any better yet? :no:

All the contract opportunities I've chased lately are priced about half of the recent going rate (and being filled by H-1B Visa holders ... grrrr!) or just aren't working out.

They say that misery loves company, but I don't really agree. So, what the heck is up with the Tiger flying like a pig? Hope it's easily fixed!
 
Anthony said:
Yes, please, in fact if anyone would like to share their tales, it might make me feel better. In fact just knowing others have had these mometns is making me feel better already. Misery loves company. :)

More details to come.

OK... here goes...

My annual is due in August. We recently discovered that Hartzell, in 2002, went and put a note in the type certificate for the prop that makes compliance with Service Letter 61 mandatory. This got snuck in without notice. Service Letter 61 has the TBO times (both hours and calendar time), so by this action, Hartzell made the TBO mandatory.

The TBO calendar time expired in late May. Faced with the downtime for an overhaul, and then more downtime in August for annual, I read the Service Letter more carefully. It had a clause in it that read: "Temporary extension of TBO" which essentially said that Hartzell finds that a 3-month or 100 hour extension of the TBO is acceptable to avoid grounding of an aircraft or to allow for scheduling of maintenance, however, that extension had to be granted by the FAA. Should be perfect, right? HA!

I called the local FSDO, who said they have no authority to extend the TBO because Hartzell wrote the Service Letter - therefore they have to authorize it. So I called Hartzell. They said, no, they couldn't do it, the FAA had to. But the woman at Hartzell agreed to "bounce it upstairs". In the end, she came back with the name of a gentleman back at the FSDO that I should talk to.

So I called him. After talking for a few minutes, he said "You're not Part 135? There is no TBO requirement on Part 91." So I pointed him to the language, and he agreed that the TBO was mandatory. But he'd never seen a request like this for Part 91 before. So he asked me to make a formal request so they could evaluate it. That evaluation is still pending, and the plane is grounded.

In the meantime, I discovered that Hartzell has issued a Service Bulletin on the prop hub. As part of that SB, they noted that they were providing special pricing on a replacement hub and on a full replacement prop. The pricing was good through May 31. It was May 30. I know the prop blades were reduced to minimum limits at overhaul 6 years ago, so I suspected we were looking at new blades and a new hub, so it made sense to order a new prop.

I asked the prop shop to get the pricing from Hartzell and the delivery. Hartzell quoted a price that was less than the labor cost of overhaul + blades, and a delivery date of July 12. So, in the worst case, the plane would be down 6-7 weeks, then again in August. We ordered the prop.

On Friday, I learned that Hartzell wasn't honoring the delivery date. They pushed delivery into the second week of August. So I contacted the woman at Hartzell, again, who said that they had three-blade props in stock, and wouldn't I want one of them at 60% more than the one I ordered. Hartzell was unconcerned that the plane was grounded, and "couldn't" expedite the order. THe whole thing smelled like a classic "Bait and Switch", but whaddo I know?

So, the new prop should come in just in time for annual. I'll be grounded until then, unless the FAA comes through with an extension (which should be easy because the temporary extension language should be "approved data") - but then again, they've never issued one of these before.

I'm trying to locate a loaner prop, but that is proving problematic with the specified TBO in calendar time. I may have found one, but we'll have to see what shipping, and return to service, etc. costs.
 
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Anthony said:
I just typed four huge paragraghs on my annual and lost it by hitting some frickin key. I am frustrated and let's just say, the plane flies like sh*t and it cost me $5,663.70 and a month of down time to get it to fly like sh*t. I'll post when I'm in a better frame of mind.

Uh oh! Maybe I don't want to hear this story.:(

Gary
 
Anthony said:
Yes, please, in fact if anyone would like to share their tales, it might make me feel better. In fact just knowing others have had these mometns is making me feel better already. Misery loves company. :)

Hmmm... There was that $7,000 annual on the 182...

But the most recent misery was when we spent $9,000 to replace a bad cam in the engine of my favorite Archer. We got it back, I took it for a flight, and it worked worse than it had with the bad cam. :( A pair of new mags, a new muffler, and the third new carb in a year and now it almost works - But now it's down again for annual. :(
 
wsuffa said:
Welcome to the world of "service" in GA.

