PHX area radar - south of South mountain

[azpilot]

Does anyone know where PHX approach gets their radar feed from? If I am flying south of South mountain and I am low enough (i. e. Below the mountain top, how can they the get me on radar foe flight following?

 

[luvflyin]

I don't know exactly where they are but they are most likely getting feeds from multiple sites. It's called Fusion radar and is becoming the norm throughout the US. Feeds from multiple Radars are all combined to the controllers scope. There is a NEXRAD weather Radar at IWA and it wouldn't surprise me if there might be an ATC radar there also. That would account for low level coverage south of South Mountain as would an ARSR (center radar) that was somewhere not to far away to the south of PHX. Someone around here should have access to the exact locations of Radar antennas that feed PHX Approach.

 

[Timbeck2]

Luvflyin is right. If they can't get you on radar, they will tell you. Now only if someone could invent fusion radio.....

 

[azpilot]

If they have ATC radar at Gateway, then they should be able to see you on the South Side of South Mountain.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.362395...7731796&chart=121&zoom=5&fpl= KIWA VPGLX KGEU

The reason I am asking, is because I am planning a flight to KGEU in a bit. I want to try and get flight following. It's been a LONG time since I have done that, and to be honest, it makes me a little nervous. If they can't see me on radar, I would imagine they won't give me FF, so what's the point in asking?

 

[Velocity173]

If they have ATC radar at Gateway, then they should be able to see you on the South Side of South Mountain.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.36239532522818,-112.01973057731796&chart=121&zoom=5&fpl= KIWA VPGLX KGEU

The reason I am asking, is because I am planning a flight to KGEU in a bit. I want to try and get flight following. It's been a LONG time since I have done that, and to be honest, it makes me a little nervous. If they can't see me on radar, I would imagine they won't give me FF, so what's the point in asking?

No reason to be nervous about FF. Request it will IWA tower. If they have time to coordinate with PHX approach, they'll let you know if your requested altitude works or not. If they don't coordinate, then call PHX approach in the air for FF and they'll let you know if your altitude works or not. Just like anywhere else in the country, you won't really know if your altitude is under radar coverage until you check in with approach and ask.

I'd say as large as PHX is, they've got multiple overlapping radar feeds.

 

[kickbackkid]

Phoenix Approach gets their feed from several sites. We run a "fused" RADAR system on STARS terminal displays. There are sites at PHX, IWA, LUF, SDL, and PHX LRR. So we pretty much have RADAR down to the ground everywhere in the Valley.

That being said, FF would not just be predicated on RADAR alone. Much of it has to do with how busy the controller is, and whether or not you would impede on the IFR routes. The question is...do you know how to get into GEU without the aid of a controller and remaining clear of Class B if requested?

PM sent to you.

 

[azpilot]

Phoenix Approach gets their feed from several sites. We run a "fused" RADAR system on STARS terminal displays. There are sites at PHX, IWA, LUF, SDL, and PHX LRR. So we pretty much have RADAR down to the ground everywhere in the Valley.

That being said, FF would not just be predicated on RADAR alone. Much of it has to do with how busy the controller is, and whether or not you would impede on the IFR routes. The question is...do you know how to get into GEU without the aid of a controller and remaining clear of Class B if requested?

PM sent to you.

I have been in to Goodyear a few times. In the past I have used the TFD VOR to make sure I stay on the right track and clear of the Bravo shelf. Right now my plan is to make my normal flight like I am going to Goodyear, but stay to the East of PIR, follow the roads that track North and South, and stay to the West of the 101. If I do that, I'll stay out of the Goodyear Delta and I'll stay to the West of the Bravo shelf that dips down to 3000'. TPA at Glendale is only 2,100', so from the time I turn to track the TFD VOR, I'll make sure to be no higher than 2,500'.

This is the flight path I am thinking of.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.413470...KCHD 3317N11154W 3317N11214W 3322N11218W KGEU

 

[kickbackkid]

That's a perfect routing. In some cases in Class Bravo, FF is not worth it.