Right now, I'm being torqued around by Hartzell - delivery time went from 6 weeks to 10 weeks overnight.... as a result my plane may be down all summer. Doesn't matter to them that the plane is on the ground.

Bill, this is a real bummer. It's bad enough having a plane down for a couple of months in the winter, but in Ohio we don't want any down time in the summer.
 
Bill. That is definitely worse than my case. I hope they at least honor the new time frame. That does sound like a bait and switch and I love it when everyone points the finger at each other. Sigh.

Greg. You're right. I was really talking about airplane repair stories, but it all comes out of the same pocket. You can fly right seat in the Tiger any time you want. I got to fly anyway.

OK, I'll try it again. The major part of the expense of the annual was correcting all the slop in the movement of the control surfaces which included the ailerons, flaps, rudder and elevator trim tab. It seems a lot of the parts in or around these surfaces or the connections on the surfaces themselves were worn out. The parts included:

1 engine riser (stack)
12 various bushings for ailerons and flaps
2 elevator trim arms
2 Collars
2 Spacers
1 flap torque tube
1 elevator trim tab
Various other small parts, rigging tool rental, etc.
Total Parts: $1849

The inspection and corrective maintenance took 54.5 hours of labor at $70/hour. That was the rest.

The issues I'm still having are possible easily correctable (I hope) but still frutstrating. The plane wants to turn to the right which I can correct with adjustment of the aileron trim tabs. I expected a little bit of this, and hope a minor adjustment will do the trick considering the re-rigging and all the control surface work that was done. It was hot yesterday, we set a record at 94F. At 7,500 ft MSL it was still 80F. When I levelled off, I got a high oil temp warning from thje JPI engine analyzer. Thank God for that thing. 235F Oil temp, so I pulled back the power and enrichened the mixture while lookign for a place to land if necessary. The oil pressure was fine, and after I reduced power the oil temp came right down into the normal range so I flew home. The next one was the icing on the cake. I though all my electrical system woes were in the past as over the years I have replace many components and wiring (alternator VR, etc). Well on final approach I get a low voltage warning,(this happens if the voltage drops below 12V) but unlike previous episodes, the ammeter was showing a positive charge and all systems were working fine. I was so frustrated when I landed that I ignored the tower's intruction to contact ground after exiting the runway, so they yelled at me. I never do this and was just distracted with all the issues and trying to land a plane that wanted to turn right all the time. Almost like flying in a crosswind with no crosswind. After the lenghty lecture from ground I explained why it happened.

I have never had high oil temp problems. In fact I ave an STC'd larger 7 row oil cooler in the Tiger to avoid this issuse. The first thing I did upon landing was to check the baffling. Yep, they forgot to tuck the two rubber "tabs" that go under the front cowling. They were sticking out into the airflow blocking the oil cooler. It took me about five minutes to correct that and today I will adjust the aileron trim myself and test fly the plane. So 2 out of 3 should be OK. Because my ammeter was showing a positive charge, I'm thinking there may be an issue with my analyzer voltmeter probe. We'll see.

All in all I should just feel fortunate I have a plane to b*tch about and I do. Sorry for the rant.
 
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Oh Anthony! This hurts to read. :(

I don't know what to say that would help, but I can completely relate to your frustration and to the triple whammy, as someone noted, of long down time, high expense, and not fixed. It's awful when things keep recurring, or the problem changes just enough to be a little bit different and a little more mysterious. It's like you can't ever get a grip on it.

Also, I remember you said that you are using a new shop (new to you), so there are those unknowns. Even if everybody whose judgment you trust has said this is the best guy to go to, when a problem doesn't get fixed all sorts of thoughts go through your mind. You've heard my story--I'm now in my 5th month of frustration. Swee'pea is in for her first (for me) annual as we speak, and I said to my mechanic, take your time and go through every bit of that wiring and just fix the problem! The last 2 bills were $4600 and $658. The first bill was from my former mechanic and included some legit new parts and labor unrelated to the problem, plus a lot of padding....I got ripped off. The second bill was for the new VR and labor/testing with the new guy. I took him for a flight last week so he could see the problem, and he spent almost an hour talking to me about how he was going to troubleshoot it, his theories, etc. Let's hope he takes care of it.

It sounds like you took care of one of the issues, are working on another, and have a good theory about the third. That doesn't sound too bad. I hope they are all resolved soon.
 
Geesh Anthony! I'm sorry to hear this. Are they going to correct things from here or does it stay the way it is?
Please feel free to rant some more.

I'm supposed to get the A-36 back this week. I'm sure hoping I don't have new problems with it after all the adjustments!!

Dave
 
Gary, Tom, Bill, Mark, Toby, Dave and others thanks for the thoughts.

OK, I took a deep breath and went back to the airport (almost typed Bataan) this morning to work on the "issues". First thing I did was to fold the baffling under the front nose bowl as it was restricting airflow, especially to the side with the oil cooler. This section of baffling is designed to be up and under this part of the upper nose bowl. That took about three minutes of fiddling. Next step was to adjust the aileron trim tabs on the outboard side of each aileron. A little goes a long way, so as the plane wanted to constantly turn right, I adjusted the left trim tab down very slightly and the right trim tab up just a tad. Sometimes this ia a trial and error thing. Next I checked the alternator belt to see if it had too much play. Seemed fine to me. I then test flew the plane for about an hour.

Ambient conditions for the test flight were exactly the same as yesterday.

Here are the results:

Plane flew straight and level, hands off with no tendency to change heading. With all th slop taking out of the rigging, its very tight and responsive in roll and pitch.

Oil temperature was normal in all phases of flight.

CHT's are the lowest I've ever seen them on a hot summer day even on my traditionally hotter #3 & #4 cylinders. At 7,500 ft MSL and 75% power I could lean fully without CHT's going over 400F.

Voltage was normal and same as yesterday, the Ammeter showed the system was charging.

All in all I am very pleased with the airplane, except, while the plane was in for annual I had the neighboring avionics shop fix my Com 1. Well that works but now both my VOR's do not work. And yes they worked before, so I guess the shop left a wrench or even a dead avionics tech behind my panel. :)

Oh yeah, the same tower/ground controller that yelled at me yesterday tried to reprimand me again today for tunring left on climbout in the pattern. He said he instructed me to go right which he definitely DID NOT. He shut up pretty quick when I reminded him that I had received no such instruction and that its a left handed pattern on RWY 26. Paybacks are a b*tch. :)
 
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Picking up the Tiger yesterday at Jeffco, KBJC.
 

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How about: when my engine was last overhauled, the guys doing it wrote down incomplete part numbers for the rod end bolts and the oil pump impeller, both of which might have been subject to an AD, depending on the COMPLETE part number. So, because these guys did sloppy paperwork in 1996 (and the mechanics who signed off annuals since then, too), we had to pull a jug to inspect the part number for the rod end bolts and then pull the engine to inspect the oil pump impeller. The engine parts checked good, but the labor cost was, well, disheartening. Oh, and while we're at it let's replace the 15-year-old oil and fuel lines. The joys of ownership...
 
Anthony - glad to hear that with all things considered, today's flight was considerably more uplifting that yesterday! Thanks for the offer - once I get my schedule back on track, I'll be calling!
 
For a 28 year old plane the repairs were warranted, imho. Especially if the plane spent any time non-hangared. Sounds like you've got a better plane out of the deal, despite the oversights and expense.

The first "annual" (condition inspection) on my plane by my mechanic isn't due 'til September and I'm already starting to get hives thinking about what he could find, although I've already had him look at it for various items since I brought it home, including the various Lycoming ADs which thus far are N/A. I don't expect any surprises, but then they wouldn't be surprises if I knew about them. I have an oil cooler bypass/restricted flow problem, too, and it seems to be an original design problem. May have to modify the separate cooler inlet to correct it. Talking to other owners it's a common issue.
 