 

[azpilot]

Good to have the landmarks down ahead of time as there can be a lot of error tracking a radial from TFD that far out. If you have a smart phone, download the free FltplanGo app for a good moving map to make sure you don't bust airspace assuming you don't have any other GPS.

Good point about the radial from TFD. I hadn't thought of that. One degree off at 40 nm is about 0.7 nm.

I use Garmin Pilot on my Android tablet (and a Garmin GLO for external GPS) to help with the situational awareness. But I've had problems with those in the past, so I try not to completely rely on them.

(in case you're wondering, I've had the GLO overheat while sitting on the dash of the plane in the sun. It is black, and really soaks up the heat. Once it shuts off, the tablet reverts to its internal GPS, which isn't the most accurate.)

 

[CT4ME]

'Looks good to me. Let GYR know you'll be passing just to their East, with no intentions of entering their Delta, and they'll give you traffic info. The area south of PIR get busy sometimes. Monitor 122.85 west of Firebird lake and through the Gila Crossing. I go under the 3K floor of B in that area all the time. Just don't get East of the Tank farm.

 

[azpilot]

Another thought is if you're flying with a CAS airplane with a 430 in it, I think it depicts airspace boundaries and you can also enter a course "to" KGEU that will give you a track to follow as shown in your Skyvector Flight plan.

I am sure the 430 does a lot of really great stuff. I should learn how to use it!!!! ; - )

 

[Bobcat1]

I have been in to Goodyear a few times. In the past I have used the TFD VOR to make sure I stay on the right track and clear of the Bravo shelf. Right now my plan is to make my normal flight like I am going to Goodyear, but stay to the East of PIR, follow the roads that track North and South, and stay to the West of the 101. If I do that, I'll stay out of the Goodyear Delta and I'll stay to the West of the Bravo shelf that dips down to 3000'. TPA at Glendale is only 2,100', so from the time I turn to track the TFD VOR, I'll make sure to be no higher than 2,500'.

This is the flight path I am thinking of.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=33.41347060714929,-112.08690595184555&chart=121&zoom=4&fpl= KCHD 3317N11154W 3317N11214W 3322N11218W KGEU

So you've probably made the flight by now. But if you were to contact GYR, they'd let you transit their airspace at or above 2500'. That's pretty much the standard clearance that they've been handing out. They're pretty good about it.

 

[denverpilot]

Luvflyin is right. If they can't get you on radar, they will tell you. Now only if someone could invent fusion radio.....

They have. Trunking and simulcast systems, both analog and digital emissions type versions, work great in almost every other two-way biz.

I can drive entire State and never touch the two trunking radios and they'll set frequencies and switch sites automatically without any intervention at all, and the talk group/ channel will continue to work everywhere, on a properly designed trunked and linked system. The radio will even tell me when I'm out of range and when I'm back in. Whoever I'm talking to or monitoring will just be there on that channel/talk group.

Just doesn't work all that well with AM. Aviation, for both good and bad, technical and non-technical reasons, is stuck with an ancient voice modulation mode that doesn't lend itself well to such automated levels of capability.

 

[azpilot]

So you've probably made the flight by now. But if you were to contact GYR, they'd let you transit their airspace at or above 2500'. That's pretty much the standard clearance that they've been handing out. They're pretty good about it.

I did the flight this morning. I don't get out much!!!!

I took my Sister and her two boys from KCHD to KGEU. They had a young eagle's fly-in going on and we grabbed breakfast, and then flew back home. On the way there, we stayed South of South Mountain, and on the way home we flew between Squaw Peak and Camelback, then transitioned KFFZ back to Falcon.

My nephews are 7 and 9 years old. They did a pretty good job being quiet on the way there, but on the way home, let's just say I was very glad to have the pilot/crew isolate buttons.

Here is the cloud ahoy ground track for the flight there. I forgot to turn it back on for the flight home. This flight was all done by visual references.