Anthony said:
All in all I should just feel fortunate I have a plane to b*tch about and I do. Sorry for the rant.

No doubt.. there is truth to that.

Sounds like the problems were minor, although maddening. The VOR's are troubling though, more troubleshooting?

I'm going through a rigging issue as well. Small adjustment, fly it and see what happens, small adjustment again, fly it and see what happens. The tough part is I really should just take a day off work and do it all at one time instead of nickle and diming it. I'm almost there, just a slight tendency to turn right on taxi. Flies straight.

Gary
 
Steve said:
For a 28 year old plane the repairs were warranted, imho. Especially if the plane spent any time non-hangared. Sounds like you've got a better plane out of the deal, despite the oversights and expense.

I agree with the aboe. I have flown the plane a lot over the last 4.5 years that I've owned it. I know its been hanagared since it was refurbished in 1998. But before that, who knows. I am confident its a better plane than before.

The first "annual" (condition inspection) on my plane by my mechanic isn't due 'til September and I'm already starting to get hives thinking about what he could find, although I've already had him look at it for various items since I brought it home, including the various Lycoming ADs which thus far are N/A. I don't expect any surprises, but then they wouldn't be surprises if I knew about them. I have an oil cooler bypass/restricted flow problem, too, and it seems to be an original design problem. May have to modify the separate cooler inlet to correct it. Talking to other owners it's a common issue.


What kind of plane is it? Even our "simple" airplanes need a lot of TLC, mostly due to their age.
 
Gary said:
Sounds like the problems were minor, although maddening. The VOR's are troubling though, more troubleshooting?{/quote}

The problems turned out to be minor, but I did not know that until the adjustments were made today and they worked. Flying it back, I didn't know what was up with the oil temp. It could have been anything from a catastrophic oil leak to what it was, a three minute fix. I feared that the new rigging just uncovered a bigger airframe problem, but that was unfounded as a very small adjustment to the trim tabs, on the first try, fixed it.

I'm going through a rigging issue as well. Small adjustment, fly it and see what happens, small adjustment again, fly it and see what happens. The tough part is I really should just take a day off work and do it all at one time instead of nickle and diming it. I'm almost there, just a slight tendency to turn right on taxi. Flies straight.

Hmm, that's interesting. Do you think there could be a tire/wheel, not a rigging issue?
 
It's an IAR 823, 1980 model (www.iar823.com). Doesn't every one have one? If you were coming to Gaston's you could get a ride! LOL:p

It's a low wing single engine retract with a Lycoming IO-540 built in Romania and imported here in the experimental category. The oil cooler inlet is on the cowl centerline below the prop, a big rectangular scoop, and at slow speeds (nose high) the airflow is poor, maybe even reversed, through the cooler. The large cutout for the retracting nose wheel doesn't help as it exposes a large portion of the firewall at slow speeds. At cruise the oil temp runs at the top of the green, manuevering flight has it in the bottom half of the yellow. CHT's are around 300°F on the analyzer when leaned rich of peak. I'm using just under a quart every 10 hrs which is reasonable to me for a big, old engine like this one.

I'm going to have the mechanic rework the baffling around the cooler before any major mods to the air scoop and cowling...as soon as he finishes rebuilding a Beech Baron. A nice NACA inlet like the induction air inlet on the side of the cowling would fix it I'm pretty sure. Being "experimental" I've got a lot of latitude.

Sorry for hijacking the thread...Tiger's are much more practical , but I'm enjoying my plane if for no other reason that to hear ATC ask "What kind of plane is an IR23?" :rofl:

Anthony said:
What kind of plane is it? Even our "simple" airplanes need a lot of TLC, mostly due to their age.
 
Steve said:
It's an IAR 823,


There's one based at my home airport, KFTG. Sorry to burst your bubble. :D

Other notables are a Focke Wulf 149D, a Mohawk observation plane and ATG Javelins as they are produced here.
 
Well, with only some 40 odd in the country I still feel special. 90 gallon tanks are nearly double the 149Ds' standard tanks and with nowhere near the 250 gph of the Mohawk with 500 gallon tanks (I just happen to have a copy of TM-55-1510-213-10, lol.) I'm content. The ATG, on the other hand, would make a nice touring sedan...if it makes it to production.

Anthony said:
There's one based at my home airport, KFTG. Sorry to burst your bubble. :D

Other notables are a Focke Wulf 149D, a Mohawk observation plane and ATG Javelins as they are produced here.
 
Steve said:
Well, with only some 40 odd in the country I still feel special. 90 gallon tanks are nearly double the 149Ds' standard tanks

And you should!!! I was just yanking your chain. Seems like a very cool, different and capable aircraft. I like different in many things, especially airplanes and would love to have a Marchetti SF260. I think that would be a nice second plane in a partnership. Not that I can actually afford the one I have. :rolleyes:

Speaking of different. I'm afraid I'm small potatoes out here. The first time I went to Centennial, KAPA for lunch a Supermarine Spitfire took the active and departed. A little while after that a MiG 15 departed, unrelated to the Spit. Lots of toys around. T-34's are or were, commonplace. ;)
 
SF260's are cool. They are a lot sleeker and about 3 times the cost of an IAR. Team America brought 3 to an airshow in south Louisiana many years ago. I got to visit with Chuck Lischer during the show as there was virtually no one attending (all the locals were at a sugar cane festival across town). He's now got a solo act.

http://users.innercite.com/chuck/f-260.htm

Stick with the Tiger. :)
 
Steve said:
SF260's are cool.
Stick with the Tiger. :)

I know, I know. But I must possess an SF260 in some shape or form. Desk model??? :)
 
I believe this thread is the best opportunity I have had in a long time to remind each and every one of ya'll that coming out of annual is the time you must do the very best preflight that you can do.

every mechanic is capibile of making a mistake, it is your responsibility to ensure the aircraft is safe for flight.

My post is no reflection on Anthony, but simply a piece of advice for all.
 
... I read all this, and I *still* want an airplane.

Well, Gordon Baxter wrote it when he bought his Mooney: "Hot damn! I done bought myself an airplane! ... I bought all that trouble and glory."

I am already looking for a resource for heavily-owner-assisted annuals; I am very technically and mechanically competent and I hope that, once I demonstrate that competence to an A&P-IA, that'll be at least a bit helpful.

Anthony, glad the plane's back.

And the VORs? I'm betting antenna cable cut or disconnected (IIRC, VORs can share antennas).
 
NC19143 said:
I believe this thread is the best opportunity I have had in a long time to remind each and every one of ya'll that coming out of annual is the time you must do the very best preflight that you can do.

every mechanic is capibile of making a mistake, it is your responsibility to ensure the aircraft is safe for flight.

My post is no reflection on Anthony, but simply a piece of advice for all.


Absolutely! Tom is spot on. I did a long preflight, but I did not catch the baffling sticking down under my cowling. Why? Its something that has never happened before, so I didn't look for it. Coming out of annual we need to look for the unusual and abnormal, not just the stuff in the checklist.

The other thing which I did do, is to stay in the pattern a few laps to see if everything works. My oil temp only went high after the engine was running for a long time, and hindsight, the oil temp never got critical, but was high enough for my engine analyzer to alert me. If you do have an engine analyzer its good to have these limits set BEFORE the issue is critical so you can deal with it before its an emergency.

As there was a lot of control surface and rigging work done, I expected a bit of trim issue. That was easy to deal with in the air and was my main concern. A right turning tendency was nothing compared to the oil temp.

Looking back, I was fortunate that all issues were easily fixed by minor adjustments. The plane flies great.

Thanks for reminding me of the preflight Tom. I have certainly learned a lesson here.
 
Anthony, glad the plane's back.

Thanks Spike. I have to remember that the plane has cost me very little in maintenance the past year. While I do have a mechanic look over it at oil changes, a lot of stuff can not be caught until the big teardown.

Its only money. :rolleyes:
 
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